376 replies to this topic

[Divine]

I have faith in these minimal changes, heavy handed rebalancing always ends badly. It's better to implement multiple small changes over the durations of several versions, and have some time to observe their effects. Although, Mental Omega is rarely updated, and this tactic would arguably work better if there were smaller but more frequent updates.

[PACER]

I have faith in these minimal changes, heavy handed rebalancing always ends badly. It's better to implement multiple small changes over the durations of several versions, and have some time to observe their effects. Although, Mental Omega is rarely updated, and this tactic would arguably work better if there were smaller but more frequent updates.

 

Unlike starcraft where a up-to-date version is necessary in order to join multiplayer battles, MO allows people to play with older versions or even unofficial configs (so long as they use the same one). With proper beta tests, I believe less released versions work better for the game overall. Frequent patches in MO bring more troubles than benefits. So for wiki workers. So for map makers. So for game crackers.

[Tathmesh]

It might work if MO is refined to certain stable meta after a few patches.

 

StarCraft 1 stayed mostly the same for years and its competitive scene was still "balanced", even though several late game units are obviously overpowered. For example, Ultralisks have the speed of Jackals and the health of Mastodons. You can abuse Arbiter's stasis ability by rendering a unit invulnerable for TWENTY-EIGHT SECONDS to block off a ramp. 

 

With a few tweaks, MO might be able to reach a similar point.

Edited by Tathmesh, 22 January 2018 - 10:41 PM.

[TeslaCruiser]

So, there are no Pteranodon changes at the changelog. Not just that but WoC is getting some notable Buffs. I would like to see some kind of exchange between these Buffs and the single most overused unit at WoC arsenal.
The community had suggested various ways to tweak the Pteranodon I think the best idea is to reduce its AoE.
And, yes, I know about AA buffs, but those buffs aren't incredibly strong neither extensive enough to justify this kind of overpowered unit.
Pteranodon problem is its mobility combined with its High damage-AoE, armor, there is a point, a certain level of spam where AA units can't fight back because they die instantly. The exception being the flying AA units for obvious reasons, and the Aeroblazer which happens to be another overpowered unit.
This behavior means the results of certain tests - X cost Unit A v X cost Unit B- can show a partial truth because the result when X is 20k is now contradictory to X= 40K. So the behavior is not linear, that is what I'm trying to say.
 Why does that happen? because the unit flies and you can see 20 or more of them flying together dealing the full damage every single strike.
A reduction to its AoE can keep the unit good at Hit and run but force a more cautious usage. And at the same time prevent the spam meta.

[Damfoos]

Or we can do a radical thing and prevent them from bunching together on just one cell, I remember US helicopters in Red Resurrection had it when they were first added.

[Handepsilon]

prevent them from bunching together on just one cell

Wait, won't that prevent AAs from being able to nuke them all at once?

[Damfoos]

It will, but it will also limit their maximum damage output as you won't be able to get 50 of them firing at once.

[Death_Kitty]

Very happy with a lot of these changes (i still lurk here, believe it or not.)

-tanya ifv needed to go

- SC and LC got much needed changes

-there may be an issue with suppressors as currently stated.

 

A lot of these buffs and nerfs seem to be token changes that wont do much. 

-rocketier will still be utter garbage. it needs a dps buff.

-Wings of Coronia will still be utterly broken.

like why does the pteranodon do splash? Please explain that to me? It can fly. The only tier 3 tanks that do splash are the nuwa and tyrant and those have some pretty nasty downsides, like crap movement and low armor, but this has NONE of that. throw in the roadrunner, designed to kill AA to A-move with pternodons, the harbinger tower (idk why WoC needs 2 superweapons... wait what, shoot it down? hahahaha as if.) the MYRIAD of options coronia can use to kill infantry and the new eureka, buffed arty and skystation, add in some signal inhibitors, so on and... yeah. broken beyond belief.

 

TBH i feel like foehn turned into the unbalancable "oh lets put all the cool ares features in 1 faction" faction. I dont mean to insult anyone, and I'm very happy with the mod for the most part, but i refuse to really get into this mod while coronia is still in it current state.

