1143 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

There are a number of different options for the ring. I see the mod heading in three directions with this:

1) Unique ring heroes for each faction that are buildable once you have the ring.
2) Similar to what was mentioned about the elvenstar mod - once the ring is captured abilities are unlocked on one existing hero.
3) Make the ring and gollum only killable by a hero, and the ring can only be picked up by a hero. Whoever has the ring attributes then change into a ring-hero (so basically # possible "ring-heroes" = # heroes). It would be interesting to come up with the variety of possibilities. The modeling and coding would be insane, but it would be interesting. Mordor alone would have the capability of summoning sauron by returning the ring to revive him. This is the most appealing to me, but insane workload as I'd like to have a number of different abilities/changes.)

Ah well I just thought that would be interesting and a little fun. Unless I can find a talented coded to help, it would probably be some time before I get to the ring-heroes.

Robert J.

[Elendil the High]

i will say unique ringheroes for each faction an d i have some sugestions

Gondor: Isildur
Abilities:
Might of Numenor (basicly an earthquake)
Leader of men (nearby units becomes ivulneable and gains 300% damage for 45 sek)
King of the Dunedain (summons 6 batalions of dunedain soldiers for 40 sek)

Rohan: Theoden (upgrade)
Abilities:
Riders of the ridermark (nearby cavalry gains 25% speed, 75% armor, 200% damage and 200% Exp, passive)
Aid to gondor(summons 8 batalions of Rohirim for 60 sek)
Red dawn (nearby cavalry becomes invulneable and gains 0% crush deceleration
Mount

Elves: Gil-Galad
Abilities:
Power of aiglos (instandly kills an enemy hero)
Power of Vilya (Kills nearby units)
The last alliance (summons 5 batalions of LA elves)

Dwarves: Durin
Abilities:
Mines of old (nearby mines produce 250% resurces)Passive
King of Dwarves (Nearby allies gains 200% damage, 75% armor and 200% exp)
King of Moria (Summons 5 batalions of Moria Dwarves)

This is my ideas for now

[Ergopad]

I feel more for the following:

Mordor: Sauron
Isengard: Saruman of Many Colours
Goblins: The Balrog
Evil Men: One of the blue wizards (?)
Gondor: Gandalf the White
Rohan: Radagast the Brown
Elves: Galadriel
Dwarves: Beorn or Grimbeorn

Even better than my suggestions, perfect choices for ring heroes! Balrog fits perfectly to goblins. Not sure about Radagast, since he was unallied, though Rohan and Radagast both are kind of unallied and close to nature. Beorn is great for Dwarves too.

How about Denethor as Gondor ring hero? I'd like to see him finally get the ring! And Gandalf refused to take the ring...

Elendil the High's suggestions aren't bad, but I don't like the idea bringing DEAD heroes as ring heroes.

About your options RJ:

1) "Easiest" way doing it and not bad at all.
2) More scripting, but feels like best choice for me. (Just "steal" from Elvenstar Mod )
3) I think, it's too much work. I personally like one fully tweaked HERO.

Edited by Ergopad, 03 July 2007 - 02:07 PM.

[Dalf32]

of the 3 options, i lik 2 and 3 the best. 3 wuld b insane and tons of fun, and wuld add so many more possibilities and choices. 2 wuld add problems bc if u add multiple powers 2 the hero, sum heros dont hav space left so u wuld hav problems. unless u did sumthin lik the expanded hero menu and use 1 slot 2 switch 2 another set of powers, that'd b sweet.

gondor cant get gandalf bc he refused the ring as Ergopad said, but i dont lik denethor as a choice either. he wasnt even king, and in the movie he was off his rocker. id prefer aragorn 4 gondor.
i lik theoden better 4 rohan than radagast just bc radagast wasnt really allied 2 any1.
and 4 the easterlings i wuld suggest sum sort of easterling/haradrim captain rather than a wizard simply bc it makes more sense; only prob with that is easterling/haradrim leaders r almost never even mentioned anywer, so names and backstories and such r hard 2 com by.
i also dont wanna 'resurrect' anybody other than sauron bc it makes no sense.
altho, how does a balrog wear a tiny little ring? got sum logistical problems ther.
other than that i lik allathar's list.

