5129 replies to this topic

[Bernadiroe]

 

Surround the grumbles with few flak troopers. Problem solved.

No it's not, the long range of the Grumble means that it will be baited by Rocketeers / Gyros way before the Flak Troopers could engage them. And a single Kirov eating 7 missiles is ridiculous. The Grumble is stolen tech. It is meant to be powerful, but it is arguably the most situational and least effective of all the stolen techs.

 

So here's my proposal. Since the Grumble has 4 launch tubes, it would be only logical to give it 4 missiles (4 ammo) that it could fire in relatively quick succession. It is very important to give the Grumble the DistributedFire=yes tag, so it won't just fire all 4 at a single jet or something. Optionally, buff its damage against big air targets like the Kirov and Coronia's contraptions.

 

The Grumble should also never target Rocketeers and Gyrocopters unless it is ordered to do so. It can be done by messing with the warhead's effectiveness, and by using a dummy animation or something so the missile will still deal good damage to flying infantry.

 

I'm not sure if there's an intended weakness included even for Stolen Techs, but I think we would want even stolen units to have something that we can exploit to defeat them, otherwise we will have the whole OP complete ground denial Iron Dragon all over again.

 

Also I would say that it is rather balanced against Kirovs, since they are incredibly slow that you only need 3 or 4 Grumbles to take out the same amount of Kirovs. Only needing 1 or 2 Grumbles to have an area of guaranteed Anti-Kirov is far too OP I would say. And it's not like you can make more than one anyway... I would almost always make at least 4.

 

On another note, I realized Quetzal can pretty much bait all Grumbles without any cheap air units help, since they have their drones.

[NorthFireZ]

Grumbles against anything but allied air is pretty unrealistic. And if you're playing a team game against Soviets or Foehn as Soviets why the blimey duck would you ever go for Grumbles over Apocs or Iron Dragon?

The main point of argument should be Jets and Baracudas vs the Grumble, which by the way is a pointless discussion in the first place because the Grumble is so ducking good at its job.

The unit is designed to counter the Allied Air advantage over the soviets, basically denying all kinds of building sniping from the Allies save for Super Weapons. It's not a instant win, and that's why you people are complaining. It's because the rest of the Stolen tech units are so imbalanced thay the well designed Grumble looks weak and not worth it in comparison.

[Bernadiroe]

Grumbles against anything but allied air is pretty unrealistic. And if you're playing a team game against Soviets or Foehn as Soviets why the blimey duck would you ever go for Grumbles over Apocs or Iron Dragon?

The main point of argument should be Jets and Baracudas vs the Grumble, which by the way is a pointless discussion in the first place because the Grumble is so ducking good at its job.

The unit is designed to counter the Allied Air advantage over the soviets, basically denying all kinds of building sniping from the Allies save for Super Weapons. It's not a instant win, and that's why you people are complaining. It's because the rest of the Stolen tech units are so imbalanced thay the well designed Grumble looks weak and not worth it in comparison.

Unless the player is heavily micromanaging the Grumbles, no, Grumbles wont do a good job against jets. Moreover against Allied who has Rocketeers.

 

You do realize as Divine said before, Grumbles' long range means they can be easily baited. Doing good job yea right, by locking on a decoy Rocketeers, sending all missiles into 1 target.

 

Send Rocketeer decoy > Grumbles waste missiles > Barracuda swooping in.

Send Black Widow > Grumbles waste missiles > Barracuda swooping in.

Send Rocketeer decoy > Grumbles waste missiles > Harriers kill them.

 

Point is, this stolen tech is not really doing a good job against fast air units.

If this stolen tech is supposed to deny air units from Allied, no it's not. It does deny air units from other factions tho. (which shouldnt be that way, since iirc Stolen Tech suppose to be some sort of punishment for the specific faction letting themselves getting spied).

 

The only problem is that Grumble is easily baited, which can be done easily. Cheap even.

By increasing Grumbles' missile count and keep the total damage the same (which means each missile deals far lower damage), now you won't be able to use that decoy strategy to outsmart Grumble.

It needs a situation where after the first target downed, the Grumble will still have ammo left to target more, because nobody only send 1 Harrier or 1 Barracuda.

[GuardianGI]

If you do realise, each Rocketeers STILL costs 550 each, and Grumbles discounted by Industrial Plants only costs 1500 each.

Which means baiting em is still costly as hell, especially when there's *just* 2-4 spread out nearby.

Also, in my own experience, they are already good in sieging by denying Allied air superiority when they are close enough, and making em target multiple units only makes it so bad that the enemy can't even train anything that have the label "air" in their own base, mind you.

Edited by GuardianGI, 28 August 2017 - 07:47 PM.

[GuardianGI]

One more thing... You want em to have weakness, but giving em the ability to target multiple air units quickly will also give them the ability to absolutely deny any form of air units and thus force a ground attack with just... 5 of em? I would say that's way too much that the Grumbles can do for just effectively 1500 each.

[Divine]

One more thing... You want em to have weakness, but giving em the ability to target multiple air units quickly will also give them the ability to absolutely deny any form of air units and thus force a ground attack with just... 5 of em? I would say that's way too much that the Grumbles can do for just effectively 1500 each.

