96 replies to this topic

[Handepsilon]

Nice joke there. Conscript will never be worth anything even if you amass 1000 of them. They'd be useless all the same

[Petya]

Nice joke there. Conscript will never be worth anything even if you amass 1000 of them. They'd be useless all the same

 

If you say so.

[Thesilver]

I don't know, they do pretty well against alize and yunru

Edited by Thesilver, 17 November 2018 - 07:33 PM.

[Divine]

I don't know, they do pretty well against alize and yunru

The next time I see Yunru or Alize coming at me by themselves I'll remember that.

 

/s

[Meyerm]

Or any infantry that can't attack infantry. Also useful fodder against mind control. 

[Handepsilon]

You'd better off using pyros against adepts or elites tho. They can't hurt each others

As for Masterminds, yeah sure

Edited by Handepsilon, 18 November 2018 - 03:52 AM.

[OfficialLolicon]

Nice joke there. Conscript will never be worth anything even if you amass 1000 of them. They'd be useless all the same

Not really... They're good in urban combats for early zone control by garrisoning buildings.

They're great if put in a battle bunker (especially choke points, but this really situational tho) and they're the fastest basic infantry to be trained (other than dogs/spooks) so you can clearly spam for early control. They're bad at head on battles, yes, but they have alternative means to be useful.

 

Also, at least 3-5 conscripts can destroy a stinger, so I can imagine 1000 can be useful somewhere

[Thesilver]

The only real purpose in multiplayer is garrisons and cannon fodder, hoping they take tons of anti tank damage, they cost 50 so having 30 of them in your army is almost nothing of an investment. As for fighting themselves in T1 anti infantry roles they are just not good enough, they have the numbers, but their speed and their range is incredibly lacking so its hard to take advantage of those numbers (and even if you do get all of them actually attacking the enemy they still don't do that much damage together). As for all the trouble that soviet T3 is giving people, their T1 is pretty weak compared to other factions. This is mostly because of the conscripts but it also doesn't help that the flak track isn't that great of an infantry killer either compared to what other factions have. Flak troopers also have low range but fine dps and AA (although i don't know why they became more expensive) Their standard tanks are fine though and the reason why flak troopers low range don't bring the faction down.

[Drezalnor]

I don't know, they do pretty well against alize and yunru

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The first part had me do atleast 20 double takes.
No Haihead player will be that big a moron as to let Alize out alone.Fin will be there,one step behind.So Thesilver,the situation with Alize is mostly theory.

Idk about Yunru,though.

[Drezalnor]

I think we are kinda getting off-topic. I started this thread as a musing that perhaps the entire concept of PsiCorps is bad to begin with. That while HQ and SC were built practically from scratch, PsiCorps is just a half-assed Yuri army with reworked magnetism.

I think we can all agree that the Magnetron is a great unit, perhaps a bit too great. One of the key goals of this mod was IIRC, to make not only factions but also units balanced, in a way that would prevent their faction from relying too much on a single one of them. While it is clear that this goal is not fulfilled in the case of the USA (Abrams) and LC (Catastrophe), I think this is the worst for PsiCorps. The kneejerk reaction would be to nerf the Magnetron and maybe it deserves some nerf, but that would completely break the entire faction due to the aforementioned dependance. I also noticed that of the four main factions, Epsilon has the fewest units, so there would be a room for expansion.

I think what PsiCorps needs is a bunch of new technologies, and a new doctrine. Right now HQ is a powerhouse faction, which is good, SC is subversive, which is good, and PsiCorps is some bastard child with a balanced, slightly glasscannon-ish early tech, and late tech that is slow like powerhouse, costs like glass cannon, hits like subversive and in general is very frustrating both to play as and against. I think PsiCorps should become a glass cannon faction entirely with traces of some subversion, retaining its mobility in late game, but also the fragility. Hit hard, hit fast, die easily. I think this sentiment would also fit the faction better lore-wise.

I would start by diversifying the Epsilon bombers first. Evolver should go to HQ, Siezer should be nerfed and go to PsiCoprs, and a new chemical bomber should go to SC. SC's Toxin Strike ability should be replaced with something else to prevent redundancy.

Spoiler

How about a "Decoy Drill"? It would be a little robotic drill summoned from the edge of the map drilling towards the target, making a minor explosion when it surfaces. Its use would be to confuse the enemy, obviously.