i was thinkin bout makin the hobbit heros better (frodo, sam, merry, and pippin), i mean they really really blow rite now. perhaps make them as they r in the BFME1 version of the Elvenstar mod, altho not as strong. a lvl 10 sam in that mod can kill sauron by himself =O

and perhaps u culd add a bloodmod 4 a little realism, i dunno mayb im just sick, but i lik a little blood in my wars.

[Devon]

see was considering something like this, but how bout the fellowship for good? Frodo can have a power that can be used to destroy enemy fortresses when within a really small radius, and when used, it sends to ring back to unowned.

[Ergopad]

of the 3 options, i lik 2 and 3 the best. 3 wuld b insane and tons of fun, and wuld add so many more possibilities and choices. 2 wuld add problems bc if u add multiple powers 2 the hero, sum heros dont hav space left so u wuld hav problems. unless u did sumthin lik the expanded hero menu and use 1 slot 2 switch 2 another set of powers, that'd b sweet.

gondor cant get gandalf bc he refused the ring as Ergopad said, but i dont lik denethor as a choice either. he wasnt even king, and in the movie he was off his rocker. id prefer aragorn 4 gondor.
i lik theoden better 4 rohan than radagast just bc radagast wasnt really allied 2 any1.
and 4 the easterlings i wuld suggest sum sort of easterling/haradrim captain rather than a wizard simply bc it makes more sense; only prob with that is easterling/haradrim leaders r almost never even mentioned anywer, so names and backstories and such r hard 2 com by.
i also dont wanna 'resurrect' anybody other than sauron bc it makes no sense.
altho, how does a balrog wear a tiny little ring? got sum logistical problems ther.
other than that i lik allathar's list.

i was thinkin bout makin the hobbit heros better (frodo, sam, merry, and pippin), i mean they really really blow rite now. perhaps make them as they r in the BFME1 version of the Elvenstar mod, altho not as strong. a lvl 10 sam in that mod can kill sauron by himself =O

and perhaps u culd add a bloodmod 4 a little realism, i dunno mayb im just sick, but i lik a little blood in my wars.

Wow, that's one hard text to read (2=to, 4=for...).

Well, first off, Aragorn also refused to take the ring, when Frodo offered it to him also. I think they did it pretty well in Elvenstar Mod, have u tried it out? I guess Gandalf would be good compromise. Speaking of Gandalf, is he invulnerable to fire? Since he is wearing Narya (The Ring of Fire). Just understood that he survived Saruman's Fireball (in the movie) since he was wearing it!

And if you like it realistic, then Radagast wouldn't join Rohan at all, but since he is in, I'd like to him have the ring.

I was also thinking about Evil Men's ring hero as captain of haradrim/easterling, but as you mentioned, there is none mentioned in the books so I guess it has to be one of the blue wizards. Or both of them, depending on which one you are playing at (as I've understood).

And about Balrog, in the movies the ring resized to fit Isildur's finger after the destruction of Sauron and even the Watcher tried to steal it from Frodo. Balrog just felts suiting best for Goblin's ring hero.

Totally agree with the hobbits, they definately need some uptune, but still I'd like them to have unique abilites, like Frying Pan to Sam and Mithril shirt to Frodo. I actually mentioned here somewhere. Another feature about hobbits that I've been missing for sometime, the ability to ride with someone else or with a ent (Elvenstar Mod 1?). I'd also like to have the other bfme1 heroes to have new abilities (Boromir, Legolas and Gimli atleast), since they don't have any high level abilities like in the Elvenstar Mod 1, as you mentioned.

I like it bloody too! Even the movies were more bloody...

Edited by Ergopad, 04 July 2007 - 01:08 AM.

