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MO 3.3 // Overused/Underused/NotUsed Units, Buildings & Support Powers


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#21 X1Destroy

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:37 AM

Zephyr's bombardment attack isn't weak. The problem is that the barrages never hit the intended target most of the time.

I used like 100 Zephyrs, put the beacon near the Conyard and it's still alive with lots of health. Because most of the shots hit elsewhere.

As for hitting vehicles, it only works vs stuffs like Nuwa and Centurion. Faster vehicles can just avoid the barrage easily.


Edited by X1Destroy, 20 January 2017 - 09:38 AM.

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#22 Handepsilon

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

Beacon attacks don't work against buildings, they're there just to harass tanks owned by players who aren't aware.

 

If you directly attack buildings with massed Zephyr though, it's super effective


Edited by Handepsilon, 20 January 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#23 Divine

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:35 AM

 

Underused:

 

Epsilon's Vision support power. Just what are the chances that it will reveal anything significant? If you cast it over an area, you probably already have the suspicion that something's about to happen there. 

 

Similarly, the Mind Reader's use is very limited as well, and it's very easy to counter (just don't directly send your units in its range until the last moment). I'm yet to see a game where someone builds it.

 

1. If you are suspicious that something is coming, you can cast it to reveal where they are actually going?

2. Thats why you put more than one mind reader in base.

 

One can send units straight in the direction of Mind Reader(s) without being detected simply by issuing the order in a way that the destination is out of the Reader's range. 

let X be the destination, R be the Mind Reader(s), and U your units, and the parenthesis the range of the reader, T is the target you actually want to engage.       X--(-T-R---)--U. Then you just change the order when it suits you, if you want to attack/move/infiltrate within the Mind Reader's range. If it leaves more than 5 secs of reaction time for your opponent, you are doing it wrong.

 

Besides this, good early game reconaissance and situational awareness are already necessary to win games, and they render the Mind Reader obsolete by default. As I said, I'm yet to see a game where someone builds these things. Vision is at least free to use, but still not very useful. Both are definetaly underused.



#24 aethiraes

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

Interesting that Hxazgalor mentioned that Epsilon Adepts and Masterminds are underused. Someone also mentioned that people tend to spam Irkalla and Rahn 

 

It seems that a lot of players favour big, heavy impact units rather than micro-orientated units. 

 

Ambush or hit-and-run units like Marauders or Shadow Tanks are underused; I don't see a lot of Drakuv stealing infantry tech; debuffers seem to be unpopular (hummingbird, SODAR, smoke bombs support power). 

 

Personally, I'm okay with most of these units and micro-ing (poorly). I'll go out of my way to buy hummingbirds for a "tactical retreat" or specifically target armour with anti-armour or splitting my spies to infiltrate from multiple directions. 



#25 DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:45 AM

It seems that a lot of players favour big, heavy impact units rather than micro-orientated units.

 

 

Yah, its true. Hence the Foehn faction, and its why I want the Apocalypse Tank integrated into standard Russia tech tree. Of course then thats probably the only thing I'd ever use, LOL!

 

When using Drakuv's? I've only ever retreated a converted enemy soldier back to the Field Bureau in online games ONCE. Though I have yet to play 100 games online.

 

And yeah, the dust devil.... I gotta try using them more often. Their attack is a multiple bombing run in a big radius, that does a 50 percent decrease to all enemy ground unit's firepower? Seems cool!

 

Question: The smoke only affects enemy ground units, right?


Edited by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr, 21 January 2017 - 12:50 AM.


#26 Speeder

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 01:03 AM

Yes, only ground units.


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#27 Zharakov

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:34 AM

Eurake- It's so underused i'm not even sure if that's the right spelling, Man i love Wing's of Coronia and a Flying hero would have been perfect for this Faction...

but no they get a slow firing hero who can't fend for herself and always needs to be babysitted by buzzards -__-, And pteranodon's can take her job easily..

 

That's the only thing that i don't like about this mod.. Almost Perfect could have been Perfect .-_-.



#28 CLAlstar

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:36 AM

Eureka and underused? I see her more often than most of heroes.



#29 Destroyencio

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:25 AM

Nanocoat Regulators are also really underused, maybe you see one near a Plasmerizer, but appart from that you won't see them much.

 

In the other hand Signal Inhibitors are pretty much overused, a lot of Foehn players rely on them to cover from Superweapons and I might add that it feels unbalanced even for their price (since Foehn has Reprocessor which gives money for kills)


Edited by Destroyencio, 22 January 2017 - 12:29 AM.


#30 Shelbythetriagularsquare

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 11:56 AM

 

...And its why I want the Apocalypse Tank integrated into standard Russia tech tree.

Yes please! Although it would cause some balance issues, the tesla cruiser is already one of the weakest T3 tanks so there's that. ( I think the Abrams can best the Tesla)

 

The Apocalypse is amazing, and I would love to use it in matches without having a soviet enemy.


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#31 Handepsilon

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:16 PM

Russian already got everything they need. Wolfhound, SCUD, Tesla (and don't forget that this version causes EMP on tanks). Apoc in the fold is just going to break the balance, especially with that infantry healing aura and tesla warheads


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#32 X1Destroy

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:56 PM

If only there's a clear way to make apoc and tesla having completely different roles then yes it should return to Russia as an exclusive unit. Right now both are anti-everything with tesla being weaker vs structures where as apoc is slower but wreck everything.

At the moment I used the ini and gave Russia an epic commander apoc that shoot mini nukes like nuwa, results aren't too bad.


Edited by X1Destroy, 22 January 2017 - 03:57 PM.

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#33 Shelbythetriagularsquare

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 04:07 PM

Could you please pm me the ini file that gives russia an Apocalypse tank by default?

