50 replies to this topic

[Jargalhurts]

 

 

The moment a unit gets close to a charged Tesla Coil, TTroops will stop charging the coil, and attack that unit. Even bigger range doesn't really help on that.

 

If the LC cannot afford Tesla tech then how can they afford a nuclear reactor , like seriously isn't a nuclear reactor more expensive then a dozen Tesla troopers in the game and in real life . 

IN real life, some countries are rich enough to have Nuclear Reactors but no country has ever been rich enough to have Tesla Coils.

 

What have you done any research on Tesla coils their are plenty of them , even hobbyists can own very large ones which are several meters high however I will admit that they aren't quite as destructive but still.

 

Pretty much every single technology in the Red Alert series is an EXAGGERATION of actual real life science projects, not a total carbon copy. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear;

 

No country is rich enough to have Tesla Coils adjusted for military purposes. Hope you're happy.

 

 

And by the way, the Tesla Trooper is removed from LC because Mortar Quads make the Tesla Troopers obsolete. Everything Tesla Trooper does, Mortar Quad does it better. While Quads lack in anti-infantry capability; Pyros can easily fill in that role.

[Martinoz]

 

 

LC is already weak

You cannot be serious... Catas are strong for their price and Quads with Demo Buggies are very annoying to deal with.

[Eternity 6]

Why the Tesla trooper is better than a mortar quad and why the mortar quad is not a replacement for the Tesla trooper .

 

Stats

 

Mortar Quad

• Cost: $600
• Speed: 8
• Hitpoints: 125
• Armor Class: Plate

• Prerequisite: Soviet Barracks, Radar Tower
• Purpose: Anti-Armor Siege
• Equipment: Mortar
• Range: 10

Tesla trooper

• Cost: $500
• Speed: 6
• Hitpoints: 200
• Armor Class: Plate

• Prerequisite: Soviet Barracks, Radar Tower
• Purpose: anti-armor
• Equipment: Miniaturized Tesla Coil
• Range: 5/Close 

Difference 

 

The mortar quad has more range 5 more , has a minimum range of 3 , moves faster .

Tesla trooper costs $100 less , has no minimum range , is immune to dogs .

 

Number of shots vs armor class / units

 

Tesla trooper is : red
Mortar quad is : green

Vehicles

Half-track
hp : 300
Armor : light
Tesla : 5
Mortar : 8

Jaguar Tank
hp : 375
Armor : medium
Tesla : 7
Mortar : 11

Brillo
hp: 800
Armor : heavy
Tesla : 14
Mortar : 25

Terror Drone
hp : 110
Armor : drone
Tesla : 1
Mortar : 14

Infantry ( note : I know I missed cyborg armor class but I'm sure you can see the trend )

Conscript
hp : 115
Armor : flack
Tesla : 4
Mortar : 12

Dog
hp : 70
Armor : animal
Tesla : 2
Mortar : 8

Engineer
hp : 90
Armor : Basic
Tesla : 3
Mortar : 10

Tesla trooper
hp : 200
Armor : plate
Tesla : 6
Mortar : 34

Hijacker
hp : 130
Armor : none
Tesla : 4
Mortar : 14

Structure ( note only tested against a power plant as it would take forever to do anything else , they were not repaired )

Tesla Reactor
hp : 750
Armor : light
Tesla : 25
Mortar : 28

 

The above result don't factor in attack speed as I am not aware of the exact attack speed of the units . However it does seem to be a 1 : 2.5 ratio the mortar quad having the higher attack speed . Factoring this in they seem to be fairly similar in the speed they take down opponents the mortar slightly faster at killing vehicles and the Tesla trooper slightly faster at killing infantry .

However it still takes incredibly long for mortar quads to kill Terror drones which insta kill mortar quads and are quite relatively cheap where as the Tesla trooper can easily take this down . Other good counters would be Dune Riders and navy seals ( only the navy seals are slower than mortar the other to are faster ) and fast air units that don't need to refuel .

