427 replies to this topic

[qymon]

Nothing.

but "nothing" seems too worthless....what about reset some support powers' timer just like the effect to MU/SC/ROCC , Nanofiber Loom, or other buildings?

(but which support powers to reset seemingly need to have a consider to keep balance

[Hmshark]

 

So..... you mean to tell me it was intended to have the MADMAN as a mainstay of the Hailhead army just like how the Centuion is core to the Chinese army, even though for China and HQ their epic unit comes at a cost in some aspect of gameplay such as a spamable Artiliery unit for China and of course the slow movement speed.
Hail head has no such handicaps..... they have spammable arty units, instant infantry kill, a T3 monster that can't be mind controlled, two hero units that heal each other at an insane rate, bounty, and on top of that, they can just cheese 1v1s by building what is essentially a better super weapon on wheels, keep it alive indefinitely using minermites, and end the game at a point where most people would just be getting three or four monster tanks out?

The Mutually of the Mutally Assured Destruction part doesn't seem right here.

I think Speeder means that you're not suppose to build it when you're falling behind severely and the enemy is right at your base.

MADMAN is probably the worst possible unit to be building if you're looking for a comeback.

"Oh man, my opponent's army is at my base, I better build a MADMAN and deploy it. Hurr durrhead"

 

 

MADMAN is like the best comeback unit. If you are able to get one out after you withstand a big attack and before they finish you off, then you can use your leftover minermites to escort the madman to the enemy base and win the game.

[DarkEmblem]

I also suggest another nerf for Foehn it's grid. Currently it's cheap, costs a TINY amount of power. (Especially since foehn gets a lot of power out of windtraps),it builds pretty quickly AND it doesn't get removed after it's used in contrary to mines.
 

What this does is allowing the user to completely spam them all over the place. Even when giving them time to arm(which is not going to happen) before they even solve most of the problems. 

 

Why? Because this is how it currently and in the next patch will work:

 

The foehn player places the grid front of your army your army doesn't have THAT much time to react and they are basically disabled for the entire fight (which is in my opinion pretty much as strong as an EMP mine current patch) after the fight, they will just get killed off. 

The fact stands, that even when units are on that grid, it doesn't go away after being used. Which is basically even stronger than a EMP mine.

 

It's also highly spammable due to both the price and power requirement, thus the foehn player can just spam it all over their base. (I've seen people do this)

 

Now you're thinking "atleast it's going to be able to be auto-engaged by units in the next patch" but that is part of a new problem.
What is it going to be next patch? Cannon fodder? Let's say you have detection and you're playing against a foehn player who created a few stungrids. To make it worse, let's make the Foehn player the subfaction Last Bastion.  Now think of this. Between you and your opponents base there is this. In the back, a plasmerizer. Next to it there is your opponents army and in front of that army is  a spam of stungrids. 

 

Now as epsilon you've got a few choices here.

You're going to pick off the stungrids (which are replaceable), waste a lot of time on killing them while getting shot at by a plasmerizer. (or you keep walking backwards when the plasmerizer is almost ready to shoot, dodging the shots, but wasting a lot of time, unless the plasmerizer is forced to shoot at the ground, then you're fucked anyway.) 

Not just that, but basically the Foehn player is able to (re)build an army while you're doing all this, basically making your offensive play useless.

Or you decide to go in, waste projectiles on stungrids which act as cannon fodder and you basically die because your army keeps attacking the grids.

 

Or you decide to go in, (Army gets prioritized over stungrid in this case), your projectiles attack the enemy army, but your melee (brutes mostly, or maybe your projectile shooters walk forward because they're chasing units) decides to run in and everything gets stunned and basically half your army is disabled, and in an even worse situation, your infantry is getting stunned by stungrids while your vehicles get rekt by godsbanes. There is absolutely nothing you can do against a defensive foehn.

