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MO 3.3 // Overused/Underused/NotUsed Units, Buildings & Support Powers


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#241 Tathmesh

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:08 PM

I just wish there was a way to slow down the pace of the game, and let tiers 1 and 2 last longer. RN is just seems to be a game of "avoid run-by's until you get to tier 3 then spam faction-gimmic". 

 

Without changing up how MO balance works right now...

 

...I think it boils down to map design. You could design a map that has barely enough resources to make it to T2 and definitely not enough to buy a full MCV. Place most of the resources in the center of the map to slow down cash flow.

 

I'm pretty sure there are some maps like this. Hanamura is a 1v1 example. Maelstorm is a 8 player map where all the ore is the middle of the map.  

 

The real question is: is MO interesting enough in the early game to even do this?

 

 

 

I just wish there was a way to slow down the pace of the game, and let tiers 1 and 2 last longer. RN is just seems to be a game of "avoid run-by's until you get to tier 3 then spam faction-gimmic". 

Couldn't you just make tier 3 structures longer to build than? That way it takes longer for the later tier stuff to come out and play

 

 

That runs the risk of making games too one-sided. If T3 structures take too long to build and your opponent can kill your T3, then it's basically gg. 


Edited by Tathmesh, 11 April 2019 - 11:11 PM.


#242 Handepsilon

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:11 AM

And then some factions like SC just dominates early game more than anybody else.

Also, I'm not sure about this, but I recall some groans when somebody posted maps where big resources are on the center to contest for. I think it was the snowballing factor?

I like gnomes

 

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#243 Thesilver

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:50 AM

That happens when only one center resource patch is present. say for example there is only one gem field and its at the center. whoever controls that in the early game will have an enormous economical advantage as it gives double income with no drawbacks while your enemy will only have gold. this is one of the other reason why tech rushes happen, gems at the starting base giving an enormous resource influx at the start. This makes non stop structure production very easy to accomplish while having enough money to spare for an army. many of the popular 1v1 maps have gems at the starting base, and they are very easily defended to boot, not a single bit harder than the standard gold ones as there are no vantage points to pressure gem fields from like for instance a ridge overlooking a gemfield for an attacker to shoot at harvesters from a safe place.



#244 Death_Kitty

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 02:47 AM

Is MO early game interesting enough? Tier 1, no. Tier 2, maybe. Each faction has some pretty interesting units at tier's one and 2, but none are used, SC excluded, just because the power spike at tier 3 is just so good compared to how little you invest in time and resources to get there. On larger maps, then it becomes much easier to punish someone fore spending, say, 3000 on a tech center, than on 4 bulldog tanks. But that comes at a cost of enjoy-ability. And, btw, that is an equivalent cost. On 1 WF, it takes about the same time and the same resources to make 1 tech center, than it does 4 bulldog tanks. So you make bulldog tanks, some AFV's and airforce to support them, your opponent is already rocking, say, tesla cruisers, and you will die, even though you may have done a perfect build. That's why all tier 1 and 2 are usually underused. (IMHO)

 

The reason SC is forced to use tier 1 and 2 is because their tier 3 is absolute trash. The tyrant is broken OP at sniping bases, but it is trash at anything else, while the oxidizer and plague splatter are... absolutely worthless, splatter especially (ok oxidizer is great vs air, as long as you invested in other AA. I treat is as more of a buff you AA than as an actual unit). Trikes are a far more useful investment, and actually a damn good one. The range and speed make them unequaled at harassment for a tier 2 unit. TL;DR, SC's tier 3 power spike is the worst in the game, they dominate tier 2 b/c they have to. (IMHO). That they are good at dominating tier 2 b/c of trikes is moot. Alstar will probably smite me here, but i don't think I'm completely wrong. 

 

I'd say there has to be a way to actually form a choice between staying at tier 2 and pushing your opponent early, and going to tier 3. Immediate tier 3 should be a risk. Tier 1 rushing will never usually be an option b/c of how much infantry dominate tier 1, how much better it is to build miners than units, map distance, and the cost effectiveness of base defenses. (i.e. godlike defenders advantage) That will be too hard to change, so don't change it. 

 

To force more dynamic and varied early game there are 2 choices (i think):

Nerf tier 3: ill save us all the discussion: not an option.

Make tier 2 pushes come earlier, and do more damage (more units). Maybe an armory tab building that lets you produce tier 1 and 2 (or maybe just tier 1) vehicles much faster, on top of delaying tier 3 buildings. I dunno, sometimes I fell like this game really needs another tab. 

