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#341 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:20 PM

Earth is billions of years old. AOWR tried to argue against that with his little sun quote and got slammed into the ground.
It's a scientifically proven fact that the planet is 4.6 billion years old.

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Read these arguments for a young earth. They are lengths to other articles, with more facts.

1) The old-earth idea was developed historically, not from letting the physical facts speak for themselves but by imposing anti-biblical philosophical assumptions onto the geological observations. See this article http://www.answersin...alismChurch.asp and this DVD http://www.answersin...unt...=90-7-117 .

2) The radiometric dating methods are based on those same naturalistic, uniformitarian, anti-biblical assumptions and there is plenty of published evidence that they do not give valid dates. Besides the RATE research mentioned earlier, consider the well-researched arguments in The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods http://shop.gospelco...roduct/10-3-090 . You cannot expect this icon of evolution to be overthrown in a few short paragraphs.

3) John Morris’s book (The Young Earth) http://shop.gospelco...roduct/10-2-051 gives a good layman’s summary (with documentation and plenty of pictures to illustrate) of the some of the strongest evidences for a young-earth and global Flood. For more in-depth arguments see John Woodmorappe’s book (Studies in Flood Geology) http://shop.gospelco...roduct/10-3-075 . Excellent DVDs illustrating some of these points are on Mt. St. Helens (Mount St. Helens: Explosive Evidence for Catastrophe) http://shop.gospelco...roduct/30-9-063 and Grand Canyon (The Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood) http://shop.gospelco...roduct/30-9-062 . Creationist scientists (or any scientists, for that matter) don’t have answers to everything and so are continuing to do research (and the number of qualified creationist geologists is increasing), but following is some of the evidence brought out in these resources:

a) The almost complete absence of evidence of erosion or soil layers or the activity of living things (plant roots, burrow marks, etc.) at the upper surface of the various strata (showing that the stratum did not lay there for thousands or millions of years before the next layer was deposited).

b) Polystrate fossils (usually trees) that cut through more than one layer of rock (even different kinds of rock supposedly deposited over thousands if not millions of years). The trees would have rotted and left no fossil evidence if the deposition rate was that slow.

c) Soft-sediment deformation—that thousands of feet of sedimentary rocks (of various layers) are bent (like a stack of thin pancakes over the edge of a plate), as we see at the mile-deep Kaibab Upwarp in the Grand Canyon. Clearly the whole, mile-deep deposit of various kinds of sediment was still relatively soft and probably wet (not like it is today) when the earthquake occurred that uplifted one part of the series of strata.

d) Many fossils that show (require) very rapid burial and fossilization. For example, soft parts (jellyfish, animal feces, scales and fins of fish) or whole, large, fully-articulated skeletons (e.g., whales or large dinosaurs such as T-Rex) are preserved. Or we find many creatures’ bodies contorted. All this evidence shows that these creatures were buried rapidly (in many cases even buried alive) and fossilized before scavengers, micro-decay organisms and erosional processes could erase the evidence. These are found all over the world and all through the various strata.

e) The rock record screaming “Noah’s Flood” and “young earth.” The secular geologists can’t hear or see the message because of their academic indoctrination in anti-biblical, naturalistic, uniformitarian assumptions. The reason that most Christian geologists can’t see it is the same, plus the fact that they have believed the scientific establishment more than the Bible that they claim to believe is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. There are also thoroughly researched scientific refutations of skeptical objections to Noah’s Ark and the Flood here http://shop.gospelco...roduct/10-3-078 , which strengthen one’s faith in the biblical account of the Flood.

4) Creationists still have many challenges regarding the scientific evidence for a young universe, but distant starlight is no more of a problem for young-earth creationists than it is for big bang proponents, as this DVD by Dr. Jason Lisle (Ph.D. in astrophysics) http://www.answersin...ios/j_lisle.asp shows: Distant Starlight http://shop.gospelco...roduct/30-9-144 .

#342 MSpencer

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:23 PM

http://en.wikipedia....ge_of_the_Earth

Much better than any website which pushes agendas and tries to date the earth through the bible.
Many of the points you made there do not support anything, or instead support the true age of the earth, which through dating is assumed to be 4.597 billion years.
Also, let me just remind you, in geology, mostly the "young earth" proponents are viewed as quacks. Better to take the bible figuratively rather than literally, the evidence against the whole 6,000 year old myth is absolutely overwhelming.
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#343 chemical ali

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:31 PM

Never in my life cdmtx(YR) have I ever read such a bunch of crap. No real sources at all, just greedy churches wanting you to buy their dvds.
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#344 MSpencer

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:32 PM

One more little bit to put in here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaux

Easily these paintings, which date back from 13 - 25,000 BC, completely destroy the young earth "theory" (I hesitate to call it a theory, because it's pretty shaky to begin with).
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#345 Ash

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:32 PM

Anything which contradicts your religion is anti-biblical, it seems.