 

Now, a stungrid DOES work on power, if your power is down, your grid doesn't work. BUT IT HARDLY USES ANY POWER. The time when it actually stops working, is hardly ever! People usually make sure to get enough power to have some as back up incase they lose any, or they just have extra power after trying to basecrawl using power plants.

Things I suggest to nerf the grids

Solution 1:

-Greatly (Greatly, in case it wasn't clear) Increase power requirement (Make it hard to have 3-4 stun grids on the field)

-Increase build time

-Increase price

-Reduce health

 

Solution 2:

-Make it "one building" aka, one part of the grid gets destroyed, all of it gets destroyed.

 

Solution 3:

- Make the stungrid slow units down by 25-50% instead of stunning units. Which is actually a much more interesting thing for me than of some obnoxious stunfield.

Change name to "Slow grids" / "Disruption grids" / "Slug grids" or anything similar to that kinda shiet.

-Make sure that opposing units prioritize the Foehn's army over the grid.

 

Now I don't want to make people think that I am talking about "overnerfing" or "Changing too much".

In fact, the contrary. I want to help making this game as "balanced" as can be. And with my current multiplayer experience I believe I can help greatly with this.

Right now, I play a LOT of online multiplayer games, thus I experience most of these things within the game which is what I base my opinion on.

Also, do remember that Foehn is a very new faction. You can't expect it to be balanced right away or for it to be "almost perfect", thus only expecting to have to make small changes to actually balance it. Adding a new faction to the game with new mechanics can be very time consuming and can introduce great imbalances, thus big adjustments/changes are possible to exist. You can't always stick with something that was there, sometimes you'll have to replace things.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 26 May 2017 - 01:18 AM.

[TeslaCruiser]

Yeah I almost prefer grids the way they are now, invisible spammable cannon fodder sounds like cancer

[DarkEmblem]

Yeah I almost prefer grids the way they are now, invisible spammable cannon fodder sounds like cancer

 Yeah, the new change is probably going to make them worse than they already are.

Hope Speeder atleast puts some thought to the solutions I have given. :v

 

Also, I just want to say.. Magnetrons have a higher chance than afaik any other unit to get stuck in a warfactory. (Nothing can come out of there anymore, and the magnetron can't leave)

Might want to take a look at it.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 26 May 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[TeslaCruiser]

Kirovs;
I find the lack of Kirovs disturbing
I mean, they are good, I build them evri time (not really) some people use them as sneaky bombers, others just to force AA, both are great ideas. I like to keep one Kirov around because they eat damage and are fine Soviet aircraft
But... they are a rare sight.
How about more reasons to build blimps? -Yes, I have a Kirov Suggestion:
Kirov gets a small aura, something like Thor. This aura slightly decreases armor or speed to enemy air units.
This way you have a new incentive to keep a few blimps around and the unit gains a supportive ability.  It also resembles the real life purpose of blimps

[NorthFireZ]

Errrrrrrrrrrr Anti-air for Kirovs is kind of neat as an idea, especially against the tragedy that is Coronia. BUT, and this is a huge but, air to air combat in this mod really doesn't take that much of the gameplay (unless you're playing Russia vs EA or something). Kirovs with that small radius would still be really underused. So, what can we do? 

 

I'm assuming most people here played Generals. I want to point specifically to China and their propaganda mechanic. but then again, the propaganda mechanic is already currently in MO. Two units have this healing aura that only affects infantry, the Drakuv and the Apocolypse. Both are limited, which is a good thing, but going by the logic that a mass healing aura would be overpowered as hell and only certain units can get access to such auras.... Make a support power for the Soviets that allow Blimps to also broadcast propaganda (or whatever it's called in MO) underneath them alike the Thor deploy. Make this ability tied to the Airfield (you'll finally have a reason to build it now) and make it as long as a Quetzal armor buff would. 

 

Based on what I have seen in the mod, I do believe this is possible to do. MO has already shown the ability to attach effects (irradiation for China), and the Quetzal buff proves that such effects CAN affect air units. (Although in the Quetzal's case it's only a simple armor buff). 