 

I.E. the choice is: build their 1+ some 2 in support, but pressure quickly before you get snowballed, or build some defenses/infantry and go straight to tier 3 with little units, which can pay off if your opponent is not aggressive enough, or play it safe until you get enough of an edge to tier 3. If you try to do both, econ stalls. That's the idea anyway. I think this could be fun, maybe allow for some more development of tier 2 mechanics and interactions. 



#245 JackoDerp

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 11:25 AM

Is MO early game interesting enough? Tier 1, no. Tier 2, maybe. Each faction has some pretty interesting units at tier's one and 2, but none are used, SC excluded, just because the power spike at tier 3 is just so good compared to how little you invest in time and resources to get there. On larger maps, then it becomes much easier to punish someone fore spending, say, 3000 on a tech center, than on 4 bulldog tanks. But that comes at a cost of enjoy-ability. And, btw, that is an equivalent cost. On 1 WF, it takes about the same time and the same resources to make 1 tech center, than it does 4 bulldog tanks. So you make bulldog tanks, some AFV's and airforce to support them, your opponent is already rocking, say, tesla cruisers, and you will die, even though you may have done a perfect build. That's why all tier 1 and 2 are usually underused. (IMHO)

 

The reason SC is forced to use tier 1 and 2 is because their tier 3 is absolute trash. The tyrant is broken OP at sniping bases, but it is trash at anything else, while the oxidizer and plague splatter are... absolutely worthless, splatter especially (ok oxidizer is great vs air, as long as you invested in other AA. I treat is as more of a buff you AA than as an actual unit). Trikes are a far more useful investment, and actually a damn good one. The range and speed make them unequaled at harassment for a tier 2 unit. TL;DR, SC's tier 3 power spike is the worst in the game, they dominate tier 2 b/c they have to. (IMHO). That they are good at dominating tier 2 b/c of trikes is moot. Alstar will probably smite me here, but i don't think I'm completely wrong. 

 

I'd say there has to be a way to actually form a choice between staying at tier 2 and pushing your opponent early, and going to tier 3. Immediate tier 3 should be a risk. Tier 1 rushing will never usually be an option b/c of how much infantry dominate tier 1, how much better it is to build miners than units, map distance, and the cost effectiveness of base defenses. (i.e. godlike defenders advantage) That will be too hard to change, so don't change it. 

 

To force more dynamic and varied early game there are 2 choices (i think):

Nerf tier 3: ill save us all the discussion: not an option.

Make tier 2 pushes come earlier, and do more damage (more units). Maybe an armory tab building that lets you produce tier 1 and 2 (or maybe just tier 1) vehicles much faster, on top of delaying tier 3 buildings. I dunno, sometimes I fell like this game really needs another tab. 

 

I.E. the choice is: build their 1+ some 2 in support, but pressure quickly before you get snowballed, or build some defenses/infantry and go straight to tier 3 with little units, which can pay off if your opponent is not aggressive enough, or play it safe until you get enough of an edge to tier 3. If you try to do both, econ stalls. That's the idea anyway. I think this could be fun, maybe allow for some more development of tier 2 mechanics and interactions. 

 

 

I have a few things to mention here:

 

1. *Some* Factions have T2 uniques that get lots of lategame use (Such as Zephyrs, Speeders, Irritators and, by far the best, Shadows)

2. Scorpion Cell's recent buffs do make them a lot more competent in 1v1s (Ok the OP Tyrant was somewhat accidental and is getting reverted), though the current state of 3.3.4 Foehn does make them literally unbeatable

3. Oxidisers are one of the best single-target AA units in the game, ok they're a bit tricky to use against massive blobs but Archers *usually* handle that just fine.

4. DO NOT DISS THE MIGHTY PLAGUE SPLATTER (No Seriously, its really goddamn good now)


Everyone seems to be arguing over how Yunru came into such a position of power,

yet nobody is willing to explain how Rahn's weapon is able to teleport a pair of shorts.


#246 Handepsilon

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 11:57 AM

I guess the notion of spamming artilleries is very rare that it feels weird.

