1144 replies to this topic

[Celeglin]

- for Rohan upgrade called "Garrison". Cost 1200-1500. Adds 3 battalions of Yeoman archers on the walls. Unclikable, costing 0 CP. They wouldn't be able to level up but equipped with heavy armour.

Amost possible, but I can't define where in a given radius a slaved unit can walk (ala, only on walls).

- for Eriador Elves:
1. The Walls of the Grey Heaven. Cost 2500. Gives walls like Gondor base has, maybe with woodbine and flowers on? And as a citadel I suggest a high, Mithlond-style tower. It would be awasome

Eriador castle will already have walkable walls like Gondor/Rohan; the architecture will be a mix of Rivendell and Mithlond.

2. Guards of the Heaven. Cost 1500-2000. Gives 3-4 Sperman of the Heaven battalions. Like Cirdan in BETA.

A possibility. Of course, they will have to cost less than 3-4 movable batts... or have some special bonus.

3. The Sea Breeze. Cost 750. Units in the citadel are resistant to fear.

Fear will already be pretty much nonexsistant for Eriador elves because of all the hero/minstrel anti-fear leadership.

- for Rhovanion Elves:
1. Observers. Cost 1000-1500. Gives fortress a huge sight bonus. Doesn't detect hidden units.

Possible. I'll have to see though, because the Flets already have rather large vision radius...

2. The Enshrining Mist. Cost 1500-2000. Hides units and gives them a small attack and huge armour bonus.

Nah, the Nenya one will be enough.

For both Isengard and Mordor:
- Tainted Land. Cost 2000. Just like spell, but with bigger radious. +25% damage and armour bonus. Small speed decrease for enemy forces.

I'd rather not, but we'll see how balancing goes.

I was thinking about special upgrade for Eriador cavalry. Maybe something called "Horse Training" - quite cheap, gives a 15% speed bonus. Or a special ability for Lancers called "Charge" - +10% speed, +25% trample damage and +50% trample ability, available on level 3.

Both of these would make the already incredibly fast units absolutely insane... We'll see about hero abilities instead though...

And is it possible to give Ghaladrim a "toggle-armour" ability? Without their armour they would be much faster, but take more damage. With their armour on, just like they are now ( they should have Helm's Deep skin). Of course, this ability should be unabled by heavy armour upgrade.

Actually the Galadhrim Warriors and the Marchwardens (which is kinda what the current Lorien unit is an amalgamation of) will be separate units. I'm still thinking of how I'm going to make them really different from eachother and from the Mirkwood Scouts (I have ideas for defense, speed, and stealth). We'll see what happens.

And I think that cavalry battalions with heavy armour should deal a bit more trample damage.

Might be possible... This would require reworking all cavalry units though... We'll see how easy it is. I'm not overly excited about this feature.

BTW, are Forlindon Bows mounted?

Yes.

[Elvenlord]

Maybe make the warriors always have armor on, then heavy gives them the armor on the......lower armor
Then one of the other 2 can be fast, weak attacks, then the other slow, strong attacks?

[Celeglin]

Maybe make the warriors always have armor on, then heavy gives them the armor on the......lower armor

That's the basis of what I'll be doing art wise.

Then one of the other 2 can be fast, weak attacks, then the other slow, strong attacks?

I don't really want the Galadhrim Warriors to be "slow" at all (they covered insane distances in a very short time in the film).

[Olorin]

Then again, that was in the film, and as we all know there were no Elves (apart from Legolas of course) at Helm's Deep. On another note, for the lvl 3 Rhovanion power that summons allies from the west, maybe you could make it so it brings Riders of Rivendell to the field, because a) it gives them a cavalry summon, which we all know is extremely useful, and b) Rhovanion will have access to another type of cavalry in contrast to Amroth's Knights. By the way, are you going to fiddle around with the Knights stats?

Edited by Olorin, 07 December 2006 - 05:48 AM.

[Lauri]

I would never thought of the elves as slow.... no matter if their in the book or not, I love elves!

[Celeglin]

Then again, that was in the film, and as we all know there were no Elves (apart from Legolas of course) at Helm's Deep.