 

If that isn't possible, we can also give a spotlight for the Kirov. Yes, a spotlight, for mobile single target spy detection used defensively that also have the same effect of reducing damage. Both of these give the Kirov a little flair they didn't have before. Dunno, tell me what you think about these. People were really pissed off at a simple 200+ health for the Kirov so I'd imagine any suggestions to buff the Kirov would have less than stellar reception. 

[asdfghjk]

I'm going to echo Dark's thoughts about grids. I've had several games where I've had a Foehn player on the ropes but been unable to do anything due to wading into grids being expressly suicidal even when you have overwhelming odds on your side. It's particularly a problem for PsiCorps who can't advance due to lacking an efficient way of removing the grids (no splash), but then the Foehn player won't want to push out of his base and walk into Magnetrons, so you get a stalemate and a game which should've been over dragging on for another 10 minutes with nothing happening until someone builds a superweapon or runs out of money.

Another idea would be to make grids slowly damage themselves when "firing" so units aren't permastunned and the grid owner has to make at least some effort to kill them before they're freed. Right now there's little point in getting involved at all, since it's more advantageous to let the attacker waste clicks on killing their own trapped units while you do something else.

[TeslaCruiser]

Was a 200+? people was pissed off because 200 is a big number and they are bad at maths. One guy was mad because one mission LMAO. Maybe reading the full changelog could have helped them...
Health Buff isn't really necessary I think, Kirov isn't underused because of lack of health, it is because of its limited functions. Other things are much more necessary/useful

Kirov Healing Aura sounds a bit unnecessary, drakuv is already there and cheaper. Although having the quetzal shield functionality could be nice, something with a timer can be stronger while balanced.
*Kirov EMP anti-air pulse. Insta kill all enemy air units 20 range cost 1500 6:00 recharge >:v ... (joke)

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 26 May 2017 - 04:27 AM.

[NorthFireZ]

Well, Drakuv isn't affected by the industrial plant and is only possible to get by spawning. The Kirov is only 1875 with the plant and can be spawned indefinitely. I'd think a healing buff would be pretty neato, but I guess it's not that big of a deal since it doesn't repair vehicles as well. ¯\_ツ_/¯ I think a spotlight will still be neat since no Soviet unit currently have that functionality. 

 

Still, we were just talking about an ability like a quetzal armor up, why don't we do a speed buff like they did in RA3? Call it Volatile Fuel Intake, have the Kirovs gain a 3x speed boost (slightly faster than a Wolfhound) on a limited timer. Fast as fuck boi?  

Edited by NorthFireZ, 26 May 2017 - 04:41 AM.

[Speeder]

Speed of flying units that come out of War Factories can't be modified during the game.

[CLAlstar]

Grid real problem is lack of being autoaquired when detected. Thats fixed in 3.3.2 - it should not be as problematic as before if you have stealth detection.

[DarkEmblem]

Grid real problem is lack of being autoaquired when detected. Thats fixed in 3.3.2 - it should not be as problematic as before if you have stealth detection.

You didn't read my entire post

[TeslaCruiser]

So, GhostMiners
Watching Alstar's last videos I got this thought again. Isn't it the Ghostminer too good against T1 infantry? He can drive over them without any consequence (the only drawback being losing a bit of mining time)

I had not wanted to comment on this because it is obviously more relevant in Soviet-Epsilon combat. Soviets have both crushable infantry and no detectors until T2.
Overall I can't see the purpose of crushability in Ghostminers they are already invisible and without any drawback whatsoever. That should be enough. Their ability to crush infantry should be removed IMO

[DarkEmblem]

So, GhostMiners
Watching Alstar's last videos I got this thought again. Isn't it the Ghostminer too good against T1 infantry? He can drive over them without any consequence (the only drawback being losing a bit of mining time)

