84 replies to this topic

[X1Destroy]

Rather than Epsilon, IMO China is the most OP faction as of now.

The only way to stop them is to rush and rush. Your Tier 3 tech tree is nearly trash agaisnt them.

EMP, EMP and radiation everywhere. If i didn't got myself some cyborgs sneaking and nuking, I would have never won.

Edited by X1Destroy, 19 December 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[Petya]

Epsilon sub-factions aren't overpowered, you just don't know how to counter them.

[Black/Brunez]

Unless there aren't any, because 75% of the staff are Epsilon fans, which would make sense as to why they're op in the first place. >:L

 

Not even close. Most of the staff guys are neutral about factions. The only folks who seen to be attached for a faction most of the games are Bolt (LC), Mev (Psy Corps) and me (Euro), but everything is for personal preference, not a "HUE I PLAY WITH THEM BECOZ THEM OP" shit which seens you are ignorantly implying

 

 

 

 

Psy Corps OP vs Russia? Russia is one of the best factions to fight Psy Corps because of their Tesla units.

And the HQ bitching again? -_-*

 

With good reason ofc

 

Yeah my Tesla units work real well when the opponent captures them and they destroy each other -,-

 

 

1) Man, a SINGLE shot from a Tesla Cruiser or Volkov BOOM, a Mastermind lost every single unit it was controling. You suck at countering them, because you are simply trowing mindless unitball and, if they fail or someone simply counter you, keep whinning and doing comments like this:

I think the important thing you missed is that they're overpowered. Seems fairly important to me I would think.

 

 

simply pitful.

 

 

2) Do not forget that mev is one of the best players around and dedicated a lot of time playing with PsyCorps. You will not lose because PsyCorps is OP, but you don´t have the same skill level as mevitar.

 

 

EA: Attack your tanks with Siegfied, since he can attack units that are on higher elevation levels than he is. Add Thors and your Wolfhounds wouldn't be able to come near.

SCUDs

 

You never played vs Euro, right?

Edited by Black/Brunez, 21 December 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[mevitar]

because 75% of the staff are Epsilon fans

And in another thread you were accusing us of making assumptions about other people without really knowing anything about them...

Edited by mevitar, 19 December 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[Martinoz]

Unless there aren't any, because 75% of the staff are Epsilon fans, which would make sense as to why they're op in the first place. >:L

 

I think you simply suck that you must whine about stuff being OP for lame excuses.

[Protozoan]

iowdhwoauidghla;gihagoi'weht[0 that's alright guys, don't read my actual points describing why I think they're overpowered! Nah, that's cool, instead, hey, why don't you read everything else BUT that? That'a boy!

 

I give up, you're not listening, so I'm going to use a different faction when it comes to Headquarters & PsiCorps, I don't know what yet, but Russia doesn't cut it, don't give me the bullshit that I can't counter it properly, I've heard enough. And then I'm going to beat them with this faction, over & over again until I get my point across. Then I'll use Russia for anything else.

[Petya]

RTS games aren't about mindless attacks. If you really want to win by using one type of unit, then play RA3.

 

And others are right. All of you expected that you'll learn to play within 2-3 weeks. No. You need at least 2 months to be able to use a single faction properly ofc, there are exceptions if you learn quickly. To tell the truth you are using very basic strategies, which aren't strategies really and you are wondering why you lost. Not because the sub-faction is overpowered, but because you can't play properly yet.

[Protozoan]

RTS games aren't about mindless attacks. If you really want to win by using one type of unit, then play RA3.

 

And others are right. All of you expected that you'll learn to play within 2-3 weeks. No. You need at least 2 months to be able to use a single faction properly ofc, there are exceptions if you learn quickly. To tell the truth you are using very basic strategies, which aren't strategies really and you are wondering why you lost. Not because the sub-faction is overpowered, but because you can't play properly yet.

 

Mindless attacks, rite, that's what I have been doing this whole time.

 

I can't play properly but somehow have managed to defeat lovalmidas, Doomhammer, mevitar & Graion, 'cause damn, if I don't know how to play properly, then I can't imagine what those guys are doing wrong.

[Protozoan]

Alright, I'll accept that I'm wrong, and that I was simply beaten by someone who is a superior player, and have mastered these factions long before me.

 

Sorry that I caused such a stir with some of the MO staff members, I don't like to admit I'm wrong about something sometimes and just continue to argue.

[lovalmidas]

Mindless attacks, rite, that's what I have been doing this whole time.
 
I can't play properly but somehow have managed to defeat lovalmidas, Doomhammer, mevitar & Graion, 'cause damn, if I don't know how to play properly, then I can't imagine what those guys are doing wrong.

I was careless, but still, you are decent player. I'm going to read through your points and see I can think of a counter. (I didn't read before because of the Great Wall of text)

[Allied Commander ???]

really, if your AI enemy's building space is small and narrow, they will be DOOMED easily, they just keep on training infantries and built plenty of buildings(x1 barracks, x1reactor or power plant, then no more) Example map: Couplet

 

 

 

Note: if u use super weapons on them, they will start to panic then will rebuild their base properly back 

Edited by Allied Commander ???, 20 December 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[Traumaticid]

I never played with real people before (I even evaded when playing other games which requires me to fight with someone and not AI), cus Imma chicken

 

I mostly would join the fight if I'm cooperating with someone else, and my duty is as support/defense.