 

Thanks!


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#34 DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 09:25 PM

Yes, only ground units.

 But just enemy units, right? If my own units or my ally's units were under that smoke cloud, would their firepower also decrease by 50%?



#35 Destroyencio

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 09:59 PM

 

Yes, only ground units.

 But just enemy units, right? If my own units or my ally's units were under that smoke cloud, would their firepower also decrease by 50%?

 

 

No, only enemies.



#36 TeslaCruiser

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 10:13 PM

Underused: genomine, epsilon planes, some basic tanks (russia, china, psicorps, hq, euro)
Overused: knightframes, irkalia, godsbane-giantbane, fin-alize, and last bastion hero (irkalia skin)

#37 Missingno50

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 11:26 AM

Hmm... might as well add my flame to the fire.

GENERAL

  1. ALL SMOKE THINGS - NEVER USED
    What the hell even are their purposes? They only cover up terrain for like, a second, do no damage, not even to infantry, and don't even really provide cover. Hell, even the AI won't touch 'em.

SOVIETS

  1. IRON DEFENSE - UNDERUSED
    The iron defense is A GREAT concept on paper, and executes very well. Except two issues. The price tag is too large for the recharge time/vice versa(I take vice versa as the second issue.) These things are great and even hold off T3 rushes pretty damn well, but the recharge time is too slow and it costs waay too much. Perhaps lowering the price and offering an expensive 3000$ boosting mechanism for all rechargeable powers would make this become used.
  2. DUST DEVIL - SEE GENERAL
    THIS FUCKING THING. I BOUGHT IT THE FIRST ROUND I WAS CONFEDERATIONS, LOST TWO OF THEM. "NO BIG DEAL", so I SOLD my airfield. Only 2 went down, and that left 2 still in the field somewhere. I was stuck with teams of 6 foxtrots instead of 8 because I wanted symmetry between all the airfield teams.

     
  3. FOXTROT - OVERUSED
    The foxtrot is balanced... well besides price. Maybe should be somewhere in the thousands, like the fucking DUST DEVIL! (Seriously this deserves to be bumped to either a T3 unit or increased price. Also while you're at it, make the dust devil a T1 and cheaper, because it serves no purpose.)
  4. GYROCOPTER - NEVER USED
    In all my time playing on CNCnet(which was about 6 hours, with 3 matches), I've never seen a China player besides me use it. I don't understand why they don't, but I'm the only one that uses it. And I use it mainly for defense. Recommendation:Boost health, boost speed, boost firepower, lower tier. Seriously it's pretty damn weak and only acts as a good anti-infantry weapon in numbers. Still serves as a great counter to those Rocketeer peasants. You can get ROCKETEERS BEFORE THESE THINGS, and not only that, ohh no, but the Rocketeers COST LESS. 850 VS 500, pretty sure that's easy to designate. (PS I've never used or even seen the price of a freakin rocketeer. I just know my enemy always gets a few before I can get a gyrocopter in the air.)
  5. CHINA - NEVER EVER FREAKIN USED IN THE HISTORY OF USAGE
    I appear to be the ONLY ONE that plays China. No joke, the only other time I've seen a China player is when I challenged someone to be a China player vs 3 hard AIs. In those 3 matches I've played, I've seen an expert Scorpion Cell player(probably cuz I suck at MO), Confederation players(x3), Russia Players(x5, WOLFHOUNDS EVERY FREAKIN WHERE ON TOP OF TELSA TANKS! PLEASE FUCKING GET RID OF TESLA TANKS AS THEY GET THROUGH MY DEFENSES WAAY TOO QUICKLY), and so on so forth. China needs a new way to sell itself, so I propose this. Make everything slightly weaker, but make it way more cheaper for China. As it stands, the slower tanks of China do absolutely nothing to a sudden SC rush or something similiar. (3 US players, 2 AI who were psi corps, 1 PSICORPS player, 4 EU players, 1 PF player, and god forbid, the rest be all sorts of shades of Fohenn.)
  6. Telsa Tanks - OVERUSED
    Okay this one is a no brainer. They're easy to build and swarm enemy defenses. Coupled with a swarm of wolf hounds, you have an uncrushable army.
  7. Wolfhounds - OVERUSED
    See above

I've yet to expirement with the other factions, but I have a feeling this list will grow from 8 to atleast 40.


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#38 GuardianGI

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 11:39 AM

I hate to say this... but Tesla Tanks need to be in huge numbers because they are weaker T3 tanks that are no match for most(if not all) other T3 tanks in a 1 on 1.

And did you say they are good against defenses? Which kind of defenses are you referring to? Also, they hate static defenses, same case with wolfhounds...

By the way... the smoke-related stuff are supposed to be a -50% attack debuff complement, not something meant to be on its own.


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#39 Handepsilon

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 11:46 AM

Dustdevil is a bit of too expensive for something that basically only debuff stuff, imo


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#40 CLAlstar

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 11:49 AM

1. If you complain about SUPPORT buildings/units dealing no damage... Are you a RA2 multiplayer veteran by any chance?

 

2. Iron Guard underused? I see those in every single game against soviets when superweapons are on. But hey, structure making your tanks in area invulnerable is pretty meh, amirite?

 

3. You complain about Dustdevils because they broke your Airpad unit symmetry, oke.

 

4. Foxtrots are NOT ballanced.

 

5. China and "Noone plays it". I know at least 12 players who would prove you otherwise. Also, Gyro's main power is splash damage and better anti-air damage.

 

6. You do realize that Tesla Cruisers do jack shit against buildings?

 

7. Issue of wolfhound spam being broken was fixed even back in 3.0 by players actually making anti-air units. Hell, even in 3.3 they got nerfs against defenses.






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