I love how biased your sources are. "Answers in Genesis", "shop.gospelcom.net". These are as biased as a political election statement. What Tory is going to say, "Oh, yes, Labour have a good chance this year."

Dude, that is something which I believe is called 'making the square peg fit in the round hole", not just by twisting things, but also by deliberately citing sources which support you. Then again, I almost think it's blatant advertising for that site. Apart from anything else, you can't tell me anythign those books said.

Any idiot worth his salt can mollycoddle a bunch of facts, grab a ton of urban myths and crocks of bullshit and twist them to be biblicalised. Mount Saint Helens is a volcano. When hot magma gases increase in pressure, you get an eruption. The Grand Canyon was formed by a river over many millions of years (and possibly in some degree aided by tectonic plate movement).

I'm no christian either, infact I'm the farthest from it save being Pagan (My dad was Pagan tho btw), but I do think there's something in there mentioning "do not bullshit", albeit maybe in more pleasant and poignant terms. These false citations show nothing. I'd like to know what basis those books were based. "Oh, a book told me." Yes. One book. Based on nothing. Versus a good ten or twenty years of painstaking scientific research, in hundreds of different volumes. Granted, it's still bookwork, but it's bookwork I hold more trust in.

This is profitless, though. Everything I say will go in one ear and out of the other.

#346 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 04:52 AM

Be back in 1 week. See yeah then.
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#347 Hostile

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:22 AM

Anything which contradicts your religion is anti-biblical, it seems.

I love how biased your sources are. "Answers in Genesis", "shop.gospelcom.net". These are as biased as a political election statement. What Tory is going to say, "Oh, yes, Labour have a good chance this year."

Why are the sources biased? Wouldn't it make sense to go to a christian site to research christian points of view? Makes as much sense as me doing research at science sites when trying to find items based on science.

Why is it that as soon as an idea or a site suggests religious affiliation, than it already deemed BS. That's seems to me reverse descrimination. So you're telling me it has to be on an accredited science site for it to have any validity?

#348 Mathijs

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 09:02 AM

I'm wondering.. if something we call ''God'' created the entities needed for the Big Bang, and with that, the universe, how the hell could the people who ''developed'' religions, long ago, know this? I think that believers are merely saying this to make the existance of a God more likely, even though this would never had been said during the time Christianity began. Think about it, would the men who wrote the Bible know that God created the energies needed for the Big Bang to occur? This only shows that religion changes all the time, and how can you put your heart and soul into believing something that changes continiously?

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#349 Ash

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 12:16 PM

Anything which contradicts your religion is anti-biblical, it seems.

I love how biased your sources are. "Answers in Genesis", "shop.gospelcom.net". These are as biased as a political election statement. What Tory is going to say, "Oh, yes, Labour have a good chance this year."

Why are the sources biased? Wouldn't it make sense to go to a christian site to research christian points of view? Makes as much sense as me doing research at science sites when trying to find items based on science.

Why is it that as soon as an idea or a site suggests religious affiliation, than it already deemed BS. That's seems to me reverse descrimination. So you're telling me it has to be on an accredited science site for it to have any validity?


Not necessarily. But isn't the idea to have an unbiased source? That's how science is supposed to work. The idea is that a theory is brought about, a hypothesis made, then that hypothesis is tested and either proven, disproven or advanced upon. I'd love to see what grounds these books are based upon, though there are no actual citations. It just links to an e-store for the book. And who here's gonna buy a book just to see if it backs up his statements? The science sites are all based on what is known and what has been proven. Otherwise, it's usually clearly labelled as theoretical, but perhaps based on proven theories X, Y, and Z.

This stuff is anecdotal evidence at best. I'd like to see the sources the authors of those books cited more so than the books themselves.