Your point? Clearly I'm taking ideas from both mediums (take a look at Arwen). Furthermore, let's toss up your example of Legolas: he was the only one of the Three Hunters who could have run that entire distance with no rest until the end. Pretty sure the other Elves could achieve something similar.

On another note, for the lvl 3 Rhovanion power that summons allies from the west, maybe you could make it so it brings Riders of Rivendell to the field, because a) it gives them a cavalry summon, which we all know is extremely useful, and b) Rhovanion will have access to another type of cavalry in contrast to Amroth's Knights.

I'm not sure yet if I'm going to have multiple types of units summoned, or just one type. My thoughts right now for Rhovanion's spell is to have it summon both the Riders and the Forlindon Bows - that way you get representation from both Rivendell and Lindon.

By the way, are you going to fiddle around with the Knights stats?

I've done further differentiation between the Riders and the Knights already and it will be included in the next release. The Rider's trample damage has been further decreased. Knight armour has been given a slight boost and had their speed reduced; however, I've made it so they don't slow down as much while trampling, and can do trample damage at slower speeds than other cavalry. This should really establish the Riders as harrassers and the Knights as chargers.

[swan]

All elven units should be faster than man and orcs, even those heavy armoured. Elves were just stronger. And slow Galadhrim Worrior would be useless unit, especially while fighting together with other units.

And are you going to reduce the cost of Riders? They're a bit too expensive IMO.

[Celeglin]

I've never found them expensive because of the huge number of Orchards I always have/need to have. I don't think I've ever actually payed more than 650 for a batt of Riders (even though their normal cost is 800). Furthermore, I don't think they are worth any less than the Gondor Knights.

[zimoo]

I didn't even know that orchards reduced the cost of them, and by the time you're in a position to buy them you should have lots of orchards. I think I normally pay about 600 for them, which is good value considering their strength.

[Elvenlord]

I meant slow attack speed, not movement
I don't think I've paid more than 600 as well

Edited by Elvenlord, 07 December 2006 - 02:13 PM.

[Olorin]

I'm not sure yet if I'm going to have multiple types of units summoned, or just one type. My thoughts right now for Rhovanion's spell is to have it summon both the Riders and the Forlindon Bows - that way you get representation from both Rivendell and Lindon.

Fair enough. Just one Tolkien related question: in the destruction of Dol Guldur did an army of Lindon come to aid Mirkwood, Lothlorien and Rivendell? If not, it would make more sense to summon just the Riders. But either way, I like the sound of the spell so far.

I've done further differentiation between the Riders and the Knights already and it will be included in the next release. The Rider's trample damage has been further decreased. Knight armour has been given a slight boost and had their speed reduced; however, I've made it so they don't slow down as much while trampling, and can do trample damage at slower speeds than other cavalry. This should really establish the Riders as harrassers and the Knights as chargers.

I meant for TEA II, but glad to hear that they'll be balanced.

Edited by Olorin, 08 December 2006 - 05:53 AM.

[Celeglin]

Just one Tolkien related question: in the destruction of Dol Guldur did an army of Lindon come to aid Mirkwood, Lothlorien and Rivendell? If not, it would make more sense to summon just the Riders. But either way, I like the sound of the spell so far.

Rivendell wasn't present at the destruction of Dol Guldur either . They may have been part of the attack on the Necromancer 60 years earlier, but nobody really knows what the heck happened there.

[swan]

So maybe give up the idea of Elves summons? There were a few Elves in Third Age of Middle-Earth, and I think that they couldn't await help from other Elves - they were concentrating on defending themselves. I think that Dunedain summon for Eriador is god idea, but those two factions were separates by high mountains and Isengard, so military aid was rather impossible. I guess that even dwarves would come and help to save Rhovanion than Eriador Elves. I don't like dwarves, but it's more suitable summon IMO.

