1143 replies to this topic

[{IP} Aridor]

Yes because it was hard to hold a pike and shield.

[Rafv Nin IV]

Defending a pass though, nothing can beat it.

*Watches 300*

[{IP} Aridor]

That wasn't a phalanx.

[rjorrin28]

they did use shields, but were slow-moving so archers could just shoot at them

[rjorrin28]

That wasn't a phalanx.

historicaly it should have been, it was a mistake of the movie


edit:sorry about doble post i am new here

Edited by rjorrin28, 05 September 2008 - 12:06 AM.

[Ring o' Fate]

Well, that is because they where assulted from behind them too.
Wait, WTF?!! Three posts already?! I am slow.

Edited by Ring of Fate, 05 September 2008 - 12:09 AM.

[{IP} Aridor]

No Alexander was the first to use a phalanx. The earlier Greeks, such as the Spartans at Thermopylae, used a shield wall. Which was the precursor of the phalanx.

[CIL]

Spearmen with large shields can easily block the incoming missile. They don't really move that fast. I can move my eyes faster than a gunshot, and fast enough to see one easily. I shoot archery regularly, and with the longbow I use, I can tell someone could move a shield to block the blow. Also, Phalanxes were a set shape: a rectangle. IMO, spear and shield should have slightly low attack and high defense, and perhaps, hp.

[rjorrin28]

"The word hoplite (Greek ὁπλίτης(hoplitēs) derives from hoplon (ὅπλον, plural hopla, ὅπλα) meaning an item of armour or equipment, thus 'hoplite' may approximate to 'armoured man'. Hoplites were the citizen-soldiers of the Ancient Greek City-states. They were primarily armed as spear-men and fought in a phalanx formation."
quote from wikipedia.


Alexander did not invent them, he just made really good use of phalances(sp)

Edited by rjorrin28, 05 September 2008 - 01:13 AM.

[{IP} Aridor]

quote from wikipedia.

According to The Soul of the Sword by Robert O'Connell, a highly respected military historian, a phalanx is a square formation of men using twelve to fifteen long pikes. Alexander the Great lengthened the pike to eighteen feet. The phalanx was plagued by immobility. Hoplites was simply the name for a Greek heavy soldier. They started out using man height spears and as the military became more centralized the length of the spear got longer until it was a true pike. He formed his men into a much deeper formation than the Greeks had done before, thus transforming the shield wall into a true phalanx. The death of the phalanx as a useful formation came during the Pyrrhic wars when the Roman short swordsmen tore through the out maneuvered Greek phalanx.

[rjorrin28]

thats why i said Alexander perfected phalances
but the greeks used them
and a hoplite fought in a phalanx fortmation
i know this for a fact
Alexander changed the formation. HE DID NOT CREATE PHALANX FORMATION
the phalances used by Alexander was Macedonian not Greek (i read this somewhere)

Edited by rjorrin28, 05 September 2008 - 02:45 AM.

[mike_]

The 'early version' of the phalanx was the Greek layered-shieldwall. Alexander simply took that strategy and perfected it. But, like all strategies, it was not impervious, and was defeated.

...AA's pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[{IP} Aridor]

Please quote your source.

[Scryer]

Off topic alert . Was there a particular point regarding the RJ mod that someone wanted to point out behind all of this interesting Greek history?

[rjorrin28]

a Macedonian phalanx "shields are smaller and lighter than with a traditional hoplite phalanx, the sarissa is twice as long as the traditional spears and fully enclosed helmets weren't as widespread" wikipedia
some changes made by Phillip of Macedon (Alexander's father) to the Phalanx formation

Edited by rjorrin28, 05 September 2008 - 03:32 AM.

[mike_]

Can't really...going off of logic and memory here.

[rjorrin28]

case closed
no one is alowed to mention Greeks, Macedon or Alexander in this forum again

[Devon]

I can move my eyes faster than a gunshot, and fast enough to see one easily.

Really...

[Fyro11]

He can move his eyes faster indeed, but he won't ever move fast enough...

[Hasfusel]

Hello. I'm pretty much new to Revora, but I joined mainly because I saw RJ's Rise of the Witch King mod, and as a modder myself I was interested on how the work is getting on, an I'd also like to contribute through suggestions, as I also know a lot about Tolkein's work.

Since this is the topic to post suggestions and the like, I have a few.
First, I've noticed a few minor problems and other bits of information and things I've noticed. I understand that this mod isn't nearly finished yet, and you're most probably very hard at work, but there are a few things I think wouldn't take long to fix.

- The new factions of Arnor, Rohan and Men of the East don't have faction colours (for the loading screen, end statistics, etc.) or faction icons, such as the small red eye, white hand, silver tree, dragon, dwarf symbol and leaf. Rohan's should be easy to import from BFME1, I think, but there should be faction colours for each new race. It doesn't affect much as the game models now don't have any bands of variable colour depending on chosen colour, but it adds to the whole detail and effect. I was thinking a different shade of green for Rohan, a sable colour for MotE, and a red for Arnor.

