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#41 Err0r

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 08:12 PM

if u play vs hard u never have the chance to tech up :rolleyes:

and now in contra, after i beat a skirmish, i havent even gotten a single promotion

i like the promotiion thing but i think its too hard to get a promo

Edited by Err0r, 01 April 2005 - 08:15 PM.


#42 Creator

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 08:39 PM

Ok, I will do something.

#43 Pendaelose

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 01:11 PM

The promotions twice as fast is very nice. It makes .03 alot of fun for a little while, but it still leaves some big problems in the game play.

the biggest problem is when playing against the AI. If you build reasonable base defenses the computer can't break it. they send tons of starter units (all they have) and all die. You get promoted and now you out tech them by a long shot. Just build super units and wipe them out. I can take on seven Hards on one team now, it takes me forever, but all I have to do is keep building patriots until I hit lvl5 then I build a load of carpet bombers and take out every base one at a time.

The promotion system makes a bit more sense when playing against humans, but even then you get problems. It encourages bunkering in the early game, and if someone is winning by just a little bit when they tech up first suddenly they are winning by a land slide. Its kind of like "HaHa, you were having a tough time breaking my bunkered base, now I can build super defenses until I hit lvl5 then I'll just nuke you a few times"

I think the goal was to encourage players to use more than just super units and giant tanks for everything. but it still works out about the same, eihter bunker till you have super unts or bum rush em and hope they don't have base defenses yet. If he does have defenses up then you just lost everything and pushed him that much close to level3. and if he gets there first thers no way you can win. So why attack? I have a better chance just teasing him with my crappy artilary hoping I can get a promotion. If he comes out to fight i run back to my base and hope he's dumb enough to promote me by attacking.

One idea is to change all the build times. If you reduce the buld time on battle masters and increase the build time on overlords theres suddenly a good reason to build lots of battlemasters and a few overlords for the towers. If you don't change the prices much it becomes a good reason to build both. Battlemasters because they are the best use of time, and overlords because they are the best use of the money. The same idea works with any army, and it would De-Gimpify the AI.

I'm not knock'n the idea behind using the Gen lvls to get tech, but I just don' think it worked out right. It rewards over-defense and still leads to super attacks. Not to mention if the AI can't build anything that can break the simple defenses it kinda kills hte fun of skermish. Once you know you can beat seven hards every time why bother playing Co-op with a friend.

Man, you've made a killer mod, and I love that you had the balls to try something new and creative, I just don't think it worked out the way we had all hoped it would. Still, thats just my opinion.
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#44 Vigrid

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 11:50 PM

the biggest problem is when playing against the AI.  If you build reasonable base defenses the computer can't break it.  they send tons of starter units (all they have) and all die.  You get promoted and now you out tech them by a long shot.  Just build super units and wipe them out.  I can take on seven Hards on one team now, it takes me forever, but all I have to do is keep building patriots until I hit lvl5  then I build a load of carpet bombers and take out every base one at a time. 



I get carpet bombed, satilite beamed, hits by scuds and nukes all the time (that SDI cannons great :p ], I've seen my allies use overlord tanks and other rank 3/5 units and buildings as well. Not sure why you not getting that (I don't even get hit by generals powers in the main game, so you can imagine my surprise when a huge red beam choped up my two arefields killing off 16 aroras, course his CC got hit by about 6 of my carpet bombers right after but still). And before patch I was getting level 5 rank easily as well, not sure whats up with my game.

Edited by Vigrid, 04 April 2005 - 11:50 PM.


#45 Pendaelose

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 11:58 PM

They never level up for me because I don't ever let them kill anything. I played against 7 hards and not one ever made it to level 3.

Now today I did do seomthing a little different, I took away the teams and they leveled off of each other, but fighting just me they never level at all. Comp allies would help them level alot, but I don't typicaly use any at all.
But I agree with once they level they do extreamly well. just for the first 20 rounds I played they didn't level at all.
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#46 Gilgamesh

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 03:59 PM

In the topic about removed stuff i posted something about the GLA versus EMP Snipers.

EMP Snipers are very cool, but a bit overpowered when the enemy is the GLA, because the most efficient way to kill this snipers is using planes, and as we know, not all GLA has planes.

