232 replies to this topic

[Elen Naro]

As for the mearas being faster than the elven steeds, wouldn't the great horses of Valinor outrun them? (Of course these are of no real significance in the 3rd age, save perhaps for Glorfindel, Aragorn and the roquentari, but none of them should be able to outrun Shadowfax).

Not if legend is true, no. The Mearas are said to be descended from the Lord of Horses himself - Orome's great steed Nahar. However, that doesn't stop there from being other descendants of Nahar in Valinor - kin of the Mearas, so to speak, but (apart from Nahar, obviously) none would be 'obviously' or 'specially' better than the Mearas of Middle-earth. To be honest, we just don't have enough information, but on the whole, the descandants of Nahar are going to be the best, regardless of them being steeds of Elves or Men.

Where does that come from?

[Lauri]

accuracy increase must be done by weapon change
But it's possible, aye...

Although, I don't like the idea... I don't think that a veteran captain hits more often than a new one... Because a trebuchet is unpredictable... It doesnt' hit better by human assistance...

[Thorin]

As for the mearas being faster than the elven steeds, wouldn't the great horses of Valinor outrun them? (Of course these are of no real significance in the 3rd age, save perhaps for Glorfindel, Aragorn and the roquentari, but none of them should be able to outrun Shadowfax).

Not if legend is true, no. The Mearas are said to be descended from the Lord of Horses himself - Orome's great steed Nahar. However, that doesn't stop there from being other descendants of Nahar in Valinor - kin of the Mearas, so to speak, but (apart from Nahar, obviously) none would be 'obviously' or 'specially' better than the Mearas of Middle-earth. To be honest, we just don't have enough information, but on the whole, the descandants of Nahar are going to be the best, regardless of them being steeds of Elves or Men.

Where does that come from?

Memory, can't remember where I read it. I doubt it was LOTR as they hardly mention the Valar at all. Probably Unfinished Tales or Morgoth's Ring.

[Bard]

It is also briefly mentioned in the Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, Appendix A, The House of Eorl:

'...The horse understood all that men said, though he would allow no man but Eorl to mount him. It was upon Felarof that Eorl rode to the Field of Celebrant; for that horse proved as long lived as Men, and so were his descendants. These were the mearas, who would bear no one but the King of the Mark or his sons, until the time of Shadowfax. Men said of them that Bema (whom the Eldar call Orome) must have brought their sire from West over Sea.'

[Foe-of-the-Nine]

I assume someone's mentioned this already... BUT PLEASE MAKE COMBO HORDES CAPABLE OF DIVIDING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like Haradrim on the Mumak... capable of leaving it... that way you can retreat half the battalion while the other serves as rear guard... esp. useful when you're getting swarmed... at a choke point... But Please PLEASE PLEASE make combining hordes reversible...

[m@tt]

It is doable. But there is one big bug - shared experience and upgrades. If you combine a FU, Lvl 10 horde with a freshly built Lvl1 horde, then seperate them, you get 2 FU, Lvl 10 hordes. Yes this is good is a way, but it's a bug that will be exploited to no end by people and will cause huge annoyance in multiplayer.

[Foe-of-the-Nine]

you can't program it to divide the XP? or cost an uber amount of resource? if for nothing else for when you screw up and accidentally combine Cavalry with Infantry... if ur not wanting to do that... you basically lost like... 800 resource or whatever you paid for the men/cavalry...

[Thorin]

It is doable. But there is one big bug - shared experience and upgrades. If you combine a FU, Lvl 10 horde with a freshly built Lvl1 horde, then seperate them, you get 2 FU, Lvl 10 hordes. Yes this is good is a way, but it's a bug that will be exploited to no end by people and will cause huge annoyance in multiplayer.

How? If both teams can do it they will cancel each other out.

[Foe-of-the-Nine]

then again... it does defeat the purpose of experience... hmm... if only you could get around that somehow... BTW regardless I think combo hordes should cost double to upgrade common upgrades (ie peasant/yeomen for rohan should have to pay double for heavy armor)...

[Lauri]

Well....

For some units it costs like, 800 for forged blades, while others have if for 350... Because they've got Blacksmiths\Industries (whatever the bad guys have)...

And it's still cheating.. Some might not know about it, and if you use it you can't really say "he can use it too, 'cause it's an unfixable bug!"

Still, I don't really see the point in merging them at all if you wanna separate them afterwards... Sure, you might do it to protect them in a defence, and separate them and then go to a counter-attack... (archer-melee)... but yeah... IMO, they shouldn't be able to separate at all, biggest reason being the bugs about it...

[mike_]

I agree, though I would greatly like to be able to seperate my accidental cavalry-infantry hordes, I think the cons outnumber the pros in this instance.
Cheers,
-mike

[Thorin]

And it's still cheating.. Some might not know about it, and if you use it you can't really say "he can use it too, 'cause it's an unfixable bug!"

So is it cheating for someone to use good tactics because the enemy doesn't know how to use them? Is is cheating for using a hero's ability because someone might not know that you can click on palantir icons? I'm not sure if I like the general idea, but it's certainly not because it's cheating or unbalancing - it being the same for every player.

[Lauri]

It's cheating when you combine the hordes to gain the upgrades and experience from the one who has it... I would've thought you would know the manner I meant...


You do realize that if you buy the upgrades for one horde, you could damn well get the upgrades for the rest of the army for free, only paying a little amount of time? The hordes can't stop merging after you've separated them You'd save thousands!

And that's how it's cheating... I for one, wouldn't have bothered to do all that, but some would...
I know that you think that they should be able to separate, but I do to, it's just that I do not longer think that when they gain the extras, and can take them with them afterwards...

[Thorin]

Is it not possible for them to remember each individual horde's experience?

[Nertea]

No, it's not possible. And to be more precise on the unfairness... not all factions can do it! Look at mordor with its lack of upgrades - the most they can do is get free exp. Gondor can get like 1000 resources free per batt at least.

[Thorin]

I didn't know that combining hordes also gave a non-upgraded horde all the upgrades of the other one. So fair enough.

[Foe-of-the-Nine]

o well if its unfixable... I guess killing off an accident combo is better than dealing with all that other crap...

[Lauri]

I didn't know that combining hordes also gave a non-upgraded horde all the upgrades of the other one. So fair enough.

Ah... Well, if it weren't for that, I wouldn't be against it... My own units rather dies than to level up, so it wouldn't really matter if it was just the XP...
If it was just the XP, I would certainly not see on it as cheating

[Elen Naro]

Is it possible to arrange units in formations without combining the hordes, so archers will get behind infantry? That would allow for better tactical control in big battles.

[mike_]

You can manually position the units, yes.
However, it doesn't officially count as a formation, and so they won't get any stat bonuses from it.
Cheers,
-mike