 

So in essence the mortar is better than the Tesla trooper in DPS verses vehicles and can out run then avoiding damage but this requires more micro , they also have less health and must avoid confrontations . The Tesla trooper is a better all around unit as it is vastly better vs infantry  and slightly better at structure killing . The mortar is not a replacement of the Tesla trooper as the Tesla troopers is better overall and is a better investment .

 

My suggestion

Increase the damage of mortar quads x2 reduce their rate of fire by 50% and give them a slight splash damage.

[Jargalhurts]

I really appreciate your effort in researching all this. No joke.

 

However, the Soviets T2 infantry for massacring other infantry and buildings is the Pyro, not the Tesla Trooper. And as I have said before, Pyros can easily fill in the anti-infantry/anti-building role if Tesla Troopers are removed.

 

In fact, Tesla Troopers SUCK at infantry/building hunting compared to Pyros.

Edited by Jargalhurts, 10 June 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Petya]

In fact, Tesla Troopers SUCK at infantry/building hunting compared to Pyros.

Depends on the situation. Against walled structures Tesla Trooper and Mortar Quad are more efficient.

[mevitar]

Tesla trooper costs $100 less , has no minimum range , is immune to dogs .

You missed that Mortar Quad is also immune to dogs.
 

LC is already weak as it is

I really don't understand where does it come from.
Hero that makes T1 and T2 vehicles die usueless in one hit, outranging most of the stuff you have? check
(he can also kill any structure in one hit like Tanya, but doesn't have to get near - check)
Fast one-hit-kill vs most structures vehicle? check
Heavily armored (more armored than Russian T3 tank!) base/tank/aircarft everything (except infantry) killer with good speed? check
(it can also be upgraded to be able to deal with infantry - check)
Long range T2 anti-armor infantry (that is able to deal with Nuwa spam)? check
Capturing enemy tanks? check
Capturing enemy infantry? check

The might lack special attacks, but that really shouldn't matter, since they have plenty of options to kill the enemy.

On the other hand: China is painfully slow, yet nobody calls them weak. Psi Corps has problems attacking a properly defended base without infantry or capturing enemy tanks for that, yet noone calls them weak either. And unlike USA, Confeds actually have quite a few options for area damage, while having some precision damage too (Mortar Quads, Morales).

Edited by mevitar, 10 June 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Petya]

Also Confederation has the best anti-infantry weapon, which can deal with infantry mobs with ease. This is the Buratino, which is relatively fast and it doesn't cost much. (Costs less than Plague Splatter with the Industrial Plant!)

[lovalmidas]

I disagree that the LC is weak (just look at OmegaBolt's games; he is pretty good with them). But I also disagree that Tesla Trooper should be entirely replaced with Mortar Quads.

 

In combat the Tesla Trooper acts like a weaker, ranged version of the Epsilon Brute. It is useful not only for its decent firepower (which does not suck against infantry anyway), but also its relative durability (200 vs Brute's 350 isn't so bad). On a 1v1, the Tesla Trooper is guaranteed to land a shot on a Navy SEAL before dying. Another really useful feature is that its attacks are instantaneous - against a trollish  (and decent) US or SC player, expect your Mortar Quads to MISS their targets a lot.

 

Overcharging the Tesla Coil is a flavour, really. I don't even build Tesla Coils if I don't have to. Tesla Troopers (and Desolators) already make good base defenders by themselves. Mortar Quads don't tend to last very long when the battle has reached the base.

 

But perhaps the biggest disadvantage LC will get without Tesla Troopers is that it will now take a Tier 3 unit (Vulture Chopper) to take out Terrier Drones quickly. And if the Vulture uses a flame weapon now, nothing in LC's armoury (except the Repair Drone) can handle a spam of such monsters. I think Eternity 6 has given you a glimpse of how useful Mortar Quads are against Drones (that are not moving). No, Halftracks are not reliable with their relatively slow rotating turrets which turns whenever you give it a new order. I can foresee that an early LC infantry rush will not be a good strategy against another Soviet player. 