I like gnomes

 

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#247 Tathmesh

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 04:46 PM

Is MO early game interesting enough? Tier 1, no. Tier 2, maybe. Each faction has some pretty interesting units at tier's one and 2, but none are used, SC excluded, just because the power spike at tier 3 is just so good compared to how little you invest in time and resources to get there. On larger maps, then it becomes much easier to punish someone fore spending, say, 3000 on a tech center, than on 4 bulldog tanks. But that comes at a cost of enjoy-ability. And, btw, that is an equivalent cost. On 1 WF, it takes about the same time and the same resources to make 1 tech center, than it does 4 bulldog tanks. So you make bulldog tanks, some AFV's and airforce to support them, your opponent is already rocking, say, tesla cruisers, and you will die, even though you may have done a perfect build. That's why all tier 1 and 2 are usually underused. (IMHO)

 

The reason SC is forced to use tier 1 and 2 is because their tier 3 is absolute trash. The tyrant is broken OP at sniping bases, but it is trash at anything else, while the oxidizer and plague splatter are... absolutely worthless, splatter especially (ok oxidizer is great vs air, as long as you invested in other AA. I treat is as more of a buff you AA than as an actual unit). Trikes are a far more useful investment, and actually a damn good one. The range and speed make them unequaled at harassment for a tier 2 unit. TL;DR, SC's tier 3 power spike is the worst in the game, they dominate tier 2 b/c they have to. (IMHO). That they are good at dominating tier 2 b/c of trikes is moot. Alstar will probably smite me here, but i don't think I'm completely wrong. 

 

I'd say there has to be a way to actually form a choice between staying at tier 2 and pushing your opponent early, and going to tier 3. Immediate tier 3 should be a risk. Tier 1 rushing will never usually be an option b/c of how much infantry dominate tier 1, how much better it is to build miners than units, map distance, and the cost effectiveness of base defenses. (i.e. godlike defenders advantage) That will be too hard to change, so don't change it. 

 

To force more dynamic and varied early game there are 2 choices (i think):

Nerf tier 3: ill save us all the discussion: not an option.

Make tier 2 pushes come earlier, and do more damage (more units). Maybe an armory tab building that lets you produce tier 1 and 2 (or maybe just tier 1) vehicles much faster, on top of delaying tier 3 buildings. I dunno, sometimes I fell like this game really needs another tab. 

 

I.E. the choice is: build their 1+ some 2 in support, but pressure quickly before you get snowballed, or build some defenses/infantry and go straight to tier 3 with little units, which can pay off if your opponent is not aggressive enough, or play it safe until you get enough of an edge to tier 3. If you try to do both, econ stalls. That's the idea anyway. I think this could be fun, maybe allow for some more development of tier 2 mechanics and interactions. 

 

Well, we all know the extra tab is never going to happen because RA2 engine sucks dick. 

 

A reasonable alternative might be to give production speed modifiers in T2 or T1 to all factions.

 

Like for example, a War Factory Extension for all factions that increases the speed of T1/T2 vehicle production without building an entirely new War Factory. Have this thing cost say $1000.

 

If that's not possible, an alternate approach is to make it some kind of risky support power that buffs War Factory production for a certain duration. 

 

(insert "Can Ares even do that?" here). Someone who actually knows Ares should weigh in on this.


Edited by Tathmesh, 13 April 2019 - 04:47 PM.


#248 Handepsilon

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 02:40 AM

Well.....

Can Ares even do that?

From what I remembered, the answer is 'yes and no'. I don't recall any coding that allows build time reduction on specific units whenever a specific structure is built.

The workaround is that there needs to be 2 version of the units, which gets enabled/disabled depending on the structure's existence. It comes with a lot of problems tho.
1. Obviously very time consuming to make
2. If you are in the middle of building T1 and T2 units and then this structure pops up/gets destroyed, their queue will be cancelled instantly because the 'old' units get disabled and is replaced by new ones
3. Minor issues, but whenever that structure gets destroyed, you'll be greeted with New Construction Options prompt every single time

As for WF speed boosting... I dunno if Ares even supports that in the first place,

Edited by Handepsilon, 14 April 2019 - 02:42 AM.

I like gnomes

 

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#249 Zharakov

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:25 PM

I think alot (maybe not alot, a few) units mentioned here that are "underused" are supposed to be "underused"

Dustdevils and all other units like it. I believe the underlying problem with most of these types of units is not because they are useless or too expensive, etc, but it has to do with alot of the MO communities play style which is alot of the times the usual "spam spam spam high health and damage units", which is okay and understandable for beginners or casual players.