And I have some more ideas:

Rohan
1. Upgrade called Training. Cost 1500-2000. Available: Barracks, level 2. Decreases the time of creating Rohan infantry by 15%.
2. King's Horses. Uprade cost 1200. Aailable: Stables, level 2 or 3. Battalion equipping cost - 400. Small speed boost +5% or 10%, more trample damage +20% and trampling possibility- +25%.
3. I think that "Recruitment" power should be a very cheap, early-game upgrade, like 25 resources cost and Rohan should get a new power, maybe called "Helm's Horn"( +75% damage). I just don't think that Rohan peasants got swords and shields in a magic way.
4. New building - Rohan shelter. A level-3 Rohan Archery Range, garrisonable (2 battalions of archers). Able to train peasants. Upgrated by "Barricade" upgrade (cost 600, armour bonus for this building). Decreases the cost of Rohan infantry. Cost of the building - 750.

Gondor
1. Fortress upgrade called "Wall Banners". Cost 1000. Small, maybe +20-25% attack bonus nearby fortress.
2. "Constrution strengthening" - Workshop, level 2. Cost 800. Gives Trebushes(don't know how to spell it ) an armour bonus. Equipping cost - 400.

And is it possible to reduce the pierce armour of Rangers? The are too resistant to arrows IMO.
And what do you think about adding a new ability for Sam - called "Elven bread", heals him and Frodo and gives them a 10% speed bonus. Maybe give such ability for Ghaladrim Worriors and all Lorien units? Of course, much weaker, only healing, and available on level-3 or 4?

I meant slow attack speed

Well, I've always thought that Elves attacks were swift and violent. And Ghaladrim attacks rather slow now.

Edit: And what do you think about a huge Mithlond tower as a fortress for Eriador?

Edited by swan, 08 December 2006 - 04:55 PM.

[zimoo]

1. Upgrade called Training. Cost 1500-2000. Available: Barracks, level 2. Decreases the time of creating Rohan infantry by 15%.

If by 1500-2000 you mean 150-200 then it might actually be something I'd use. A 15% build increase is a lot less useful than you think, I'd much rather get a hero for that amount.

[Celeglin]

So maybe give up the idea of Elves summons? There were a few Elves in Third Age of Middle-Earth, and I think that they couldn't await help from other Elves - they were concentrating on defending themselves. I think that Dunedain summon for Eriador is god idea, but those two factions were separates by high mountains and Isengard, so military aid was rather impossible. I guess that even dwarves would come and help to save Rhovanion than Eriador Elves. I don't like dwarves, but it's more suitable summon IMO.

Umm... *points at the current version of the mod*... *then points at the mod title*. I'm clearly not going so much by logistics here, and I don't plan to start. The Elven Alliance powers are staying, period.

1. Upgrade called Training. Cost 1500-2000. Available: Barracks, level 2. Decreases the time of creating Rohan infantry by 15%.

Far too expensive for the effect. I'm not a big fan of the idea anyway.

2. King's Horses. Uprade cost 1200. Aailable: Stables, level 2 or 3. Battalion equipping cost - 400. Small speed boost +5% or 10%, more trample damage +20% and trampling possibility- +25%.

Don't want to give speed boosts as an upgrade to anyone. Giving them a second weapon upgrade (King's Horses for trample and Forged Blades for weapon) could be finicky, but possible. It's impossible to change anything about a unit's trample stats except for slowdown via upgrade. The problem is mixing all these factors together under one upgrade... I'm not totally against this upgrade, but I want to keep difficult coding to the two Elven factions: I don't want to be stuck coding things that I don't really care about (stabs Gothmog and Ugluk).

3. I think that "Recruitment" power should be a very cheap, early-game upgrade, like 25 resources cost and Rohan should get a new power, maybe called "Helm's Horn"( +75% damage). I just don't think that Rohan peasants got swords and shields in a magic way.

That's not "magic". It's simply an effect to show the change... It's what video games do. If I wanted to be realistic in the upgrade sense, I'd make porters (NO I'm not going to do that).

4. New building - Rohan shelter. A level-3 Rohan Archery Range, garrisonable (2 battalions of archers). Able to train peasants. Upgrated by "Barricade" upgrade (cost 600, armour bonus for this building). Decreases the cost of Rohan infantry. Cost of the building - 750.

I think I like this one... We'll see.

1. Fortress upgrade called "Wall Banners". Cost 1000. Small, maybe +20-25% attack bonus nearby fortress.

Don't want to have to do the modelling work.