- The MotE faction doesn't seem to have an AI for the RJ maps with pre-set fortress walls.

- Some of the power descriptions are inaccurate, ranging from the wrong level requirements shown to completely wrong descriptions, such as the Summon Scorpion power being shown as King Dain's Summon Royal Guard power.

- The new elven mage units don't have a portrait, although there is an icon for them in the building menu. This is the same with some other units. Why not scale up the icons?

- The Rohan Yeoman Herald uses the Thrall Master speech when summoning Yeoman Swordsmen.

- The Bilbo model is the same as the Sam model, although I believe there already is a special hobbit model. Also, he has no speech or powers. Perhaps you could borrow the Bilbo from Nazgul's S.E.E mod? (Nazgul rather cleverly adapted some lines of speech from the film for both Bilbo and Ugluk.
Also, the Dwarves don't have Frodo as a hero, as was said.

- The hobbit Change Weapon text is shown as Change to Sticks, while they carry daggers.

- The Angmar Easterling Captain hero cannot use any of his powers, because he can't level up.

I think there are some others, although I won't list them now.

I have some quality suggestions you may want to hear, especially concerning the unfinished heroes, like the MotE wizards and other heroes.

- Ugluk could have a Carnage power (like with Lurtz), a Leadership power and a passive Haste power (increase the speed and armour of nearby Uruks)?

- Perhaps Boromir could have a Weapon Master ability?

- Radagast is a Dwarf hero, replacing the two CAHs you made? It would be more fitting with the books.

- Prince Bard has a Black Arrow ability (lvl.10) that does excellent damage against flying monsters?

- Merry has a Arnor Dagger ability (lvl.5) that does good damage against Wights and Nazgul (especially the Witch-King! ;[ )?

- Tom Bombadil is a 15 PP power, but has increased damage, durance, blast radius, and a new ability or two, such as Awaken Ent, Banish Monster, Summon Earthquake or even Arouse Whirlwind? After all, the books portray him as being much more powerful than in the game.

- When you can't find an icon or a portrait for a unit, just use the portrait that comes up when you have many units of that race selected.

The Ring Heroes

Similar to Age of Men, I've had an idea for a unique Ring Hero for each race. This Ring Hero is an upgraded version of a normal Hero, assuming that the Hero has decided to wield the One Ring (obviously, this means that the original hero is upgraded, otherwise you'd have a ringwielding Saruman and an ordinary Saruman side by side). The hero attacks like the Galadriel and Sauron units in game (a wizard blast with each hit), and has new and upgraded powers, and maybe even a new skin. Also, because resources are gained faster in this mod, Ring Heroes cost 15000. However, Gollum is harder to find (you can no longer hear his panting unless you can see him) and a Gollum the Thief is spawned at the making of your Ring Hero - if he runs into him (once within a certain radius he'll chase him), he'll steal the "precious" back and the hero will be reduced to normal.

Gondor - Gandalf the Grey -> Gandalf Silverflame (with stronger, new Wizard powers) or Boromir -> Lord Boromir of Gondor (new, powerful leadership abilities, speechcraft abilities, and dominate enemy abilities, as Boromir is very inspirational), since he always wanted the ring to become a mighty lord and drive out Mordor or Aragorn -> King Elessar the Noble (new, upgraded versions of his own powers, like Athelas becoming like Starlight, Blademaster becoming like the Witch-King's Flame Sword in Nazgul's S.E.E mod, Leadership being stronger and resist to fear, Elendil becoming stronger, lowering enemy attack and defense and with a bigger radius, and Oathbreakers containing more units and the King of the Dead.)

Rohan - I'm out of ideas here, I'm afraid. Be inventive.

Elves - Galadriel, of course, but with more powers, like Earthquake and Heal (recharges fast), maybe.

Dwarves - Prince Bard -> Bard, the Dragonslayer, with enchanted arrows that blast away enemies in a small radius, Leadership, and the special Black Arrow of Bard power that kills any flying hero in one shot and deals massive damage to other heroes. It's as if he's become the flesh and blood of his ancestor. He only has the two powers because his normal attack is so useful.

Arnor - Arvedui -> Arvedui, Flame of the West. (again, he has improved powers in the same way as Aragorn. Remeber that he'll have his Wizard Attack anyway) or Círdan the Shipwright-> Círdan the Ringsmith, with improved Wizard powers and a Summon Flood power.

Isengard - Saruman the White -> Saruman of Many Colours. (improved Wizard Blast and Fireball, the strongest Leadership ability in the game that also makes nearby buildings produce faster - this power is called Master of Isengard, a large scale Dominate and a Word of Power.) He'll be very strong as Ringlore was always his strong point, and recovering the Ring has always been his ambition.

Mordor - Mordor loses the Eye of Sauron power, but gains the Sauron unit, with an extra Dominate power.

Goblins - Gorkil the Goblin King -> The Great Goblin. He has a great sweep attack, an earthquake attack, and a summon dragon ability.

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Thank you very much. I hope this is helpful.