 

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But then, just put the change in BR2, and we can see how the metagame changes to prove me wrong.

 

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(No, don't talk about stealing enemy infantry against a threat at the Tier 1/2 level. Speeder didn't make teching up to Tier 3 harder for nothing.)

Edited by lovalmidas, 10 June 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Petya]

I think many players haven't tasted the Catastrophe + Desolator spam yet.

[mevitar]

If Tesla Troopers are Brutes, then Soviets have 2 Brutes, Epsilon has one, and Allies have zero. Unless you consider GGI's being the only &%)#(*$( WHY I CAN'T CRUSH YOU (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ T1 anti-tank as being Brute-ish (oh, did i mention it's the only one to actually ignore walls? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ).

As for dealing with Terror Drones, all sides can use their T1 infantry. Tesla Troopers aren't needed for that.

Edited by mevitar, 10 June 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[MrFreeze777]

Some people people here don't know the advantage of LC's Mortar Quads receiving stealth detection, which means they can now harass Epsilon miners and counter HQ's Shadow Tank. Not to mention you can use Motor Ambush whenever there is no stealth detecting units nearby which will be a useful counter when facing Malver in battle. LC is now the only faction that can effective harrass the economy of all factions, Mortar Quads attacks any type of Miners while Bomb Buggy blows up Ore Refinery. 

 

Also missing Tesla Troopers won't be much of an issue especially since you can capture them from the enemy or ally and use Prison Facility to reverse engineer them. You also have Smoke Turrets to weaken the attack of enemy units as an alternative to Tesla Coils with boosted attack by Tesla Troopers.

 

Tesla Troopers also been nerfed with lower ROF but with a hit point boost in BR2. I would much rather have Mortar Quads than Tesla Troopers when you compare how effective they are vs. vehicles and when it comes to which is faster.

Edited by MrFreeze777, 11 June 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[Atomic_Noodles]

Ever heard of budgeting. Maybe the LC chose not to field Tesla Troopers into their ranks due to their research being forwarded to different assets.

[Eternity 6]

Ever heard of budgeting. Maybe the LC chose not to field Tesla Troopers into their ranks due to their research being forwarded to different assets.

Do you not know how weapon research work in Red Alert . A weapons practicality and effectiveness is solely dependent on coolness factor of the weapon , how else do you explain that a thunder storm is like a nuke , or radiation cannon , chronospheres ect .

 

As far as I know Guns that shoot lightning is about 20% cooler then mortars on quad-bikes .

(joking if you can't tell ) 

[Meyerm]

Those are both good points. Could be budgeting, but then again, many of the flashy high tech weapons could be replaced by convential weapons. The Allies COULD have had something like a cruise missile bombardment as a superweapon instead of weather control, but the allied commanders wanted their enemy to crap their pants too.

[Atomic_Noodles]

The Soviets destroyed their Nuclear Weapons early on. The Allies don't have access to nuclear missiles and Siegfried gives them the Weather Machine.

[Oktavia]

You meant Yuri destroyed Nuclear Weapons early on.

[Atomic_Noodles]

He's still on the Soviets Side on that time.

[Meyerm]

Wait I'm saying is conventional explosives. Just barrage an area with cruise missiles (like Generals Scud Storm minus the toxins). The Allies didn't NEED to resort to weather control as a superweapon. They WANTED it.

[Atomic_Noodles]

Wait I'm saying is conventional explosives. Just barrage an area with cruise missiles (like Generals Scud Storm minus the toxins). The Allies didn't NEED to resort to weather control as a superweapon. They WANTED it.

 

When you have a Mad Scientist on the side of good I'm sure you'd gladly take up his offer anyway.

[mevitar]

Siegfried is not a mad scientist. Nothing in MO implies that Einstein ever was one either.

Edited by mevitar, 13 June 2014 - 05:42 PM.