264 replies to this topic

[Roderick]

Which are the figures now in terms of hp per marine, morale per squad, the bonus per fall of a squad member etc.? If BClaws are starters, perhaps a nerf based around the accuracy in melee combat (they are not so skilled). 

 

I know that the game seems very oriented to a reinforcement on the fly, but I think is not so narrowed to not allow alternative rules. Let's see anyway.

Edited by Roderick, 22 September 2017 - 09:30 AM.

[Gambit]

If everyone had it, would that not devalue the mechanic in the wolves mod?

Ah, wait, you mean that we plan Space Wolves to ONLY reinforce near buildings??

If yes, then OK, wincondition idea dropped.

[fuggles]

Currently it's simple, each member adds -100 points, so I think blood claws have 1000 as they are a squad of 5. At full strength they have 500hp each and get more resilient as they go along.

[Roderick]

How do they compare to other marine troops in these terms?

Edited by Roderick, 22 September 2017 - 12:18 PM.

[fuggles]

They have 450 hp, come in squads of 9. Dreadnought effect gets them quite far but have relatively low dps.

[d.patch]

Well, as far as I played, I found the reinforcement issue very good for this faction, maybe it has to be polished but I cannot think a better way to do it right now so I'll consider it later. The Fenrisian Wolves are very original (considering you have made them, it would be awesome to think in adding Thunderwolf Cavalry with the model of the Blood Claw riding the wolf) but I think they have no attack, I've sent them several times against different races infantry and the health of the enemy doesn't seem to be reduced. 

As far I know, the Space Wolves Scouts are veteran of the chapter but their cost is a little less than the usual Scouts being far better than them.

Good implementation to the Wolf Lord who now can add wolves but I would consider also the possibility to add some Wolf Guards, maybe 2 or 3, because they would be very powerful.

About the Blood Claws, I don't know what to say more than it has been said, but maybe considering they are Space Wolves Neophytes,and as they can't reinforce and they are expensive and time demanding, I'll add them one or two more members.

I'll wait to play it more to speak about more funcionalities and balance issues, but I've felt maybe a bit overpowered in comparison with the rest factions of SS, but only a feeling and I could be wrong.

 

About other issues, the Plasma Cannon of the Long Fangs shoots a big pink block so a problem there. Then, the Lone Wolf have little melee dmg and better range dmg, and the animation of the melee attack is like he was capturing a point and the range attack lacks of animation. I suppose they are made to have a really strong melee dmg and also I think they are WIP so maybe I'm talking too much 

 

Well, that's all for the moment, It's my first time testing in this forum so any mistake or maybe silly consideration I've done, tell me please. Good vibes with the development of the faction, I've enjoyed a lot even more than te 0.63 version.

[Roderick]

I find that the bloodclaws have an average cost per unit but they are slower to build than other squads. Considering that the squad is costly because it starts with more members than the average (hence you have to wait to gather resources until getting them), the time of building is an extra handicap. Half of it would be the right thing (see below).

 

I have made a small table with compared parameters between SM and SW looking at them in game, not in the AE. Not too deep, just the t1 squads. I have put in bold those values who are the most discrepant. You'll notice that the HP per marine is above the average and the time of building too. Somebody else can check them too?

 

https://www.mediafir...atistics_SW.xls

Edited by Roderick, 22 September 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[fuggles]

Dpatch - you are not using the attributes from a few posts up.

[Kekoulis]

Brothers,while I have managed to get it working,after some minutes of playing,I get Fatal AI errors(with Unification) and SCAR errors standalone(with stormbringer on but I can't turn it off either way.). Is that because I am using the aforementioned 0.64 version without AI?

 

 

Okay then, in lieu of any other backup system I present 0.64 beta beta. It lacks AI and any real testing, but you know, see how you get on ymmv.

https://www.mediafir...pace_Wolves.zip

That one.

 

I have installed the attributes provided. In both I am using the standard win conditions along with quick-start resources.

Thanks you for your patience brothers! Any help is welcomed!

Edited by Kekoulis, 22 September 2017 - 07:51 PM.

[Roderick]

It's because you're playing against them and the ai is not fully made. You need to play with them for now.