[Dalf32]

sry bout that, my style is vry short and phonetic lol.
well if we're gonna get into it, gandalf technically isnt allowed to directly fight sauron, none of the istari wer permitted 2 directly fight him, so that shuld technically b changed.
i hav not tried the elvenstar mod 4 bfme2, but luv the bfme1 version (apart frum all the random German voicovers).
i cant remember which mod it was 4 bfme1, (not elvenstar) that gav sam a frying pan, that was awesome. but the 'for frodo' power in the elvenstar mod is awesome and makes good sense. so does frodo's passiv power that slows down his movement and health recharge. and the mithril coat makes tons of sense 2. they shuld also b able 2 'garrison' treebeard and all horse-mounted heros.
i mustv missed that part of the movie, the resizing part.
the last stand power 4 boromir (has showed up in multiple mods) wer he keeps fighting wen he runs out of health. that is perfect 4 boromir and i cant believe ea didnt put it in.
i never really noticed it, but i guess the watvher was goin straight after frodo. hmmm.
another problem is u hav 2 make all of the ring heros equal in strength, or close to, sauron. otherwise ther wuld b 1 less reason 2 use the factions with the especially weak ring heros (denethor, 4 exapmle wuldnt b vry good compared 2 sauron). so either giv them lots of powers, and sauron fewer powers, or just beef ther stats wen they hav the ring.

[Ergopad]

sry bout that, my style is vry short and phonetic lol.
well if we're gonna get into it, gandalf technically isnt allowed to directly fight sauron, none of the istari wer permitted 2 directly fight him, so that shuld technically b changed.
i hav not tried the elvenstar mod 4 bfme2, but luv the bfme1 version (apart frum all the random German voicovers).
i cant remember which mod it was 4 bfme1, (not elvenstar) that gav sam a frying pan, that was awesome. but the 'for frodo' power in the elvenstar mod is awesome and makes good sense. so does frodo's passiv power that slows down his movement and health recharge. and the mithril coat makes tons of sense 2. they shuld also b able 2 'garrison' treebeard and all horse-mounted heros.
i mustv missed that part of the movie, the resizing part.
the last stand power 4 boromir (has showed up in multiple mods) wer he keeps fighting wen he runs out of health. that is perfect 4 boromir and i cant believe ea didnt put it in.
i never really noticed it, but i guess the watvher was goin straight after frodo. hmmm.
another problem is u hav 2 make all of the ring heros equal in strength, or close to, sauron. otherwise ther wuld b 1 less reason 2 use the factions with the especially weak ring heros (denethor, 4 exapmle wuldnt b vry good compared 2 sauron). so either giv them lots of powers, and sauron fewer powers, or just beef ther stats wen they hav the ring.

You should DEFINATELY try the Elvenstar Mod 2, even though it's not completed, it has many good ideas like "the one ring ability" -thing. I was really dissapointed when they decided to stop the project. I'm hope RJ isn't giving up until the mod is "ready". He should focus on campaign and when it's ready, then to things like this.

As a huge rpg player, I like heroes and abilities. So totally agree with Frodo's and Boromir's abilities. Also Legolas' Slay Monster ability was great in Elvenstar Mod 1. Hmmm... Maybe I should install BFME1 again and start to play. And yes, the random german voicecovers were annoying.

Can't really think any one, who fits perfectly for Gondor's ring hero or any other good faction, since none of them shouldn't have the ring and almost none of them was interested to use it. There isn't just perfect choice, I guess it's up to RJ.

Ps. The resizing part in the movie (fellowship of the ring) is shown when Gandalf examines papers written by Isildur about the one ring in Minas Tirith.

Edited by Ergopad, 04 July 2007 - 02:21 AM.

[Allathar]

Hey, who cares it isn't realistic if Gandalf wields the one ring. Is it realistic that Gollum walks around the map with the ring? For the fun of the gameplay I'd keep myself to the list.