2. "Constrution strengthening" - Workshop, level 2. Cost 800. Gives Trebushes(don't know how to spell it ) an armour bonus. Equipping cost - 400.

Possible. Doesn't excite me though (*pokes at rebalancing siege as a result*)

And is it possible to reduce the pierce armour of Rangers? The are too resistant to arrows IMO.

Agreed. I'll work on this.

And what do you think about adding a new ability for Sam - called "Elven bread", heals him and Frodo and gives them a 10% speed bonus.

Bar the speed bonus, I'm alright with this. We'll see though.

Maybe give such ability for Ghaladrim Worriors and all Lorien units? Of course, much weaker, only healing, and available on level-3 or 4?

No no no. Waaay too much healing for Rhovanion already (Galadriel's huge heal spell and her Handmaidens).

I meant slow attack speed

Well, I've always thought that Elves attacks were swift and violent. And Ghaladrim attacks rather slow now.

Off the top of my head, the only units (so that's excluding heroes) that have a faster attack rate than the Galadhrim are the Mirkwood Scouts and the Avari Blademasters (Avari Archers may have the same attack rate as the Galadhrim).

Edit: And what do you think about a huge Mithlond tower as a fortress for Eriador?

Shhhhh... . I didn't ask for design help: that's the thing I'm mildly good at.

[swan]

Shhhhh... . I didn't ask for design help: that's the thing I'm mildly good at.

Well, I have to agree But it was only a suggestion.

I don't know do you need more ideas, but I have one more This time it's a unit.

Name: Mithlond Sentry
Cost: 900-1000 resources, 25 CP
Available: high level building
Description: Heavy armoured, armed with long, two-hand scythes (but scythes with blades parallel to handle). Deals huge damage with AoE effect. Strong against swordsman and spearman, able to trample, but good against cavalry in close fight. Weak against archers, a bit faster than Spearman of the Heaven.

I know it might look laughable, but scythe was a dangerous weapon. In Europe peasants while uprisings were armed with such things and it was very usefull weapon. This unit would be something a bit different than others. And scythes, with ornaments and suitable blades would look elvish.

Sorry If I'm obtrusive, Celeglin.

[Celeglin]

[Name: Mithlond Sentry
Cost: 900-1000 resources, 25 CP
Available: high level building
Description: Heavy armoured, armed with long, two-hand scythes (but scythes with blades parallel to handle). Deals huge damage with AoE effect. Strong against swordsman and spearman, able to trample, but good against cavalry in close fight. Weak against archers, a bit faster than Spearman of the Heaven.

I know it might look laughable, but scythe was a dangerous weapon. In Europe peasants while uprisings were armed with such things and it was very usefull weapon. This unit would be something a bit different than others. And scythes, with ornaments and suitable blades would look elvish.

Ohhh... That's an idea... But I don't think I want it for Elves... Oh my hmm... You've got me thinking.

[Olorin]

The Wall Banners Upgrade actually sounds pretty useful. You would only have to make one skin for it, as the normal Gondor castle/camp comes with banners anyway. All you would have to do would be remove the banners. Should give a defensive bonus to all allies within and in sight of the fortress. Now we're starting to think up of a whole new concept for this game. I've come up with some of my own.

Gondor-Banners of Gondor: defensive bonus to nearby allies

Rhovanion-Girdle of Nenya: negative leadership to all nearby enemies

Eriador-Sea Breeze: hope you don't mind me taking the name swan; slowly heals allies near fortress

Rohan-Grace of the Mearas: decreases time of Rohan unit creation by 30% (almost like swans idea, just made a bit more suitable)

Isengard-Crebain: increases fortress vision, provides small leadership bonus

Mordor-The Red Eye: gives an attack bonus to all allies near the fortress

[swan]

I like those ideas Olorin

Eriador-Sea Breeze: hope you don't mind me taking the name swan; slowly heals allies near fortress

No, of course not

I've just noticed that Scouts and Rangers, both armourless units, are rather resistant to trample. Is it possible to make them more vulnerable?

And do you have any ideas for Gildor?

[zimoo]

I don't see how having armour would make you more resistant to trample. At the end of the day, you've got a giant horse charging right into you, and armoured guys won't be able to move out of the way, whereas unarmoured guys will