 

Also quick-start masks a lot of the problems in the game aperture so it's better to rely on default game, no unification, just Soulstorm. 

[fuggles]

Use the attributes from the last page. They patch 0.64.

I never balance around quick start, only 1v1 normal.

Edited by fuggles, 22 September 2017 - 09:19 PM.

[Kekoulis]

 

It's because you're playing against them and the ai is not fully made. You need to play with them for now.

Nope,I play AS the Wolves.

 

Use the attributes from the last page. They patch 0.64.

I never balance around quick start, only 1v1 normal.

Thank you man! I really did not expect this. You see,I usually run quick-start and left it as it is. Also,I ran the previous games with AI allies,so it all makes sense now! Will fix this right now.

Edited by Kekoulis, 22 September 2017 - 09:58 PM.

[Gambit]

Nope,I play AS the Wolves.

Even then, there is a good possibility the other races to have problematic AI folders.

 

Worry not brothers, I will take care of it after the next build.

[Roderick]

Fuggles, care to explain the formula behind the hp? I see that tweaking the values, they are quite high for a single unit, I eventually get negative values. Is it related to the improvement when there are losses?

Edited by Roderick, 22 September 2017 - 11:19 PM.

[fuggles]

Yes. They are better than other marines, so blood claws have 500hp. -100hp is for ease, but can be tweaked. As such 500 + (squad size * 100). I've slightly added additional hp to grey hunters and sky claws. Sgts need more hp to avoid going into negative.

[Gambit]

OK, I noticed many folder structure inconsistencies as well... (that is why there is no howling).

So, let me finish with the next Unification upload (we DO have a new place now, hold on), and I will move to Space Wolves.

I will wait for your next complete build, so that to fix that and re-upload a fixed (AI, Howling, folder structure etc.) complete build

[Roderick]

Thanks, where do I find the modifier per squad members?

 

I was trying to get a comparison in that table posted above but this formula changes a little the values. Nonetheless the equivalent HP per marine (in case of simple addition) is above average, but I don't know if this isn't so straightforward to compare.

 

What I've seen is that adjusting the building time per marine to the standard values of the SM you get a capable t0 squad for bloodclaws. In the current implementation you have to wait a lot. I will give a proposal for these values (yet not touching the hp, although I think they are quite harder than they should) to get a more agile aperture.

 

In a more general sense, I think that the SW need to be oriented to a quick, effective use and taking advantage of the initially full squads; you don't want to turtle with them and wait for the enemy to reinforce. If the enemy is able to resist, they lose momentum and the squad vs squad gets more tied and in the long run they lose, unless the squad building time is capable to provide another to reposition the decreased squad. The rule of becoming stronger per loses lessens this effect, though. I think there's room to adjust parameters for I've yet to see a SW squad becoming surpassed to need another one to replace them. 

Edited by Roderick, 23 September 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[fuggles]

The health modifier is in the wolves_health_nerf ability. More generally this could be cloned to give a more tailored value per squad type. I appreciate all help in making this work - can you oe the chain sword to work in melee?

[Roderick]

It's my intention to work in mid term for the models, so yes, you're not alone but I think the AE is easy to tackle first. I can do something with wolves meanwhile, however.

[d.patch]

Dpatch - you are not using the attributes from a few posts up.

 

Sorry man, totally my fault.

 

I've been using the new attributes and have a few impressions. Maybe the price of Grey Hunters is too high because in early game you can't rely on a solid range unit as fast as other factions, considering a start with blood claws and scouts to capture fast, The previous version I played from you was more balanced in that aspect. Also the plasma cannons keep launching pink blocks but I suppose you have noted it.

 

 

 

In a more general sense, I think that the SW need to be oriented to a quick, effective use and taking advantage of the initially full squads; you don't want to turtle with them and wait for the enemy to reinforce. If the enemy is able to resist, they lose momentum and the squad vs squad gets more tied and in the long run they lose, unless the squad building time is capable to provide another to reposition the decreased squad.

 

This is what describes better my feelings playing as I've been overpassed some times because of the the building time or the price of some units.

 

The wolves are working fine and I think their role is just perfect right now, the wolf guard is also fine so no more complaints