80 replies to this topic

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

If RG and RB are willing to put the time in, I think it is time for SEEs Rebirth! Starting anew!

[Ridder Geel]

I will be entirely honest with you... We wont be doing this in this year, first we would like to get a Release of the RC Mod out to the public, its been quite a while. After that we will start on fixing this, better late then never I always say

[Nazgûl]

The exact problems are described pretty cleary I think...

1) The progress of SEE depends entierly upon getting WB to work with SEE assets. This is because without it, we can't set up the new factions, their bases and their basic AI... and I rather not revert back to vanilla game faction setups.

2) I am a pretty busy man IRL, even though you might not think so because I'm logged in so often (I am surrounded by computers, lol), with many other projects such as running two websites with thousands of users, managing work as head of security, and organizing the community at home, as president of 80 households. Thus it's very hard to find time to set up a speedy progress, organize team efforts and preferably get back into coding myself as well. Getting to where we are now has been a major struggle, with team members coming and going, and therefore we have a history of modding since 2006 by now - without getting further than this =p

"My emotions" are not a problem. Reality is. I often get to hear, "don't let your emotions"... and yeah I know I am a man known for a pretty clear attachment to my emotions in many situations. And off course I find it somewhat daunting that this hobby ran into such a bitter end, after all the efforts not to. It would be almost disrespectful to all that contributed not to be =p But as far beeing emotional, I wouldn't say I'm in any state of uncontrollable outbursts This is simply a harsh reality, that we are pendant on a solution to go on. Nothing more, nothing less...

And yes, as it seems, I have the Ridder brothers, and possibly even Rad to help with a fresh start. But this would mean a long journey with slow progress to even get to this point. And this time, I wouldn't be a Coder of importance, not even from the start, as all major coding would be done by them, which would make me feel even less like it's "my" mod anylonger, even though I'd administrate all work and assets... The positive side to this though, is naturally that we could do eveything in a better organized way, with meticilous notes on all changes, and frequent tests to obtain maximum stability. I'm all for that, I'm just not so sure we'd all have the time and energy to embark on such a journey. It would be like having Frodo start all over from the Shire, when he reached the gates of Mordor ;p A huge task indeed, maybe not to others, but to me it is...

We'll see what happens when I finish discussions with the current team.

Edited by Nazgûl, 22 November 2010 - 12:03 PM.

[KingElessar2384]

Not sure if this even applies to what the current problem is but here:
http://www.the3rdage...?apage=289#page
It's an article that Sul wrote on in-depth AI coding. Maybe it will lighten things up Idk

[Ridder Blauw]

.... We knew that exsisted But we arent even at a stage that is close enough to think about that. As far as Im concerned were at 0% of the mods completion coding wise.

[NewErr]

I see a massive amount of teamwork here.

I'm 100% sure SEE won't die now and here . The problems will be solved and the mod will go on .

[Nazgûl]

Ooooh I feel a precense I haven't felt in...
Seriously, nice to see you here Val. An excellent modeler you are... Perhaps you might be of help some day, if we should embark on this

[Phil]

I know I don't really have a place here advising you on what to do or not to do, but I discovered this topic last night and just need to voice my opinion:
As annoying as coding bugs in BFME modding are (and I know from experience how annoying they can be), there are no "irreversible bugs". While finding the bug might be a long, tedious and mind-wrecking task, everything can be fixed in BFME coding. I'd think twice, or a hundred times even, before re-starting or even quitting the mod just because of some coding bug that crashes WB. Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement. Imagine if the Windows team at Microsoft encountered a bug that crashes the Windows startup process - they sure as hell won't re-code Windows, but spend day and night looking for and fixing the problem.

I'd focus my effort on finding and fixing the bug that crashes WB, that's unavoidable. Then again, who says it wouldn't happen again at some point after you've started from scratch? All you can do is learn from the situation and a) test often b) use source code management tools like SVN so you can easily roll back every file to an earlier state that worked. Restarting the whole project from scratch just sound like an epic waste of time to me.

[Mathijs]

I totally agree, but I didn't want to be the first one to post this. Starting over is a rediculous idea. Getting assets in the BFME2 WB is not a difficult thing to do. For starters, PROPERLY explain here how you went around attempting to get them in, which something you should have done before making a dramatic topic like this, we have plenty of experienced people here and plenty of different subforums all dedicated to fixing issues. Clearly you are either doing something wrong, or there is something in your code that prevents it. Find what that is. Try recompiling all of the code step by step, until you encounter the bug again. It'll be tedious, but NOT as tedious as starting 4 years of work over again.

I am by no means a (capable) coder, but a solution should be reachable by making a new mod folder, and one by one add the contents of the mod (with a continously updated asset.dat) and with every addition, try to get it to work in WB. Chances are it will work most of the time until you encounter what it is that's preventing everything from working. Then, we can help figuring out what that is. You need to pinpoint the issue.