I don't know how to solve this issue. But damn these buffer units could really change the tide of the game if used well. I noticed the moment people use these units is when they are challenged by a pro player using these in a beau-tactiful manner (word i literally just made now lol, beautiful+tactical) and thus the challenged player will try out this tactic for himself.

Probably more buffs would do it to, so that the unit can self promote itself to the player due to its good stats

As with "situational units" such as naval transports, half tracks,etc. I think that they are classified by alot as "underused" because they are SUPPOSED to be "underused", you won't always see a naval transport in a normal naval match, but when island expansion is possible (or chronoshifting them with prisms inside) you'll see em, we probably don't need any buff or nerf to it to make it used more since its not ALWAYS supposed to be used at all.

As for "overused" probably the save/load option :p i admit to using this OP tactic every minute when things get rough playing campaign

Edited by Zharakov, 16 April 2019 - 03:29 PM.


#250 AlexB

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:09 PM

Regarding Build Time boosts: A "selective" build speed boost/penalty isn't possible at the moment. YR just has the normal Industrial Plant cost bonus that applies to all. Ares adds build speed modifiers which always apply (useful to make individual units faster or slower), as well as customizable Industrial Plant cost modifiers for each unit.

The feature you propose would need to be working like an Industrial Plant, but for build speed instead of cost bonuses. Currently not possible "out of the box".

#251 Ebonight_5i8er

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 06:42 AM

From my gameplay experience, this is my list. I'll only do support powers for now.

Sonar Pulse - Underused. Not really much to detect submerged units in a small radius when Dolphins, SEALs, and Destroyers can do a much better job at detecting and countering. If it functioned like it's RA1 counterpart, where it revealed all submerged units for a good five seconds, then it'll have more use.

Backwarp - Overused. Gives free healing for any Allied unit blob. Makes Medics unused since it heals infantry faster, and especially makes an Allied naval fleet last longer, ensuring their naval supremacy.

Mercury Strike - Overused. Gives USA potshots at infantry and vehicle groups, and more damaging with Target Painter.

Terror & Tank Drop - Overused. Nothing more annoying when playing against Russia, as they can spam their Rhinos and Terror Drones to make painful ambushes (more so with the Iron Curtain, which makes dealing with them a pain when playing as any Foehn subfactions.)

Flame Tower - Underused. Pretty situational defense, and that the best use I can get out of is guarding a tech structure from enemy engineers. You'll get a lot better use from using Instant Shelter, and it's available earlier once you built a Field Bureau. I also wish the Flame Tower replaced the Sentry Gun for all Soviet subfactions, mostly because it looks cooler.

Instant Shelter - Overused. Gives the Soviet player a powerful defense anywhere on the map.

Vision - Underused. Foreseeing enemy movement is useful, but it's just that. Decent scouting and radar/map awareness makes this obsolete.

Bloatick Trap - Overused. Removes infantry and/or heroes without retaliation. Also highly damaging on fragile structures (Power providers are especially notable.)

Toxic Strike - Not used. A useless waste of $1000 that only annoys infantry and does nothing against anything else.

Devourer - Overused. Like Bloatick Trap and Mercury Strike, it sweeps infantry effectively.

Megaarena - Overused. Gives Megalodons the best damage and armor upgrade in a wide radius, with the added effect of vaporizing any infantry nearby.

Signal Jammer - Underused. Helpful for a short period, but spamming Raccoons do better ay preventing use of support powers and superweapons.

That's all for now. Might add more in another post.

#252 JackoDerp

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:54 PM

From my gameplay experience, this is my list. I'll only do support powers for now.

Sonar Pulse - Underused. Not really much to detect submerged units in a small radius when Dolphins, SEALs, and Destroyers can do a much better job at detecting and countering. If it functioned like it's RA1 counterpart, where it revealed all submerged units for a good five seconds, then it'll have more use.

Backwarp - Overused. Gives free healing for any Allied unit blob. Makes Medics unused since it heals infantry faster, and especially makes an Allied naval fleet last longer, ensuring their naval supremacy.

Mercury Strike - Overused. Gives USA potshots at infantry and vehicle groups, and more damaging with Target Painter.

Terror & Tank Drop - Overused. Nothing more annoying when playing against Russia, as they can spam their Rhinos and Terror Drones to make painful ambushes (more so with the Iron Curtain, which makes dealing with them a pain when playing as any Foehn subfactions.)