[Taralom]

i just went through your site.
man, too bad i don't have ROTWK. if i had.... I'd download it and played for like 24/7
it's great.
and most importantly: you did this al by yourself

i really like the bases.
i like it that you've brought the BFME1 campaign back in a new form.
it's great and i just wanted to say that.

i'm amazed

i'll be watching this mod from now on so it better be good

[Devon]

can u add more wotr colors and maybe more skirmish too, so you have all the possibilties of the bfme1 colors? Mostly wotr though, its really annoying to only have sixe colors and see isengard stuck with purple, and stuff like that.

[Dalf32]

yea, i'd really lik mor colors 4 skirmish and wotr especially.
it is kinda realistic that gollum walk round the map with the ring, he had the ring, he wore it (so he wuld b invisible occasionaly), the only non-realistic part is that the chances of him stickin around a battlefield r not vry good.

the elvenstar mod had a great team behind both its incarnations, but im leavin my original bfme2 unfiddled with bc thats the 1 that i mostly play online with and im a lvl7, so i dont wanna mess it up
i def agree with u on the hero abilities and stuff, i luv hero powers, and i think that thats 1 of the things that draws me 2 stay with the bfme series bc its kinda uncommon in an rts. its so much fun tho!
ya no, i never really payed that much attention 2 that part of the movie, i dont no y tho...

[Ergopad]

I just was wondering, what kind of gameplay balance are you planning to make between different type of units (swordsmen, archers, cavalry and pikemen)? Sorry if I missed on previous posts, but didn't find it...

I hope you are lowering the bonuses/penalties from bfme2 to bfme1's level. Because now a herd of horses will die in a heartattack, if stableboy uses too long pitchfork to shovel hay, as the pikemen have SO high bonus against cavalry.

Speaking about cavalry, are you adjusting cavalry ranged attack? As (atleast in some point) the rohirrim ranged attack did non-existant damage against pikemen. I think the good bonus/penalty percentage would be 25-40% instead of 50-75% as it is now (or atleast were on after one bfme2 patch).

And are you planning to do unit strength adjusting to different categories (light, medium, elite) as in Warcraft 3 for example? Will there be big difference between factions, for example will rohan rohirrim be much more powerful than gondor knights or haradrim lancers? Will rohirrim shield upgrade make a comeback?

And lastly, are there any plans to add the Old Forest or Barrow-Downs as campaign maps (only the hobbit heroes) with "evil ents", huorns and barrow-wraiths as enemies? Or an evil campaign map with Khamul searching for clues of name Baggings in Shire and Bree with men and hobbits as enemies?

Edited by Ergopad, 06 July 2007 - 12:45 AM.

[robnkarla]

I just was wondering, what kind of gameplay balance are you planning to make between different type of units (swordsmen, archers, cavalry and pikemen)? Sorry if I missed on previous posts, but didn't find it...

As a base, I'm using the BFME2 1.06. I liked a lot that the patch brought, but see the next comment.

I hope you are lowering the bonuses/penalties from bfme2 to bfme1's level. Because now a herd of horses will die in a heartattack, if stableboy uses too long pitchfork to shovel hay, as the pikemen have SO high bonus against cavalry.

The pikemen vs. cavalry. This is one area that I really find annoying between the differences of BFME1 and BFME2. It is not so much the actual attack, but it is the crush revenge weapons. I'm lowering the crush revenge in general for the elite pikemen. I'm planning on going through each of the revenge weapons and making 2 levels. With upgrade about what it is currently. If there are no forged blades upgrade puchased I plan on lowering it at leaast 50%.

On top of this, the smaller hordes help a little. When you hit a 15 unit horde with the insance revenge weapon, you're guaranteed to die. While I like the rock-paper scissors method, pikemen for their costs have too much of an advantage over cavalry.

Speaking about cavalry, are you adjusting cavalry ranged attack? As (atleast in some point) the rohirrim ranged attack did non-existant damage against pikemen. I think the good bonus/penalty percentage would be 25-40% instead of 50-75% as it is now (or atleast were on after one bfme2 patch).