See, you haven't clearly explained what the actual issue is. You have only posted a bunch of dramatized, vague descriptions of what's wrong, but not the actual technical specifications, both of what you're trying to do, how you're doing it, and what keeps going wrong. Do that first, before making some topic where there's 20 people who don't know what the hell's really going on, posting LotR quotes in SEE context and crying their little hearts dry. Too much drama, too little problem-solving. The community's skills don't start and end with Knights Blue and Yellow, you know. And if you can't do that, get them to do it.

Or you could get mad at me, as usual.

Edited by Matias, 22 November 2010 - 04:31 PM.

[Nazgûl]

...You have only posted a bunch of dramatized, vague descriptions of what's wrong, but not the actual technical specifications, both of what you're trying to do, how you're doing it, and what keeps going wrong. Do that first, before making some topic where there's 20 people who don't know what the hell's really going on, posting LotR quotes in SEE context and crying their little hearts dry. Too much drama, too little problem-solving. The community's skills don't start and end with Knights Blue and Yellow, you know. And if you can't do that, get them to do it.

Or you could get mad at me, as usual.

I can't help what others post? Don't blame me for any drama. We have a problem with SEE, and we can't fix it - that's just what I posted, in a more explainatory fashion that you call emotional. If we COULD fix it, we would. I'm not an imbecill you know... I HAVE tried, for years I'm not crying for help. I'm making a statement that a 4 yo project has a problem that I can't fix and netiher RG, RB, nor Sûl since he's gone.... Not sure what will happen, but I don't have high hopes. If you don't wanna read about the "drama", then don't? Noone forces you, you know Perhaps T3A should remove SEE from the T3A main page news as well, so any further news won't upset anyone.

[Mathijs]

SEE is down, maybe for good. But hey, its just a game. Life goes on, I guess... *sobs*

If you can't see how your entire use of language and the way you create a certain mood and setting with the words you choose make this topic totally unconstructive and over-the-top, then that's no fault of mine.

But please, ignore the actual points Phil and I made. It's your mod, after all. I guess I'm not quite at the right level to make suggestions directly to you. Maybe you should give me some minor issues to fix first.

You can't fix the problem, but we can, together. I'm quite sure people will help you out to fix it, if you would POST WHAT EXACTLY IS THE PROBLEM and show us how you have tried to fix it.

Anyway, I'm done. You can take my suggestions for what they are. I have a functional mod to work on with a team of equals.

Edited by Matias, 22 November 2010 - 05:28 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Lol well I'm happy for you =) God speed

[Mathijs]

I'm happy for the fans you're letting down because of your stupid pride.

[Ridder Blauw]

Can't we just all shut up! This is gonna become a useless discussion if you continue!

[Kwen]

Do you realize what you're doing here?

What would you say if you (hypothetically) actually decided to explain the problem and ask the COMMUNITY to help you debug your problem, and it succeeded.

You'd be pretty thrilled right?

Well this way, you're going to get nothing.

@Blauw, it's already useless, what is being accomplished here?

Edited by Kwen, 22 November 2010 - 05:41 PM.

[Nazgûl]

I'm happy for the fans you're letting down because of your stupid pride.

???

Do you realize what you're doing here?

What would you say if you (hypothetically) actually decided to explain the problem and ask the COMMUNITY to help you debug your problem, and it succeeded.

You'd be pretty thrilled right?

Well this way, you're going to get nothing.

Eeeh what? I'm not asking for help? I was posting a status.. and I might have dramatized it a bit, cause it is somewhat dramatical, to fail on a 4 yo project. Those who are offended in any way, just dont go here? Just as I dont read Matias posts mostly, that are often very sarcastic and insulting sometimes. I don't see what the fuzz is all about, other than the fact that Matias and I can't stand eachother, but most old members know that. Matias insult me and the team, but noone reacts to that? As soon as I have an opinion or make a statement, the God o' mighty Matias has always right? I find that daunting and somewhat amazing. Mostly laughable though...

Don't worry. I don't need any of you to help me and I wasnt asking for it. I WAS POSTING FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT CARE - which I guess might be a few, after having 1,4 million hits on the webiste, lol. Btw, you offered to help with Rohan models Kwen, and I assume that's scrapped now. No worries, as we don't even know if we'll go on and I wouldnt wanna have anyone work with me if it's uncomfortable =)

Edited by Nazgûl, 22 November 2010 - 05:48 PM.

[mike_]

My god you completely missed the point.

[Nazgûl]

Ooh btw... the me "not explaing the problem in detail", is here! Not enough details perhaps, but a problem that was based in 2008 and that neither me, nor RG, RB or Sûl could solve does qualify as irreversable to me. I don't doubt that it could be solved and that the bugs could be found, but it would require time and motivation that noone of us has got. I doubt any other, outside SEE would wanna bother too, especielly after 4-5 tried and quit pretty fast. SEE is a mess of complex codes and neither the campaign runs, nor the WotR mode, or the WB, so yeah... Starting over might be the only way, even though I don't really find the task appealing

Edited by Nazgûl, 22 November 2010 - 05:59 PM.
broken keyboard