I had not wanted to comment on this because it is obviously more relevant in Soviet-Epsilon combat. Soviets have both crushable infantry and no detectors until T2.
Overall I can't see the purpose of crushability in Ghostminers they are already invisible and without any drawback whatsoever. That should be enough. Their ability to crush infantry should be removed IMO

 

I actually think that as long as the scatter button exists, this really isn't that big of a problem. Not only does the miner sometimes have problems with actually crushing units, in my opinion, the time spent killing some conscripts with a miner really isn't worth it. 
Like you said, no detectors until t2, so there won't be many miners on the field either. Which is exactly why the miner actually needs to be mining instead of driver after scattering conscripts.

[TeslaCruiser]

 

So, GhostMiners
Watching Alstar's last videos I got this thought again. Isn't it the Ghostminer too good against T1 infantry? He can drive over them without any consequence (the only drawback being losing a bit of mining time)

I had not wanted to comment on this because it is obviously more relevant in Soviet-Epsilon combat. Soviets have both crushable infantry and no detectors until T2.
Overall I can't see the purpose of crushability in Ghostminers they are already invisible and without any drawback whatsoever. That should be enough. Their ability to crush infantry should be removed IMO

 

I actually think that as long as the scatter button exists, this really isn't that big of a problem. Not only does the miner sometimes have problems with actually crushing units, in my opinion, the time spent killing some conscripts with a miner really isn't worth it. 
Like you said, no detectors until t2, so there won't be many miners on the field either. Which is exactly why the miner actually needs to be mining instead of driver after scattering conscripts.

 

Maybe, but balancing something around that kind of reasoning isn't the best, still no answer to the question. Crushing ability is not needed and easily exploitable.

I also think Gosthminers should have some kind of weakness, they have the armor, the speed, the load + invisible. They should reveal themselves for a bit longer or more frequently at least

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 26 May 2017 - 07:06 PM.

[DarkEmblem]

Warminers are useful for fighting armies beyond t2, because their turret is actually pretty useful.

Mites have an op repair + spinblade

Chronominers can remove terror drones themselves and chrono out of danger AND are much more useful for longdistance mining due to chrono.

 

I actually think shadowminers are fine, because they have nothing beyond their invisibility and are pretty much fucked / harmless when there is any stealth detection.

I do approve of the longer un-stealth though. So that atleast makes them vulnerable against jets like any other miner.

[TeslaCruiser]

Yeah, I agree. The thing is ghostminers are quite impervious on early game.
Minermites are broken
Warminer weapon is decent against infantry but unless you want to use them as fodder in an all-in assault they are quite useless after the heavy weapons are unlocked.
Chrono advantage is paid in storage capacity, at the beginning when the money is near they are the worst miner AFAIK

[mevitar]

Chrono Miners have halved storage because they dump ore twice as often as War Miner and Ghost Miner. Long-term mining rate should be the same.

[BlackAbsence]

I've told you guys that Ghost miners are way too impervious to jet attacks, and even if they did de-cloak longer, it'll still be hard. I can see the player now, constantly commanding their jets over an ore patch, tediously waiting... giving enough time for an anti air squad to shoot 'em, still.

What'd I do, instead of making the Ghost Miner more equivalent to the other miners, I'd make the other miners more equivalent to the Ghost Miner, as in, making the other miners more impervious to jet attacks. I suggested this awhile ago: Give War Miners a flak cannon - Chrono Miners could phase-lock deploy like that AE hero guy - Minermites move fast enough and they're expendable ? ? ? ?

 

I'm not too keen about the Gharial becoming mind-controllable; I thought it was suppose to be 'the best infantry protection vehicle' in the game, mind control is over-powered enough, and a faction revolving around large expensive tanks SHOULD have a good mind control counter, imo :| Otherwise, hey, all your assets belong to Yuri now. 

Edited by BlackAbsence, 26 May 2017 - 09:18 PM.