The stealth general has his scuds and snipers, so no problem to him...
Demo has his demo-planes...
Toxic = ?
Assault = ?

So something should be done to help this. Or i'm blind and there is a way to counter this. :p

#47 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 09:27 AM

gla shouldnt have planes, it ruins their "cheap" low-tech style.. there are other ways to kill snipers, use your imagination

#48 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 09:28 AM

btw, u dont have to post in every topic telling creator to add more planes to GLA... I think he knows what you want.. :p

#49 Guest_matador_*

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 01:25 PM

The stealth general has his scuds and snipers, so no problem to him...
Demo has his demo-planes...
Toxic = ?
Assault = ?

So something should be done to help this. Or i'm blind and there is a way to counter this. tongue.gif


assault got long range attilery
toxing got that building forgot the name :p
so whats your problem ;)

#50 Gilgamesh

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 01:34 PM

The stealth general has his scuds and snipers, so no problem to him...
Demo has his demo-planes...
Toxic = ?
Assault = ?

So something should be done to help this. Or i'm blind and there is a way to counter this. tongue.gif


assault got long range attilery
toxing got that building forgot the name :p
so whats your problem ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ok, but snipers also do have long range emp shooting. Hmmm but not so long as the artillary...
The toxic option is a good one, i forgot about it, as i use it most to destroy their entire base using acids, very cool, one of the best things on Contra Mod!

So we have option B, i.e., i need glasses... :D thanks ;)

Edit: and about that guest posts, i do not like gla having planes! I only think that the demo-planes are very good to use, specially with all upgrades, but other gla generals should not have any planes, it doesn't fit with the gla style. ;)

Edited by Gilgamesh, 06 April 2005 - 02:25 PM.


#51 Guest_AKBOB_*

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 12:45 AM

I like (and understand) the effort to make the low tech level units more powerful. The idea of making the general points required to get to a higher tech level was a very good idea. However, there are a few things in Generals itself that make it impossible for the low level units to ever be useful. The first thing is that there is only one level of defense in the game. I hold up for example the USA. At the start of the game, defenses will probably consist of patriots and firebases loaded with rangers for anti-infantry. At the end of the game, the setup will be exactly the same, except more numerous and the rangers will have been replaced by pathfinders. Why bother giving your opponent free ranks with a low level assault into the gaping maws of doom that a half-decent defensive setup provides? Why not, instead, let them do that while you prepare to destroy their entire base with a massive amount of Paladins after your airforce and particle cannons have ripped the hide off of their defenses, leaving the weak, goey inside of their base ready to be devoured by your armour? What I am saying is that the cause of turtling lies not in your mod, but in generals itself. I would recommend adding multiple levels of defensive structures, like in Total Annihilation. For those who don't know, there were three levels of defense that were all about balanced with their corresponding unit levels. The biggest problem this presents would be making a bunch more defenses for each side. If this is at all feasable, please consider it. If not, my crazy evil spirit, which looks like this :) , will haunt you forever.

#52 Pendaelose

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:19 PM

I would recommend adding multiple levels of defensive structures, like in Total Annihilation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Thats not a bad idea. I think creator tried a little bit to do that with some of the new defenses like the designator or the tomahawk fire base. I ould keep in mind though that Total Anihilation was a VERY differnt style of RTS... I'd even call it unique.

I think your right that the game Does encourage bunkering by its design... most RTS do. But I think the mod more than encourages it it rewards it in the extream. I've had 2 ideas of how to make the game more balanced to favor some of the starter units like the battle master.

First Thaught:
I've thaught maybe keep the lvl system but make a wider variety of units at each lvl. For each lvl of promotion you need a full range of combat units to include Tanks, Artilary, and air, as well as weapons to counter all of these. To fight efectivly and attack bases you really need every component of your army. Like Total Anihilation they had 3 levels of ase defense, but there was also 3 levels of every form of attack. To compleatly restrict an army from Artilary and Air means that army won't be able to fight a strong close range opponent, such as a base defense.