Creationism is effectively destroyed by mentioning the word 'Dinosauria', more specifically Compsongnathus longipes and Archaeopteryx. Shall I also mention Velociraptor, which is now thought to have feathers?
Let's also not forget the fact that back in the Jurassic Period, there were three-metre-long dragonflies. Where did these ginormous insects go? Could it be to do with the fact there was 50% more oxygen in the atmosphere then? Without this extra oxygen, these big insects couldn't respire efficiently enough to be successful. So they were superceded by smaller ones, and the smallest of their own bloodline became the most successful.
If creationism was true, there'd still be T-Rexes roaming the earth. And Sabre-tooth tigers, and perhaps the odd Carcharodon megalodon. How does creationism account for their extinction?

#350 Ironwolf

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 01:02 PM

That is the main point I like to point out to all my christian/insanity extended family. The Bible says that God made the earth and sun with different things... And man from the sand and the mud.
This does not account for the other planets, the asteroid belt, life on other planets, or any other planets and galaxies within the universe.
Also, same with the whole 'being created by a supreme entity' thing, the Book says man was made right after Earth was. But here, theres accual tangible proof saying that is incorrect. That is, fossils of dinosaurs and plants.

I really see no way how a Religious person could realistically believe in what they do.

#351 MSpencer

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 01:13 PM

Oh easy. Many of them say that the Earth really is 6,000 years old, and that the fossils are simply made up or "those inept scientists" can't measure their age right. ;)
I had to do a project on external viewpoints of evolution for a class. I got stuck with the Catholics, so I was stuck for an hour watching something on my computer where they used a book written 4,000 years ago to contradict modern, tangible proof. Twas fun, the paper was good.
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#352 Ironwolf

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 01:35 PM

Oh! And another thing I found amusing.
Faith Healing *link*

I also saw an Unexplained show where they had people fainting then their cancer went away. I was just looking like this: :\
Spontainous Remission, thank you.
I'd love to see those people try to cure someone of HIV/AIDS or some STD.

Also, whats that called when you get 'Healed by God'? When the chemical and neurological patterns change. The first being 'Fight or Flight', then the Peace mode. A firefighter was in a burning building 5 stories up, the floor was prety much gone and the fire was prety bad. He let go, landed, and only got away with a broken leg. The narrator goes on about how the brain (I forgot the word neuro-chemical, something like that) changes and you're in a completely different state of being.
Then the religious person comes along "Oh! God has saved him!" Yada yada

#353 Drewry

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 05:41 AM

"Oh! God has saved him!" Yada yada


If a belief in god gives someone the strength to get through something very difficult, then that is god saving them. Believing in god can save you, you just have to believe. There are two worlds that co-exist as we know it. The physical world, and the spiritual world. The spiritual world is more powerful over the physical, and it exists in your mind. Ever heard of mind over matter? It is the same principle.
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#354 MSpencer

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:17 AM

No, it's the human body saving them. You could be run over by a truck and survive. You can be shot in the forehead and survive. You can be thrown off a five story building and survive. You can be lit on fire by napalm and survive. You can be hit by an artillery shell and survive.
Don't mistake some utterance made at the time of action as some sort of saving grace, it's not. In fact, it's likely that without any sort of religion, the same thing would happen. Just because something's there and is exhibited doesn't mean it's the cause of acts of courage or abnormal strength. It's actually something called the endocrinal system, I recommend you look into it.
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#355 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:30 PM

Longtime no post.

But anyways, here's what I want to do I want every one to say one word that describes what life is and are means. I will start off

Life is friends


If someone has already said the word please do not repeat it.
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#356 Ash

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:47 PM

Life is not posting stuff completely irrelevant to the thread. :D

#357 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:56 PM

Life is not posting stuff completely irrelevant to the thread. :D

No, trust me there is there is a point to this, that is relevant to the thread.
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#358 Mathijs

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 05:02 PM

I guess we just haven't found it yet.

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#359 Tom

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 11:19 PM

Explain the concept "life is friends" please. Rather than just state it, even i got no clue wtf you are talking about, and i'm usually the one ranting bollacks that people don't get.

#360 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:18 AM

getting into anomynous area here. it could be a reference to our social side as flock animals. we usually don't last long without social connections. naturally since we are on a forum we are most likely a group where there is a majority of anti-social people(if not i would be able to average it quite above the average alone :D ), people might not see the connection because we're not used to thinking of it that way.

so basically he could be saying life is friends because we're not really able to truly live without social connections. dunno if its relevant to the topic at hand though...

Edited by duke_Qa, 07 September 2006 - 12:20 AM.

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