That's kinda how it is in BFME 1.03 if I remember. They used the CAVALRY_RANGED in order to have specialists have the higher armor vs. CAVALRY_RANGED. That is how it is now in RJ-RotWK. I've re-added the CAVALRY_RANGED. As far as the damage scalar, I'd like to remove that as that's a double penalty that is not needed.

And are you planning to do unit strength adjusting to different categories (light, medium, elite) as in Warcraft 3 for example? Will there be big difference between factions, for example will rohan rohirrim be much more powerful than gondor knights or haradrim lancers? Will rohirrim shield upgrade make a comeback?

It's been ages since I played Warcraft III, and even then I was not as interested in it as I've been BFME. I'd like to develop different more differences between each of the factions. They will be more subtle though. (For example, I really like the difference in BFME1 between the Gondor Knights and the Rohirrim.0

As for the shields, they have made a comeback already! Both the knights and the rohirrim have horseshields available as a puchase. They are very similar to the BFME1. The shields help vs. Pierce and the BFME2 Stuctural damage types.

And lastly, are there any plans to add the Old Forest or Barrow-Downs as campaign maps (only the hobbit heroes) with "evil ents", huorns and barrow-wraiths as enemies? Or an evil campaign map with Khamul searching for clues of name Baggings in Shire and Bree with men and hobbits as enemies?

I thought about doing these types of maps in the campaign, but the Living World, WotR campaign does not allow for this type of map as easily as a linear campaign. If there was more scripting available in the living world I might be able to, but the difficulty lies in proximity. If I started in the shire, I would either have to limit mobility from the shire to moria or other options such as those. I've found the best thing for me to do is just to start in Moria for the Fellowship, Rivendell for the Elves, Eastfold for Rohan, and Iron Hills for the Dwarves.

I hope that answers some of the questions. Feel free to ask any more that you want. Also, pretty soon I want to get as many testers to play some MP games to work out the balance of each faction.

Robert J.

[Dalf32]

i no this is gonna sound really really selfish, but can we do these multiplayer games either 2moz (friday) or lik wednesday next week. the reason bein that im in a diff state saturday-tuesday and i really wanna get in on these games!

[Devon]

i don't think any games are scheduled yet...

[Ergopad]

Good to hear, that the horseshields are back!

And thanks for your answers and I'm glad to hear, that you are want to make the factions different from each other. In bfme1 has only four factions, but they ALL WERE DIFFERENT. I really hated when EA added haradrim lancers to Mordor! And if memory serves, rohan didn't have any pikemen in bfme1 either?

So about the cavalry's ranged attack now, does it do any damage against pikemen now? Because it really shouldn't matter if you are horsemen or on ground, you should have same damage. The whole calavry ranged penalty makes ranged attack useless. I end up recruiting only gondor knights, since rohirrim weren't any better and cost more. I'd be interesting see melee units ("swordsmen") with axes? Since axe does different type damage, as you now (the ent killer orcs!!).

And about hero abilities/powers, all heroes should have atleast ONE unique power, like theoden has his glorious charge and lurtz his arrow. Are there going to be diffrent type leaderships (like in some previous patch), not just that boring +50% def&atk, but rather only one strong bonus like +200% experience (teacher) and so on...

[robnkarla]

I'm trying to do what I can to make each faction a little more unique, but it can be difficult with 10 Rohan did have pikemen - the elves when switched to swords could be used as pikes esp. when upgraded. I'm starting out with a bunch of units, but I'll whittle away what is not needed.

As for the Cavalry Ranged. They are strong against everything except pikemen. They do need a counter and pikemen/specialist are the best option. As they are the counter they should be weak to them. Similar, soldiers and magic take out pikemen, so pikemen should not be strong against soldier. The one thing I really like about 1.06 and BT2DC is that every unit has a purpose. Creating an army of one type of unit should counterable.