 

WoC needs to lose so many of its splash options with the exception of the tarchia. I would be very happy with it then. It would be a nice subfaction, with a clear weakness, like all the other faction in the game. Make harbinger a anti unit call in to make up for lack of spash, and reduce its damage to buildings and PLEASE let there be some clear indication where it is going to make its attack run, like some smoke or something like that (at least give this). pteranodon splash needs to go, roadrunner splash needs to go. 

Edited by Death_Kitty, 23 January 2018 - 01:31 PM.

[Divine]

Aircraft being able to occupy the same cell is stupid to begin with, but IIRC it's been that way since the beginning of C&C. Obviously, the goal was to prevent aircraft from sperging out when used in blobs. C&C was never intended for mass spam of blimp aircraft. I mean even the Kirov was made expensive and a niche unit for a good reason.

[Solais]

I'm all for Rocketeers getting a damage buff, because they are already my no1 method of winning most Allied campaign missions.

[Sizyfos31]

I'm all for Rocketeers getting a damage buff, because they are already my no1 method of winning most Allied campaign missions.

I actually spamed rocketeers in Stone Cold Crazy and they were great. Had to use Harriers for the end of the mission, of course.

 

 

Also, would it be sensible to buff Rocketeer's damage and reduce their hp to compensate? In case you don't want them to become stronger than intended.

Edited by Sizyfos31, 23 January 2018 - 02:54 PM.

[Destroyencio]

I don't think Rocketeer need an HP nerf considering how fast they die already.

[Tathmesh]

Buzzard change might make the Coronia death flock more broken than it already is.

The infantry paralyzer will basically prevent infantry AA from fighting back, depending on how big the radius is.

[Flandre]

I don't think Rocketeer need an HP nerf considering how fast they die already.

For once, I agree. Rockeeteers are too fragile and takes a few seconds of flank or AA to put them out.

[Graion Dilach]

Have you considered repurposing oldMalver/BladePsiSpy artwork as Hijacker or Infiltrator? IMO it would fit to any quite well and would also decrease the amount of pseudo-c'n'p infantry.

 

Yes, I know Infiltrator is RA2 Psi Commando, but that's just Yuri with the coat being recolored by Westwood, lol.

Edited by Graion Dilach, 23 January 2018 - 03:54 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

I’m just going to leave this here.

[Divine]

I’m just going to leave this here.

>spam rocketeers in MO
>use them to attack Sentinels, the AA with the biggest AoE
>use them against static AA
>ignore the elite flak trooper that probably killed as many Rocketeers by himself as the flak cannon battery next to it
>the flak cannon you attacked was probably accessible from the cliff bellow by Guardian GI's
 
You deserved every bit of this tbh.

Edited by Divine, 23 January 2018 - 07:52 PM.

[Battle Bee]

Would it be too drastic of a change to make Rocketeers more expensive, and them give them anti-vehicle weapons?

Edited by Battle Bee, 23 January 2018 - 08:00 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

I was testing rocketeers and their dps. It’s hard to isolate anti air units vs A.I so I used a campaign mission. That’s also why I specifically threw them against difficult targets.

[mrvecz]

I’m just going to leave this here.

 

So many pointless deaths, hurling them against anti aircraft units with splash ?

 

Hell, even harriers would be better, they would snipe it and gtfo back and then i would attack with rocketeers.

Or better, i would send those cavaliers to destroy them. They are outside of range of defences and probably before Quis get there the sentinels would be destroyed by cavaliers, and they could just ride away since Quins wont catch them. Baiting them out as bonus so you can take them out with harriers and then you can destroy the other sentinel, use harriers to blow up the bunker, slaughter the infantry with dogs or GI's, 

Then rush cavaliers and archons through the hole in the wall, ignoring the tesla coil and just park them next to the powerplants and blow them up. Then destroy the nuclear reactor and BAM, no power for anything except sentries. Then you can bring in the rockeeters and destroy enemy units.

 

Also you have like 68k worth of resources, why not spend that ?

------------

On the topic of Pteranodons, yes i think their AOE should be reduced.

 

EDIT: So the poster posted the same minute as i do explaining his actions, rocketeers will get fucked against AA, thats obvious misuse of the unit.

Edited by mrvecz, 23 January 2018 - 08:57 PM.