57 replies to this topic

[Anri1]

Towers are the last line of defance, they work nice when built behinde the walls. And also the ithilian camp(secret lake/pool) is very useful with rangers. So it dependes how skillful u are in defance. It's much more difficult to play without towers and ithilien camps against expirianced players, in about 60% they can save you for some time

Edited by Anri1, 21 April 2009 - 10:34 AM.

[CIL]

Yoda was only being stubborn because he got EPIC pwnt by someone earlier, possibly Dunedain Lord, but don't hold it against me if I'm wrong with who owned him. Anyways, the rangers were, canonically, ZOMGWTFBBQ strong and second only to SOME Elves. This is because most of them were descended from pure Dunedain, plenty of which were nobles and knights in the King's service. The rangers mastered all conventional weapons and employed them with equal proficiency, including bow, axe, sword and spear. Some had relics from their families' pasts, including swords of Numenor, surpassed only by Elven master smiths such as Feanor and Celebrimbor. Rangers should be able to toggle their bows for a random melee weapon: either a sword, spear or axe. I also believe the Riders need a toggle or HUGE attack increase. They do hardly any damage to Uruks, who cost half as much, even when the riders are upgraded and 9 levels higher. An upgrade for a toggle might also be worthwhile but isn't necessary.

I would suggest giving the rangers a toggle, health increase and keeping longshot, letting them keep the same damage as well as making them able to receive melee upgrades, keep the same price, but reducing the size of their battalions by 1 or 2 soldiers, as there were not many and they tended to travel alone or in small groups.

Edited by CIL, 04 May 2009 - 08:03 AM.

[Anri1]

Agree with you in all points, except the batalion sizes. if the size reduses to 1-2 soldies they would be very expensive and slow to build. Maybe than the prise for one duanadain ranger/mounted ranger could be redused to 100-200 and their building speed should be encrised. Anyway in my opinion the sizes of batalions should stay the same, 5 men isn't a big company.

Respect to you CIL

[Dunedain Lord]

Yoda was only being stubborn because he got EPIC pwnt by someone earlier, possibly Dunedain Lord, but don't hold it against me if I'm wrong with who owned him. Anyways, the rangers were, canonically, ZOMGWTFBBQ strong and second only to SOME Elves. This is because most of them were descended from pure Dunedain, plenty of which were nobles and knights in the King's service. The rangers mastered all conventional weapons and employed them with equal proficiency, including bow, axe, sword and spear. Some had relics from their families' pasts, including swords of Numenor, surpassed only by Elven master smiths such as Feanor and Celebrimbor. Rangers should be able to toggle their bows for a random melee weapon: either a sword, spear or axe. I also believe the Riders need a toggle or HUGE attack increase. They do hardly any damage to Uruks, who cost half as much, even when the riders are upgraded and 9 levels higher. An upgrade for a toggle might also be worthwhile but isn't necessary.

I would suggest giving the rangers a toggle, health increase and keeping longshot, letting them keep the same damage as well as making them able to receive melee upgrades, keep the same price, but reducing the size of their battalions by 1 or 2 soldiers, as there were not many and they tended to travel alone or in small groups.

we ended with a draw. Yoda had to leave earlier.
and if yoda knew what was coming after he thought it'd be easy since he beat me like 10 times prior, he prob. would've won.
no toggle. Only elite swords i actually like to see are basic dunedain swords, elven swords, and maybe fornost bladebearers.

[Devon]

Yoda was only being stubborn because he got EPIC pwnt by someone earlier, possibly Dunedain Lord, but don't hold it against me if I'm wrong with who owned him. Anyways, the rangers were, canonically, ZOMGWTFBBQ strong and second only to SOME Elves. This is because most of them were descended from pure Dunedain, plenty of which were nobles and knights in the King's service. The rangers mastered all conventional weapons and employed them with equal proficiency, including bow, axe, sword and spear. Some had relics from their families' pasts, including swords of Numenor, surpassed only by Elven master smiths such as Feanor and Celebrimbor. Rangers should be able to toggle their bows for a random melee weapon: either a sword, spear or axe. I also believe the Riders need a toggle or HUGE attack increase. They do hardly any damage to Uruks, who cost half as much, even when the riders are upgraded and 9 levels higher. An upgrade for a toggle might also be worthwhile but isn't necessary.

I would suggest giving the rangers a toggle, health increase and keeping longshot, letting them keep the same damage as well as making them able to receive melee upgrades, keep the same price, but reducing the size of their battalions by 1 or 2 soldiers, as there were not many and they tended to travel alone or in small groups.

Well aren't we a little high and noble. Before you start dissing my comments, maybe you should actually test what I've said?

I'm not only being stubborn because I lost, you arrogant bastard I'm saying they need a major price increase or a major nerf because at the moment, they are quite outrageous for their price. I really don't give a damn what you have to say about the lore. They're amazingly overpowered at the moment, and would be even more so if you gave them a toggle.