Flame Tower - Underused. Pretty situational defense, and that the best use I can get out of is guarding a tech structure from enemy engineers. You'll get a lot better use from using Instant Shelter, and it's available earlier once you built a Field Bureau. I also wish the Flame Tower replaced the Sentry Gun for all Soviet subfactions, mostly because it looks cooler.

Instant Shelter - Overused. Gives the Soviet player a powerful defense anywhere on the map.

Vision - Underused. Foreseeing enemy movement is useful, but it's just that. Decent scouting and radar/map awareness makes this obsolete.

Bloatick Trap - Overused. Removes infantry and/or heroes without retaliation. Also highly damaging on fragile structures (Power providers are especially notable.)

Toxic Strike - Not used. A useless waste of $1000 that only annoys infantry and does nothing against anything else.

Devourer - Overused. Like Bloatick Trap and Mercury Strike, it sweeps infantry effectively.

Megaarena - Overused. Gives Megalodons the best damage and armor upgrade in a wide radius, with the added effect of vaporizing any infantry nearby.

Signal Jammer - Underused. Helpful for a short period, but spamming Raccoons do better ay preventing use of support powers and superweapons.

That's all for now. Might add more in another post.


Sonar Pulse - its a scouting tool, so what? Plop it on an enemy Naval yard and have a look.

Backwarp - You're describing a support power doing its job and then saying its overused as a result. Most Allied ground armies (with exception to something like a BattleTort Spam) need Backwarp support to stand against the much heavier stuff that Foehn and Soviets can bring.
As for Backwarp making Allied navy too powerful in lategame...
Spoiler

Also Backwarp requires a Warpshop *and* a Battle Lab. Its a super lategame ability, of course its fucking useful.

Mercury Strike - Again you're berating something for doing its exact purpose. It supplement's USA's lighter unit compositions as well as buffs Athenas if you're in a really tricky siege scenario.

Terror/Tank Drop - Ok these support powers are intended to supplement your army to boost its numbers, usually people just drop them in very random places to get free sneak damage, and often in the case of Tank Drop, just get a freebie Techsnipe or SW snipe (because thats 100 times more powerful than having extra damage zzz) Frankly I don't like this at all but it happens.

Flame Tower - Everybody says that "oh look flame tower is useless etc". Sure its a bit *niche* but its not entirely useless, and costs next to nothing to even use the damn thing anyway. Heck I usually use it to support Arsonists by burning engineers with them.

Instant Shelter - Overused? I have almost never seen someone use a strategy revolving around Instant Shelter, like ever. Literally never. Once a player hits T3 that Bunker gets deleted and nobody uses it ever again. Sure it has *some* viability as a tactic but why go for T2 push when you can just make your Hero/Epic Unit/Fuckton of Desos and go win that way?

Vision - I *kinda* agree. Its more underused because people forget it exists, but its also crazy useful in Epsi vs Epsi, for obvious reasons.

Bloatick Trap - I mean, if you're just going to sit there and not pay attention to your dudes, of course I'm going to use it on you. Most heroes are far too tanky to die from this anyway, and in the same bracket as Mercury Strike its just doing its job.

Toxic Strike - Ok I 100% agree on this one. Shouldn't need explanation.

Devourer - See Bloatick Trap. Also is one of the few ways for Foehn to heal their dudes, AND it needs reprocessor, which is pretty lategame stuff.

Megaarena - Back in the day I'd agree with you, because lolxd Megalodons in Megaarena was so stupid powerful people forgot that Haihead could build other units. Since then not so much, its been nerfed multiple times and now people just crutch on FinAlize and MADMAN rush anyway so who needs em?

Signal Jammer - you mean one of the most annoying cancer structures in long games? That you know, can make Foehn un-siegable? (No I don't mean Blasticade lol) It costs 2500 and a shitload of power for a reason.

Everyone seems to be arguing over how Yunru came into such a position of power,

yet nobody is willing to explain how Rahn's weapon is able to teleport a pair of shorts.


#253 Ebonight_5i8er

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:26 PM

 

From my gameplay experience, this is my list. I'll only do support powers for now.

Sonar Pulse - Underused. Not really much to detect submerged units in a small radius when Dolphins, SEALs, and Destroyers can do a much better job at detecting and countering. If it functioned like it's RA1 counterpart, where it revealed all submerged units for a good five seconds, then it'll have more use.