With the new commandpoint system with heroes and the lowered battalion size as well as lower cp costs, the make-up of an army is really flexible. You should be able to have a few battalions of cavalry, soldiers, archers, pikemen, and it's up to you to manage and use the effectively.

For the abilities, this area I plan on being a constant improvement. As I think of new unique abilities I'll replace existing one. If I hear a suggestion of something good, I'll definitely do it. As for the leadership, the first step was the 1.06 complex leadership system with the 50 armor, 50 damage, 25/25/25. Then I've added a couple more options with some of the new heroes. The last step is to go through and adjust as needed. I'll see if I want to make more unique leaderships.

[Ergopad]

And yet another suggestion/question. Will there be libraries, with special upgrades, like in Elvenstar Mod 2?


Library really helped to spend vast resources at the end of the play and changed the battles into more epic.

Here is a list of what the libraries contained:

Elves
* Elnaith-Riders
The Elven riders ride 10% faster and cause more damage
* Bows of the Galadhrim
The new bows from Lorien allows Lorien-Archers to do +10% more damage and to shoot 15% longer.
* Ships of Mithlond
Elven ships sail 15% faster and have 10% more armor
* Spirit of Gwaihir
The Eagles gain +15% speed and are +20% more protected
* Fruits of Lorien
Ressources +20%
* Light of the Evenstar
Arwen gains +30% Damage-, armor- and +20% speedbonus.
* Wisdom of the Noldorin
All elven heroes do +10% more Damage, their special abilities do +10% more damage and charge +10% faster

MotW
* Courage of Gondor
Gondor infantry do +10% more damage.
* Iron Ore
* Grand Harvest
* Siege Materials
* Sons of the Steward
Boromir and Faramir gain +15% armor and +10% damagebonus
* Swords of Rohan
Theoden, Eomer und Eowyn erhalten +15% Rüstung und +15% Schadensbonus.
* Anduril
Aragorn gains +30% damage +20% armor, +25% more speed.
* Power of the Istari
Gandalf the White adoes +30% more damage, does +40% more damage with his Spells which also charge +25% faster

Dwarves
* Ore from the Ered Mithrin
increase your Treasures by +10%
* Mithril Vein
+20% resources
* Stones of Ered Mithrin
All dwarven buildings armor +15%
* Crusade of Dain
All dwarven infantry nearby Dain gain +15% Speedbonus
* Children of Aule
Dwarven heroes gain +10% armorbonus and +5% knockbackresistance
* Father and Son
Gimli and his father Gloin gain +15% armorbonus and +10% attackspeed

Mordor
* Leather from the South
Mumakils +10% armor and +5% speed
* Fires of Orodruin
Ressources +20%
* Dark Influence
Increases Haradrim and Easterling strength by +15% and their armor by +10%
* The Search for the One Ring
Increase the strength and Speed of the Nazgul by+30% and offer +30% armorbonus
* Haste of Morgoth
Sauron gains +10% armor- and speedbonus
* Lord of Minas Morgul
The WK gains +20% more armor- and +10% damagebonus

Isengard
* Warmongering
Uruks gain +10% speed
* Fangornwood
Ressources +20%
* Battering-Ram Armor
Battering-Rams +10% armor
* Chiefs of Orthanc
Shagrat, Ugluk and Lurtz gain 5% more speed and +10% damagebonus
* Wargdressage
Wargpits around Sharku train significantly faster Wargs
* Saruman of Many Colors
"Sarumans special abilities do +30% more damage and charge +20% faster and he is 25% faster

Goblins
* Spider-senses
All spiders near Shelob gain +10% damagebonus
* Drums of the Deep
Increase the strenght and speed of all Units about +15%
* Horde hatchery
increase the productionrate of all units by +10%
* Scorpionking
Gorkil gains +10% speed- and armorbonus on his Scorpion
* Poision of Ungolianth
Shelob causes +25% poisiondamage
* Juwels of the Deep
Ressources +20%.

[Devon]

thats kinda what SEE is doing, and also, you missed a bit of german in there