Second Thaught:
If the goal is to make Simple units more USED... make them more usefull. I think Lower the build time of all under used low tech units and raise the build time of all over used high tech units. Both have a place. Low tech units make great rush and base defense units because they are easy to replace and highly expendable. If you can have 5 or 6 battle masters for every overlord they might just get used. Overlords would still have a place. If you've got time and money... build em. but don't be supprised if your enemy out numbers you 10 to 1 because you went pure high tech without low end units.

Personaly I think the second idea would work best. No body complains if you give them anything new. Contra .03 could have had 100 new units, but if you restrict a player from just 1 unit that they are used to having they will complain.

keep in mind also, Contra is popular because it added to the gameplay of Zero Hour... if you change that gameplay too much you alienate the fans that wanted to play ZH.
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#53 Guest_matador_*

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:47 PM

why not making defence like overlord
that you start with a base with nothing and then you can build 1 addon on it

example:
lvl 1. 50 cal. without protection

lvl 3. group of 50. cal with protection
group of stinger dudes


lvl 5. patriot/sam installation

when you did 1 upgrade you cant upgrade it anymore
so people will use the lvl 1 even at the end of the game ;)

#54 Guest_Chaosknight128_*

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 01:21 AM

Excellent mod btw, a few suggestions, generals has always been a game that strives for some sort of realism, yes we can all find example where this isnt true, but for the most part it plays a central role. I think you should remove the winged missile unit, the scourge unit and the winged transport, none of these units look like they belong in generals at all. The first time i used them i laughed, but now they just look stupid to me, no offense, just my 2 cents, btw everything else looks perfect, maybe keep the winged missile, just take the suicide bomber off of it and maybe give a smaller plane to use as a suicide plane.

#55 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 05:11 PM

hi creator,

I'm one of your biggest funs !!!
i would like to make you some suggestions for the next version of contra...... first i would like from you to make new superunits for all generals !!! perhaps a tank that fires a twin volley of nuclear missiles (i thought like a twin missile luna !!!) for the tank general a tank that has one barrel but is tank destroyer that kills vehicles in one shot...... for the poison one tank that has two turrets, with the first it fires biochemical spray (like the toxin tructor) and the second is a sniper anti tank cannon or a twin rocket sturm-s turret...... you can also add new generals... like an hydrogen general for the china, having hydrogen nuclear missiles (something like the nuke general but some kind.... stronger)....

thanks a lot for your mods
Best regards Leo

#56 sturm

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 05:53 PM

One of the earlier suggestions mentioned changing the air generals superweapon, i remember a superweapon from another mod that could call in 5 carpet bombers at once every 5 or 6 minutes :p i think it was from ZH reborn or something

the only thing that bothered me about the this superweapon is that it sayed it called in carpet bombers, fuel air bombs/MOABs and saturation bombers but it only called in carpet bombers

the saturation bomber is just a modified carpet bomber it drops the bombs then after they hit the ground they split into about 12 mini bombs(similar to cluster tomahawks), one of these was enough to destroy a SCUD storm completely

Edited by sturm, 30 April 2005 - 03:30 PM.


#57 Pendaelose

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 06:34 PM

One of the earlier suggestions mentioned changing the air generals superweapon, i remember a superweapon from another mod that could call in 5 carpet bombers at once every 5 or 6 minutes :p  i think it was from ZH reborn or something

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


hehehehe that would be pretty super ;)

to make it on-par with other superweapons the bombers might have to be invincible or have uber health. Other Generals SW can't be shot down. (SDI not count in that statement)
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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.


#58 alpha86

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 04:41 PM

That carpet bomb idea is pretty good and dam cool i think. But where would it be launched from? Also I think that the Airforce base defences should be more like the designator rather than patriots.

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#59 WARthog

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 04:48 PM

Well the bomber superweapon might be called by a special radiotower. The air force patriots should be anti-air patriots.

#60 Pendaelose

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 05:37 PM

Well the bomber superweapon might be called by a special radiotower. The air force patriots should be anti-air patriots.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



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Between now and the next polished release there should be very little new art work done. Instead the focus is on designing, testing, and fixing. the mod has always been so close to finished that its nearly criminal. I'd love to see this through to the end with a real community effort.





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