461 replies to this topic

[Lauri]

I tend to agree with mike on the issues. It would be nice to see different cultures thrown up against each other. I guess we'll have to figure out what two factions to start with. If it won't be Sparta and Athens, we shoulde decide if we want to make a combination of them into a unified Greece, or simply having only one of them. I'd probably vote for unified, and we can always make one more dominant, through in-game choice of course.


About Qin, I'm clueless really. I had a feeling they were chinese, but still I wanted samurais, but they're japanese and quite AD, so it's not going to happen, but still

[Kwen]

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to unify Greece. Saves work and adds more variety at the same time. Win win, right?

[mike_]

I'm proposing a unified Greek faction, yes. Against a Qin or Han Dynasty faction.

They'd be using a wide variety of polearms, repeating crossbows, maybe chariots... actually, just read this article for all of what I've assembled on both Greeks and Qin/Han Dynasty warriors

[Lauri]

Yep. Not to mention that giving a single faction different types of gameplay is win and better than having to split it up, it's pretty much tripple win right there!
Besides, how much would buildings differ from Athens to Greece? And style on armour and weapons would probably be similar..

[Kwen]

Yeah, like he said. Greece is Greece, their architecture was about the same, same with their soldiers and armor styles.

[Lauri]

I vote on the Han Solo Dynasty then!

[mike_]

Right. I'll try to come up with something tomorrow.

What do you guys think about heroes? I think it'd be very cool to have actual historical figures fulfill those roles (while it would be anachronistic, Rule of Cool prevails!). For example, Greece would have: Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Xenophon, Themistocles and maybe some others. China would have Qin Shin Huang, Lu Bu, and a few others that I can dig up (I can't remember his name, but one general revolutionized the repeating crossbow - he could be useful).

I wouldn't make them much stronger than normal units, but leadership wise they should be AMAZING.

[Gfire]

Yeah a hero could be around the strength of one horde combat-wise. Maybe less with the BFME2 size of hordes.

Looks like you guys have made some progress... I'm certainly excited for a Chinese faction. To generalize, I think we can call the Factions Greece and China? In Theory China could represent multiple dynasties, similar to how Greece represents different city-states (although they coexisted while there was only one dynasty in China.) Not sure exactly how wide the timeframe is, but for the sake of adding what we want, it could span quite some time like Age of Empires II does.

We could always have Samurai or other cool units which don't really fit as Easter Eggs, I guess.

I'll offer my services in 2d art... Which, for simplicity and ease, would probably mean screenshots for a base on everything. Certainly something I'm willing to throw time away at.

Love the direction this is going. Just a pretty general Ancient Civilization mod. I'd love to see Egypt eventually.

[Kwen]

So who is involved so far?

Gfire
Matias (sorta)
Lauri
mike_

And myself.

[Gfire]

Spartan seems to have shown interest, not sure about actual participation.

[Kwen]

I don't think he was serious.

[_Haldir_]

This sounds really interesting, i hope it goes somewhere

Just one thought: I find it a little random that you'd have a Greek faction and a Qin/Han/Chinese faction, especially seeing as they were never at war within that period (or ever as far as i know). What about a Persian or Indian faction instead? You could base the mod on the Greco-Persian wars, which could give you a lot of history to play with. You could use mumak anims for a war elephant, or the battle wagon for a cool chariot type thing.

And perhaps a mini-faction type thing would be interesting, with Athens, Sparta or Macedon being cultures that you would choose. I think it would be interesting if you could only choose one mini-faction per game too, which would have their own heroes (eg Alexander the Great, Leonidas, Themistocles), units and advantages/disadvantages.

I'd also love to see the Wonders of the World incorporated somehow. You could make them a citadel upgrade type thing, or similar to the AoE "build the wonder and win once the time runs out" concept. You could make the wonder give you huge bonuses once you've completed it, but it would take a long long time to build. Persia could have a Hanging Gardens structure, whereas Greece would have the temple of Zeus..

I dunno, just some ideas for thought

[Lauri]

Well I kinda like the idea of being a little random factions around the globe. And I'm pretty sure they never even heard about eachother

Don't really know about the wonder... The good thing about it was that you sent more and more villagers to build it faster, while in BFME2 you can't do that.. Besides, despite AoE2, how many wonders were buildt during a battle, near the battlefield?

[Mathijs]

Guys, guys! Have you lost your collective modder's head?

I disagree fundamentally with starting out with these two completely different factions. Why? Two reasons, both of which I'm sure you will admit to if you think for a second.

One: Art. We, after all these years, should be very well aware of the sheer amount of assets required to properly do one faction. Do you really want to start out with the idea of doing two completely different kinds of architecture, infantry, textures, et cetera? Really? Because I sure as hell don't think that's a good idea at all. Lauri, do you want to model all of that? Do you think it would ever be completed that way?

Two: There is no need to get any Qin involved to make this mod interesting. We could instead focus on covering the Peloponessian War as initially proposed by Mike before he lost his mind and gave in to fairytales and concepts that weigh monstrously upon our artistic backs. Sparta and Athens were two different cultures, founded on different philosophies and with different strenghts and weaknesses. For example, Sparta did not build any walls, as far as I know. I think that by giving these two factions proper research and balancing, they could make for an interesting match-up and actually be completed sometime within the next decade.

I rest my case, but am willing to argue if you really think I'm dead wrong.

[mike_]

I agree with Mathijs.

[Lauri]

I do aswell... Ideas always sound great when we think about them, but when we think them through, it's harsher in reality
Besides, I think it's good to keep it at even one faction, for starters. TDH and TEA just adds one faction, and look how long that took..

Ah it's good to have a realist among us..

[Gfire]

Yeah, I could go either way. Haha, we should think through our decisions though.

I do feel more connection to the Sparta/Athens concept.

[Lauri]

Me to, seeing as there wouldn't be samurais anyways

But yeah, before starting we should get a tech-tree or something up, one for sparta and one for athens, and just see what happens..

[Mathijs]

Mike will work on that tonight, I believe. He's pretty good at that.

[Gfire]

It's sort of my specialty as well. Perhaps I'll whip up one of my own and we can compare, combine, add, subtract, etc.