I would continue by trashing the Mastermind -it would remain in the campaign to some degree but in-lore it shouldn't go beond prototype phase. I'd also keep it as a crate goodie. The Dybbuk Siezer would take over the late-game mind control ability, though as a fragile aircraft, it should be faster but also easier to kill than a Mastermind in a deathblob. I would nerf the Magnetron by taking away its ability to harm buildings completely, and instead adding a dedicated siege unit to PsiCorps, preferably one that also has some use as an anti-armor unit (see my "Juggernaut" unit idea). I'd also add a new Libra. The current one should remain in the campaign, or at least up to a point in Act 2. The new Libra should not be the queen of nade noobs but instead use telekinesis exclusively to ruin the day of her victims. Flip tanks from afar, tear down structures, tear apart infantry limb from limb, you know. A flying infantry in tier 2 for harrassment (see my "Seraphim" unit idea), a reworked or completely repalced Gehenna, and a tier 3 monster that is a regular fighting unit instead of some gimmicky crap.

Divine,I concur with you on several points.Though I feel,the PsiCorps doctrine should be "Hit hard,hit slow,die hard."

PsiCorps could do with a reshaping of it's tech-tree.In place of the Mastermind,we could have a heavy aircraft-the Dybbuk Manipulator.It'll be slower than the Mastermind but be able to MC four enemies instead of three.The range could be somewhat more.

As for a SC exclusive bomber-let's call it the Dybbuk Defiler.It will have a payload of bombs loaded with chemotoxins and powerful explosives,giving it anti-infantry and anti-structure capability.I'll elaborate on these ideas later.

I'm trying to think of a stolen tech unit that could potentially replace the Dybbuk Seizer.

Don't forget my ideas for the Nephilim Hive and the Lacenna Platform(though the latter one is being worked upon).

Edited by Drezalnor, 18 December 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[Polaris Starnor]

Isn’t the heavy faction for epsilon already HQ?
As for this Dybbuk Manipulator, no, just no.
SC doesn’t really need a jet, although SC could use an adjustment to the mantis tank’s ability, and reversing the tyrant firepower buff, a jet that simulates the toxic strike to an extent doesn’t seem so fitting.
I can see the seizer getting replaced, but I would have no idea what, the most I can think of is a well needed infantry healer for epsilon, but it seems too late game to get as much use.

[Drezalnor]

Isn’t the heavy faction for epsilon already HQ?
As for this Dybbuk Manipulator, no, just no.
SC doesn’t really need a jet, although SC could use an adjustment to the mantis tank’s ability, and reversing the tyrant firepower buff, a jet that simulates the toxic strike to an extent doesn’t seem so fitting.
I can see the seizer getting replaced, but I would have no idea what, the most I can think of is a well needed infantry healer for epsilon, but it seems too late game to get as much use.

HQ is an assertive monster,yes.

I think I said that I would elaborate on those ideas,Polaris.You possibly missed that part.

A few alterations to the Mantis would help SC early in the game,yeah.

I have an idea for the Seizer replacement-but it needs a lot of polishing.

[Thesilver]

 

I don't know, they do pretty well against alize and yunru

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The first part had me do atleast 20 double takes.
No Haihead player will be that big a moron as to let Alize out alone.Fin will be there,one step behind.So Thesilver,the situation with Alize is mostly theory.

Idk about Yunru,though.

 

joke----

 

 

 

 

your head 1 month ago----

[Polaris Starnor]

Yes you said you’d elaborate but for the little I know, this Dybbuk Manipulater is basically a better mastermind that flies, which is completely unnecessary. And for the Dybbuk Defiler, all I know is that it’d be an improved toxic strike jet, which while not enough for me to get a strong opinion on, is enough for me to reject.

[Drezalnor]

I don't know, they do pretty well against alize and yunru

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The first part had me do atleast 20 double takes.
No Haihead player will be that big a moron as to let Alize out alone.Fin will be there,one step behind.So Thesilver,the situation with Alize is mostly theory.

Idk about Yunru,though.

joke----
 
 
 
 
your head 1 month ago----

That wasn't me-it was my lil bro.He knows but a few nuggets about MO,and the way he spouts to me his ridiculous suggestions is so annoying,I gave him quite a few thrashings.I had to keep my PC off limits for him after that fiasco.

[Drezalnor]

Yes you said you’d elaborate but for the little I know, this Dybbuk Manipulater is basically a better mastermind that flies, which is completely unnecessary. And for the Dybbuk Defiler, all I know is that it’d be an improved toxic strike jet, which while not enough for me to get a strong opinion on, is enough for me to reject.

Well,the Manipulator-I visualized it as moving more slowly than the present Mastermind,and with a somewhat lowered range,the only things in its favor are its aerial nature and its greater MC capability.

That's the issue with SC-their overt focus on chemical weaponry makes it hard to design a decent heavy aircraft for them.