 

For me, the tactics/strategies would be depends on micromanaging skill, alertness level, and full knowledge about own/opposing faction.

So the strategies itself is based on individuals on how well they can play the game. Means, player A would have different strategies compared to player B, even tho the faction/map used are the same, and either one might not be able to accept the other's strategies because their playing experiences are different.

 

If how these strategies work like "strategy A > strategy B [same factors], strategy A = more experienced player" rather than "strategy A = strategy B [same factors], each strategy can be carried out by anyone", then the ones with more experience with the game will almost always have higher chance to win, unless unlucky factors kicking in (map/position factor...).

 

But these are just my opinions...

[lovalmidas]

Well, I suppose for the purpose of this thread, we include both tactical shenanigans and strategic play as 'strategy'. WW didn't really admit that their Real-Time Strategy is quite more tactical than strategy.

I agree that experience with the game usually gets to win a lot, because such people are much faster in thinking up counterstrategies, and are generally quite better in tactical microing. During our testing phases we have sort of verified that each individual unit, as well as some combinations, is counterable by any subfaction. Still, because each subfaction has its own... characteristics, certain units work better then others.

Since earlier on, we had some 'discussion' on Russia vs PsiCorps / Headquarters, I thought I can share some thoughts too. Starting with PsiCorps:

Russia vs PsiCorps

Russian strategies

Generic:
- Rule the air! PsiCorps are great at map control, with Mind Control and amphibious focuses. But PsiCorps have a lousy airforce (yay Invader). PsiCorps will most likely pwn the waters late-game anyway, and their only amphibious AA is Libra. Just don't get ambushed by Piranhas.
- The cream of the PsiCorps is at the Tier 3 level. Make the Pandora Hub a priority target. Or better, prevention is cure.
- Note that Russia can be sneaky too. After all, Yuri was once there. Use your Stalins Fist and Rhino drops to sneak up on those sneaky bastards!

T1:
Massed Tsivils can do decent against Brutes with a small amount of micro. You don't need a lot of them since the PsiCorp airforce is minimal.
Rhino rush won't do well if your enemy has scouted you; Archers are very cost-effective tank killers.
Terror Drones against Driller rushes. You might want some detectors to alert you if your enemy knows how to distract drones (it is good against Shadow Ring too).

T2:
Borillo and Ivan rushes are risky but can offer great rewards if you can delay PC's build to Tier 3. Stop once you see a Pandora Hub
You might want to get to Tier 3 quickly.

T3:
Tank Drop immediately followed by an Iron Curtain works wonders.
Tesla Cruisers, Volkov and charged Tesla Coils are great for defence against Mind Control. 2 Tesla Cruisers for every Mastermind or Epsilon Elite, no less.
SCUDs only against units of lesser or distracted players, otherwise they are solely for siege.
No one can really stop Wolfhound spam, like... really. Add a Kirov or two to soak up damage from Gehennas of a panicking player.

vs Brute spam: Desolators, massed Pyros, Drones, Volkov and Chitzkoi, Wolfhounds

vs Masterminds: Wolfhounds, Volkov, Flak-Trooper spam (works well against a Mastermind-Magnetron combo too; PsiCorps does not have a subfaction-specific infantry killer). Using Tesla Cruisers is risky since they can EMP each other.

vs Libra: (on land) Drone spam (about 1.5 for every Libra/Libra Clone, microing Libra to target different Drones at once is impossibru), Chitzkoi, (on water) Wolfhound spam, Borillo, if you want to you can annoy her with SCUDs (Y U SO ANNOYING )

vs an amphibious strike force of Maruaders, Magnetrons, Elites and Libra: Wolfhound spam (watch out for any possible Piranhas), (on land) Drone spam (despite its railgun, Maruaders usually have difficulty getting two fast drones in its line of fire unless their commander is superb at micro. Also, they don't have an amphibious repair vehicle. Use Chitzkoi at your own risk (parasites die on water). ), SCUDs and Hammer Turrets if you are desperate.

vs Gehennas: SCUDs (better range, they can't harm you, and even if the enemy micros them, that already means he can't micro something else), any land-based unit (depending on its escorts). For every Gehenna, 3-4 Wolfhounds can already obsolete it. And Wolfhounds can deal with other threats too.