Backwarp - Overused. Gives free healing for any Allied unit blob. Makes Medics unused since it heals infantry faster, and especially makes an Allied naval fleet last longer, ensuring their naval supremacy.

Mercury Strike - Overused. Gives USA potshots at infantry and vehicle groups, and more damaging with Target Painter.

Terror & Tank Drop - Overused. Nothing more annoying when playing against Russia, as they can spam their Rhinos and Terror Drones to make painful ambushes (more so with the Iron Curtain, which makes dealing with them a pain when playing as any Foehn subfactions.)

Flame Tower - Underused. Pretty situational defense, and that the best use I can get out of is guarding a tech structure from enemy engineers. You'll get a lot better use from using Instant Shelter, and it's available earlier once you built a Field Bureau. I also wish the Flame Tower replaced the Sentry Gun for all Soviet subfactions, mostly because it looks cooler.

Instant Shelter - Overused. Gives the Soviet player a powerful defense anywhere on the map.

Vision - Underused. Foreseeing enemy movement is useful, but it's just that. Decent scouting and radar/map awareness makes this obsolete.

Bloatick Trap - Overused. Removes infantry and/or heroes without retaliation. Also highly damaging on fragile structures (Power providers are especially notable.)

Toxic Strike - Not used. A useless waste of $1000 that only annoys infantry and does nothing against anything else.

Devourer - Overused. Like Bloatick Trap and Mercury Strike, it sweeps infantry effectively.

Megaarena - Overused. Gives Megalodons the best damage and armor upgrade in a wide radius, with the added effect of vaporizing any infantry nearby.

Signal Jammer - Underused. Helpful for a short period, but spamming Raccoons do better ay preventing use of support powers and superweapons.

That's all for now. Might add more in another post.


Sonar Pulse - its a scouting tool, so what? Plop it on an enemy Naval yard and have a look.

Backwarp - You're describing a support power doing its job and then saying its overused as a result. Most Allied ground armies (with exception to something like a BattleTort Spam) need Backwarp support to stand against the much heavier stuff that Foehn and Soviets can bring.
As for Backwarp making Allied navy too powerful in lategame...
Spoiler

Also Backwarp requires a Warpshop *and* a Battle Lab. Its a super lategame ability, of course its fucking useful.

Mercury Strike - Again you're berating something for doing its exact purpose. It supplement's USA's lighter unit compositions as well as buffs Athenas if you're in a really tricky siege scenario.

Terror/Tank Drop - Ok these support powers are intended to supplement your army to boost its numbers, usually people just drop them in very random places to get free sneak damage, and often in the case of Tank Drop, just get a freebie Techsnipe or SW snipe (because thats 100 times more powerful than having extra damage zzz) Frankly I don't like this at all but it happens.

Flame Tower - Everybody says that "oh look flame tower is useless etc". Sure its a bit *niche* but its not entirely useless, and costs next to nothing to even use the damn thing anyway. Heck I usually use it to support Arsonists by burning engineers with them.

Instant Shelter - Overused? I have almost never seen someone use a strategy revolving around Instant Shelter, like ever. Literally never. Once a player hits T3 that Bunker gets deleted and nobody uses it ever again. Sure it has *some* viability as a tactic but why go for T2 push when you can just make your Hero/Epic Unit/Fuckton of Desos and go win that way?

Vision - I *kinda* agree. Its more underused because people forget it exists, but its also crazy useful in Epsi vs Epsi, for obvious reasons.

Bloatick Trap - I mean, if you're just going to sit there and not pay attention to your dudes, of course I'm going to use it on you. Most heroes are far too tanky to die from this anyway, and in the same bracket as Mercury Strike its just doing its job.

Toxic Strike - Ok I 100% agree on this one. Shouldn't need explanation.

Devourer - See Bloatick Trap. Also is one of the few ways for Foehn to heal their dudes, AND it needs reprocessor, which is pretty lategame stuff.

Megaarena - Back in the day I'd agree with you, because lolxd Megalodons in Megaarena was so stupid powerful people forgot that Haihead could build other units. Since then not so much, its been nerfed multiple times and now people just crutch on FinAlize and MADMAN rush anyway so who needs em?

Signal Jammer - you mean one of the most annoying cancer structures in long games? That you know, can make Foehn un-siegable? (No I don't mean Blasticade lol) It costs 2500 and a shitload of power for a reason.