[Divine]

 

Yes you said you’d elaborate but for the little I know, this Dybbuk Manipulater is basically a better mastermind that flies, which is completely unnecessary. And for the Dybbuk Defiler, all I know is that it’d be an improved toxic strike jet, which while not enough for me to get a strong opinion on, is enough for me to reject.

Well,the Manipulator-I visualized it as moving more slowly than the present Mastermind,and with a somewhat lowered range,the only things in its favor are its aerial nature and its greater MC capability.

That's the issue with SC-their overt focus on chemical weaponry makes it hard to design a decent heavy aircraft for them.

 

It wouldn't be hard at all, just take the toxin bomber and make the bombs explode like bloaticks.

[Drezalnor]

It took me a while-but I managed to think of a replacement for the Dybbuk Seizer in the Stolen Tech roster.

Spoiler

Divine had suggested that the Dybbuk Seizer be a PsiCorps-specific unit.The issue with that was a new unit would be needed to fill the gap left by it.It has to fit in with the philosophy of stolen tech units meant for Epsilon-subvertive,yet powerful.The best I could come up with was this.Let's take an aircraft and call it the Manticore.Weapons-three miniguns firing toxin shells and two plasma cannons.Equipment-Onboard Chimera Core.Range-9.5(Minigun),13.5(Plasma Cannon).HP-750.Armor-Medium Aircraft.Speed-7.5.The Chimera Core will dispower on attacking.It will have very poor anti-air capability.Voicefile-"You want something?","Hah,let's go!","Course plotted!","It's a good day to slay!","This will be grisly!","Die,scum!".The pilots sound cheerful with sinister undertones(Kind of like the GLA Rocket Buggies).

Here is the description-
Manticore
Subversion and heavy firepower make for a delectable combination-such has been the belief of many an Epsilon Proselyte.The quest for newer war machines with both these features led to the creation of several never before seen vehicles and aircraft,which gave the Epsilon Army many unconventional advantages against their enemies.However,a new aircraft was needed to supplement the Epsilon air force,ever since the Dybbuk Seizers began to be decommisioned and phased out.The answer lay in a prototype being sketched out on paper at that time.

Having designed a hull of moderate dimensions,three powerful Gatling guns were attached to it,which used shells loaded with a noxious cocktail of biotoxins.Two powerful plasma cannons were attached to the sides,drawing their energy from a sturdy Plasma Generator housed within.As for the engine,it was a pure marvel of aeronautic engineering,allowing the tolerably heavy aircraft to achieve punishing speeds.The installation of a Chimera Core completed this beast-the Manticore.

The new aircraft proved to be worth it's while during field tests.Armed with three Toxin Miniguns and two Plasma Cannons,it can deal with any foe it encounters with impunity.The Chimera Core enables it to approach enemies without giving away itself.Ironically,the Chimera Core also causes it trouble,for it dispowers as soon as the gunship's weapons are powered up.Additionally,the Manticore's weapons are ineffective against aircraft,so it must be escorted by anti-air forces.

[Divine]

I also sort of have a concept for a new stolen tech, following the idea that that kind of units should be most useful against the faction whose technology was stolen. For something that's stolen from Epsilon that would mean good anti-infantry capability and immunity to mind control. So I thought "Hey, the Stinger is kinda cool", and also "Scrin Tripods from TW are also cool".

 

Basically, I think of something like the fusion of the above-mentioned units, a Stinger on three legs and steroids, lots of steroids... with some sort of toxin grenade launcher, with warheads not unlike the Plague Splatter's, and maybe room for 3 infantry, one in each leg, who could use fireports. Obviously, the tripod being robotic, it would be mind control resistant.

 

The lore could be that Rashidi, having turned against Yuri, wanted to create a new heavy unit specifically to counter his mind control and infantry divisions. Being inspired by the Chinese Centurion, but recognizing its fatal flaws such as its enormous size and price, he designed a new unit based on his Stingers.

 

I like the name you came up for your aircraft, the "Defiler". Could fit any Epsilon unit, really, even this one. This tripod would be much smaller than the Centurion, and would also have a different arrangement of legs, think of either TW's tripods, or alternatively, the Strider from HL2, or even its concept art variants, and it would not be an epic unit. Probably also rather lightly armored but fast for its size.

Edited by Divine, 19 December 2018 - 08:37 PM.

[Polaris Starnor]

While usually stolen tech is the last thing you would do balance talk with, this Manticore takes things abit far, from what I can tell it’s a salamander with cloaking, improved firepower but no confusion, and a high movement,the Tripod seems interesting, but it feels more like a stolen tech from the soviets rather than from the epsilon.