-----------------
PsiCorps strategies:

Generic:
- Rule the waves. Your subfaction is dedicated to the waters. You have an amphibious tank, an amphibious siege engine, amphibious infantries(T1: dog, T2: Dunerider, T3: Elites), and an amphibious heroine. You just lack an amphibious MCV.
- Get your Tier 3 up quickly. Meanwhile you can work on killing the enemy's Tier 3. or Tier 2, depending on how well you like Borillos.
- Force Russia to invest in anti-air with your Invaders. You have little airforce and you can't MC an airforce, and a good enemy knows this. Annoy him anyway.
- Get map control. Many of your units are faster and even amphibious, great for interception. This way you can also hinder Russia's mobility.
- Use your Libra Clones and Shadow Ring to maximize Libra to the fullest. She is the best all-round heroine against land, water and air, and has good mobility, range and decent firepower. It is almost like Yuri made the entire subfaction her support.
- Do not ever let Russia amass a large army! Russia and China love big armies, and you don't have to give them what they love. MAKE THEM HATE YOU MUAHAHAHAHA.

T1:
Archers are great for anti-tank defence, and can do slightly decent against Drones too.
You might want to get to T3 quickly.

T2:
Brute spam is an option - you can rush them or defend against typical Soviet rushes.
Dogs / Dunerider against the occasional Ivan.
You might want to get to T3 quickly.

T3:
Upgrade your Pandora Hub, and defend it.
Libra, go go go, Libra. Meanwhile, Cloning Vats.
Get Epsilon Elites once Cloning Vats is done.

vs Tank Drop: Epsilon Elites, Brutes if you are out-teched. Try to spot where the Tank Drop will land so you do not need to spend too much on defence. Get three (or more) elites there quickly and prepare to wall up structures if your enemy is prepared to do a Iron Curtain combo.

vs any Russian Navy: Epsilon Elites, Libra, (don't waste your fragile navy if you got better amphibious units around )

vs Wolfhound Spam: Prevention is the key. Your game is pretty much over if your enemy masses more than 25 of these, since they can obsolete Gehennas by shooting their aircraft in one go. But Wolfhounds are expensive and slow, so you have plenty of time. Otherwise, try to maximize your chances with Gattling Cannons and Archers (Archers are good but even slow Wolfhounds outrun them). Since your enemy can build SCUDs and Pyros for those, you are screwed anyway.

vs Volkov: Libra has greater range and is faster, Magnetron can immobilize him, Invaders, Brute spam (only when immobilized). Don't send vehicles against him.

vs Chitzkoi: Get a repair stinger for your vehicles, or... shoot from water. Parasite logic cannot target Libra while she is on lava... erm, water.

vs SCUDs: Screw AA; that only works until Volkov comes in. And it's not cost-effective. Use Libra (deploy when cloaked with Shadow Ring works wonders, especially when there are no detectors), Maruaders and Lashers (if there are no Tesla Cruisers). Brute + Elites spam is good too.

vs Tesla Cruisers, Rhino army: Magnetrons, then Masterminds / Elites. Libra can do decent too (though slowly). Otherwise Brute spam ( ut note they can simply run away).

vs Desolator: Masterminds / Elites, Don't use Elites when they have terrain advantage (e.g. cliff). Libra (decent micro needed), Invaders.

----------
I can't really say PsiCorps is a lot stronger than Russia. PsiCorps can only get strong by map control and thievery - which is to get strong Russian units with them. Granted, PsiCorps has great unit combinations, but these combinations depends a lot on Tier 3. They don't have a very cost-effective anti-air against Wolfhounds (unless you count Piranha spam, which do not exist in some maps).

I won't say PsiCorps is weak either, considering that Soviets usually have difficulty sneaking up on vita structures in a base.

[Petya]

You are right TraumaticID. I never use the same tactics in all of the maps, because the terrain makes some of them useless or very risky.

 

Also Gehenna is very efficient if it has shorter range anti-air cover, because it isn't very fast to evade.

[lovalmidas]

Yep, Gehenna is efficient when it is escorted by more anti-air, provided those anti-air isn't too vulnerable to the Wolfhound army. But be careful - once the Dybukks are shot down, the Wolfhound army will most likely go for your shorter-range AA since Gehennas take a good while to respawn their fighters. That's if the Russian commander is able enough.

A lot of good players use Archers and Gattling Tanks though. Archers can deal lots of damage, and Gattling Tanks have greater mobility. It's just that a good PsiCorps player can build something else to counter these units.

A resilient AA defence also means the Wolfhounds will attack something else. Dedicated T3 AA is quite an expensive investment; don't expect to have enough of them everywhere.

EDIT: Remind me to write something on how to counter Borillo rush after I'm done with Russia vs HQ

Edited by lovalmidas, 21 December 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[Toveena]

Just saying, played MO3 1v1 game since it came out, up till now i played around 20 games, not so many to form a convincing evidence .

    But Point is, I only had 1 game that is played against an Allied opponent.

    Allied factions daed factions   Nuf said~

Edited by Toveena, 22 December 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[Black/Brunez]

   Allied factions daed factions   Nuf said~

 

wut?

[lovalmidas]

He suggests you need more presence in games and flood everyone with EA.

[Seth]

Guess nobody usex Oxidizers and Gatling(Tanks/Cannons) vs Wolfhounds <.<

They will fall in seconds, same for China: Sentinels in groups just pwn Wolfhounds because of their AoE.

[Petya]

Oxidizers + Gatlings is one of the most efficient combo against Wolfhounds.