[CIL]

Yes toggle. The Dunedain were amongst the most elite swordsmen in Arda. They were descended from the most pure of Dunedain lines and were talented in ALL types of weapons. Your side of the argument has presented no reason why there should be no rangers with swords and bows toggled, whereas my side has presented a canonical side.

If no toggle, the Dunedain rangers' mastery of all weapons should be represented in a new unit that can toggle ranged and melee.

[Devon]

The hell with cannon My post was that they were overpowered, which you tried to shoot down because you thought I was just being a crying little prick who couldn't stand to lose a game. If you them a toggle, they better cost around the 750-1000 level, which was all I was saying in the first place, until you jumped on me.

[Dunedain Lord]

to hell with the toggle
Who would use stealthed rangers meant to ambush in the game anyway with swords? Only an idiot.
besides, adding the toggle would have no affect if u played me yoda. I woudl never use swords against a mumak....

[Devon]

I don't always play harad, or always use mumaks!


They would still be op, regardless of how they affected one strategy in particular.

[dojob]

How are they OP anyway?

[Anri1]

Firstable Dunadain Rangers are not OP at all in comperison to Elven Archers.
Seccontable "Who would use stealthed rangers meant to ambush in the game anyway with swords? Only an idiot."(That's offence isn't it? )
I'd use Dunadain Rangers with swords in middle-late game, becouse they would be much better infantry than Arnor soldiers. They would be useble against pikes and infantry and would not die fast fighting against simular orks, goblins, even would be good against Uruks. Dunadain Rangers were weapon masters (the most powerful swordsmen in Middle-Earth actualy, and the most powerful archers of Men).

And also the poll is now on the side of those who want a toogle to be in game.
Those who are against have only 6 votes of 18 (1 was null), so that must mean something

Edited by Anri1, 05 May 2009 - 01:25 PM.

[Devon]

They're just too strong for their cost, imo. They also build fairly quickly, and I think the camp only costs 300? (yes, I know there's a 750 upgrade, but once you get that, you can easily spam massive amounts.

[dojob]

You mean they do too much damage or u can't kill them? Your mumakil walked over them just fine the last time I checked

[Dalf32]

lol, mumakil walk over everything just fine. some things a little too well...

[Devon]

They have too much health Mumakil walk over everything fine. The damage is borderline.

[dojob]

Ok, if it's that bad then we can just nerf their armor a bit (if it's really necessary; I don't think 1 game is enough to tell) so giving them a toggle won't be that bad, and maybe increase their training time as well.

Closing in with melee wouldn't be a good idea because of their armor anyway, but it would still be cool and true to lore so I don't think it would completely break rangers as a unit and make them uncounterable.

Edited by dojob, 06 May 2009 - 12:27 AM.

[Dunedain Lord]

1st of all, the toggle is useless b/c with the current d-ranger, they are obliterated by a single horde of goblins/orcs that is right next to them.
For some reason, they have a severe disadvantage vs. melee. Two hits by a basic swordsmen and one is down. Basically, the toggle epic fails already.

[CIL]

The point of giving the rangers damage would be to have them be berserkers: high damage, low armor, respectable health and fast moving. Anyways, the toggle would be ineffective against Mumaks, true, but would be effective against other infantry. The rangers need to be buffed in general. Also, they should not be made to be ONLY stealthy ambush units. The reason for this has been given.

Anyways, as it stands, the Dunedain Rangers are nowhere near OP. Yoda did point out a good thing, though. They do have a fast build time. Allow me to alter my earlier suggestion to this:
400 health
Toggle with high damage melee
Keeps longshot
Can get upgrades
Raise cost to 550 each 6
Build time of 30-45 seconds per battalion

Edited by CIL, 06 May 2009 - 05:43 AM.

[Anri1]

Totaly agree with CIL, Dunadain Rangers must not be the archers with poor health that can be killed by few goblins. And if the cost and building time rises, they won't spam anyone.

I said it before and say again: 43 Dunadains, Elladan and Ellrohir came to Pelenor fields not to make ambushes(there were no trees anyway on Pelenor fields) . Dunadains had swords, bows and spears. And they hardly could use the bows only in such a big battle. Also, most of them survived. So that must mean something.

Edited by Anri1, 06 May 2009 - 08:10 AM.

[Devon]

1st of all, the toggle is useless b/c with the current d-ranger, they are obliterated by a single horde of goblins/orcs that is right next to them.
For some reason, they have a severe disadvantage vs. melee. Two hits by a basic swordsmen and one is down. Basically, the toggle epic fails already.

They're way stronger than any other archers to melee, or at least that's how it seems when I get a horde of orcs or soldiers or whatever next to them.


If they have a toggle I'd say 600 at least CIL. I'd be more in favor of giving the mounted ones a toggle and just keeping the normal ones ranged though.