Spending 7500$ on Grumbles alone is asking for trouble, tho. Considering that the matchup is relatively even, if the enemy sees what you are doing he will just stop building aircraft and use the money and time you wasted on the Grumbles to gain adventage on the gorund. Also, you say that Rocketeer baiting the Grumble is expensive. Consider the following: The Rocketeer costs 550$ The Grumble that just got bitchslapped by the Harriers that followed costs 1500$ or 2000$. And while Allies aren't really about infantry spamming and can afford to fill their infantry queue with decoy Rocketeers, the Soviets won't do good if they have to build a fuckload of Grumbles with their War Factories so they can do the simple job of downing aircraft safely.

 

Still, what I'm asking for is not an all around buff but a buff against blimp type aircraft and an generic rebalance against other targets.

[legionnaire501]

so on an unrelated topic would it even be technically possible to have different sized gates

its something i wanted back in 2.0, a way to build 1x1 to 1x4 sized gates to better fit different terrains particularly with the map editor coming out it would make it easier to make nicer looking bases without having to use ill fitting gates or leaving the entry open

[ZΞPHYɌUS]

How about giving Wolfies twinblade like vehicle transport capabilities? It would fit really well with Russia's highly mobile theme and could make up for the Soviet Union's general lack of amphibious units. Maybe exclude epic units like the MADMAN and the Centurion.

Also kirovs could use gastoburners like the RA3 version maybe on deploy.

Edited by ZΞPHYɌUS, 29 August 2017 - 06:41 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Soviet Unions general lack of amphibious units.

 

Uh hold on, general lack of amphibious units?

[Derxwna Kapsyla]

How about giving Wolfies twinblade like vehicle transport capabilities? It would fit really well with Russia's highly mobile theme and could make up for the Soviet Unions general lack of amphibious units. Maybe exclude epic units like the MADMAN and the Centurion.

Also kirovs could use gastoburners like the RA3 version maybe on deploy.

 

I don't really think the first is possible possible; Wolfhounds would have to be able to land in order to take Carryall logic, and they aren't supposed to be able to land. As for the second one, it'd theoretically be possible with attach effect applying a speed buff for a short period of time, but there's probably significant technical limitations. However, I don't know if the speed multiplier works on Aerial units, since they use a different way of handling speed than normal units. 

[ZΞPHYɌUS]

Soviet Unions general lack of amphibious units.

Uh hold on, general lack of amphibious units?

Compared to other factions that is.

Edited by ZΞPHYɌUS, 29 August 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[Divine]

That's one of the things that Ares won't change for sure, so we have to work around the limitations.

(Speeder about the hardcoded limit on IFV variations)

 

it's almost like AlexB read this post by Speeder and thought: "LOL u wanna bet?"

Edited by Divine, 29 August 2017 - 12:23 PM.

[Handepsilon]

That's probably a secret language to get AlexB motivated

[Solais]

I wonder if the Tunnel Logic will be used in MO by something.

[StolenTech]

about the Grumbles, you're all forgetting the utter bullshit that is blackwidow, which can bait all of of your grumbles, disappear, take 0 damage and do it all over again and again while also buffing jets even more to soviet's already shitty AA (I know there are sentinals but who is retarded enough to run his jets into those anyways) and all for 1k not to mention it debuffes

static defenses too... 

Edited by StolenTech, 29 August 2017 - 02:32 PM.

[Divine]

The Soviets have it easy, with their sensor towers. Try downing the Black Widow as PsiCorps. The Gehenna platforms are utterly helpless against it, and as we know, gatling weapons don't do jack against heavy aircraft armor, and Epsilon factions don't have sensor towers either.

Edited by Divine, 29 August 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[Gameman112358]

 

That's one of the things that Ares won't change for sure, so we have to work around the limitations.

(Speeder about the hardcoded limit on IFV variations)

 

it's almost like AlexB read this post by Speeder and thought: "LOL u wanna bet?"

 

That's probably a secret language to get AlexB motivated

 

 

I gotta admit, AlexB does some good work on Ares, especially since he works alone. (I think? I'm not sure, but I remember AlexB coming out and saying he's the only one still actively working on Ares. Correct me if I'm wrong, please) 

 

Removing the IFV variations limit would certainly be interesting. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but more IFV variations does buff the Allied factions as a whole up, since they're the only ones in the whole game that make use of IFV combos (Stinger doesn't count, and Scavengers are a Stolen Tech, which is difficult to get unless your enemy is careless).

 

A field medic IFV that heals infantry would be awesome for the Allies; makes it easier to keep the troops alive. (For example, I'm having trouble with Relentless for the reasons that it's difficult to keep everyone alive amongst all the chaos and poison clouds all over the place. A field medic IFV with its AoE healing would greatly help with that). Among other ideas. There's a lot of possibilities now that the limit has been removed. Keep up the good work AlexB! 

[UNSC THE CHILL OF WAR]

Fin and alize IFV's. Also keeps M.A.D healing

[mevitar]

The Soviets have it easy, with their sensor towers. Try downing the Black Widow as PsiCorps. The Gehenna platforms are utterly helpless against it, and as we know, gatling weapons don't do jack against heavy aircraft armor, and Epsilon factions don't have sensor towers either.

Archers.
And yes, you need to split your army and keep some Archers in the base for that.

T1 AA infantry spam is in general much better at dealing with any aircraft than AA vehicles and defensive structures.

[FixenFrøjte]

when brutes enter IFV's, they should get a massive arm to punch with. punch 'n' run.

 

and when morales enters the IFV, it shoots tequila bottles. just throws ordinary tequila bottles at people. props only works against infantry without helmets.

 

Edited by FixenFrøjte, 29 August 2017 - 08:20 PM.