 

It didn't occur for me to use Sonar Pulse on the vicinity of an enemy shipyard. My stupidity there. 

 

I'm probably calling Backwarp overused considering it's free of charge, unlike Chronoboost. 

 

Mercury Strike is helpful for me as a USA player, but mildly annoying when I'm facing against one. Maybe I just suck. 

 

Terror/Tank Drops I use to boost my army when I play Russia, but still an itch to deal with when you have an undefended area of your base. 

 

Flame Towers can be destroyed by siege units anyway, and a player who knows what to avoid will prevent losses on their infantry. Even if it's being spawned in front of them, they can get away unlike Bloaticks or Mercury (Or maybe I'm using Flame Towers wrong). And do Arsonists set Engineers ablaze? I don't recall them being able to do that. 

 

Instant Shelter can give some worthwhile defence away from your base, but I agree, it's junk once you get to tier 3. 

 

Vision is useful against Epsilon mirror matchups? Have to try that out. 

 

Bloatick Trap, again, I'm probably just being careless with my infantry. 

 

Agreed on Toxic Strike. 

 

Nothing to say on Devourer. Maybe I'm just being biased on a few support powers. 

 

Megaarena still kinda has some uses, but FinAlize can be countered, like say massed Terror Drones, and the M.A.D.M.A.N. is slow moving target that is begging to pinned by Magnetic Beam or quick aircraft strikes. 

 

lol, no. I meant the Haihead exclusive support power. Useful in some parts, but redundant once you have Raccoons. 


Edited by Ebonight_5i8er, 26 April 2019 - 06:19 PM.


#254 JackoDerp

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 07:01 PM

Flame Towers can be destroyed by siege units anyway, and a player who knows what to avoid will prevent losses on their infantry. Even if it's being spawned in front of them, they can get away unlike Bloaticks or Mercury (Or maybe I'm using Flame Towers wrong). And do Arsonists set Engineers ablaze? I don't recall them being able to do that.


I meant the Flame Tower killing engineers, since they defuse arsonist charges.

lol, no. I meant the Haihead exclusive support power. Useful in some parts, but redundant once you have Raccoons.


Oh right, that thing. Extremely trolly to stop people from using things like SWs in clutch moments, and you can place it anywhere.

Everyone seems to be arguing over how Yunru came into such a position of power,

yet nobody is willing to explain how Rahn's weapon is able to teleport a pair of shorts.


#255 teztez

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 01:30 PM

Boidmachines,eureca,most T1 tanks this are the most under used units for me.I barely use them especially T1 tanks and Boidmachines


Edited by teztez, 26 May 2019 - 01:31 PM.


#256 CrimsonRaider

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 12:06 PM

Boidmachine is good against allied aircraft, the AI tends to build the airfield and airstrips too close to each other. Also good for lowering the power (especially soviets and foehn guys).
By the way: elite boidmachines do not differ from rookie ones that much. Yes, they got a power buff, but they destroy T1 vehichles as rookie too, and T3 stuff survives an elite attack anyway. Is it possible to add a [BoidBlitzElite] or something with a decreased cooldown time (30 seconds or so), if they got promoted to elite?



#257 Opus Custom Tank

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:49 AM

Boidmachine is good against allied aircraft, the AI tends to build the airfield and airstrips too close to each other. Also good for lowering the power (especially soviets and foehn guys).
By the way: elite boidmachines do not differ from rookie ones that much. Yes, they got a power buff, but they destroy T1 vehichles as rookie too, and T3 stuff survives an elite attack anyway. Is it possible to add a [BoidBlitzElite] or something with a decreased cooldown time (30 seconds or so), if they got promoted to elite?


Man Boidmachine is too op already. T3 stuff survives? I saw 12 Vulture maked trash by one FREE shot. Ok they are fast but you cannot keep run everytime. For me Boidmachine no need to promoted, just need to be nerfed. It suppossed be anti armor but they are still good for others. Or just can be a timer for its shot.

Edited by Opus Custom Tank, 28 May 2019 - 09:57 AM.


#258 CrimsonRaider

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 11:09 AM

Yeah, I wasn't precise enough: most of them survives, weaker ones (tyrant, vulture, buratinos) definately die. Abrams/tesla cruiser and above will live. But I don't really use it against heavy units, and keep my key units in small (3-4) groups to prevent getting boidblitz'd.
But still: I don't know if there's such a thing like using an other variant of a certain support power, if the unit gets promoted.






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