248 replies to this topic

[Emperor of the East]

As you may know the current spellbooks' spell selection for the 6 factions is not entirely satisfying: too many duplicate spells (including duplication of hero powers), impact and reload times are not really balanced (though Nazgûl already adjusted some of their costs), arbitrary and sometimes quite unsuitable division among the factions and more.
To address this, i have come up with a few ideas on how to rearrange/alter existing spells (without adjustment to cost and other values so far) as well as a few suggestions regarding additional spell to be added to specific factions. One thing new; every factions should have a definite and unique 'theme' the flows through the whole of the spellbook. Mind that the following list is not complete at all. All factions should have 12 spells, but they should already differ in the selection of the very first powers.


Spellbook-Overview

General Notes:

• The usual summon spells (temporary summons) should have a definite location that they appear from, either they can only be used on woods (for ambush type summons) or anywhere, but are arriving from the map edge, like smaug does. Since the watcher is immobile, he should be able to appear just about anywhere.
• Location/Building Summons (like Lone Tower) should STAY UNTIL KILLED, but the spell button should only be recharging, once all of them are dead. They should cost the usual CP's or even more, but be summonable, no matter if the limit has already been met.
• Spells that i find unsuitable for a faction are noted as '(Uns.)' and are colored RED
• Moved or altered spells are colored CYAN
• New spells, or rather spells not in the original BfME2 skirmish spellbooks are colored YELLOW

'
Factions Spellbooks and their themes

Men of the West (Theme: Allies and Economy)

• Heal 'Location Summon' (Summons healing well. Too many heroes already have a healing spell in the game)
• RallyingCall
• Rebuild
• TomBombadil 'Location Summon' (different from usual sommon: summons Tom, Goldberry, their house and garden. Are unselectable. Bound to house [his 'domain'] like Warg bound to Warg chain. But cannot be released and respawn like creep units.)
• HobbitAllies (only in woods)
• DunedainAllies (only once we make them unique enough to significantly differ from IthilienRangers)
• LoneTower 'Location Summon'
• EagleAllies (high lifetime, recharge only when dead)
• Remove Arrow Volley (Too many units have this already, as well as many other factions. Use exclusively for Elves)
• CloudBreak
• Dol-Amroth Allies (instead of Rohirrim)
• Pûkelmen Stonering 'Location Summon' (Stonering akin to the entmoot with different skins and statues instead or in addition of stones; unselectable Drûedain defending the ring agains enemies of MotW.
• ArmyoftheDead (Only usable on area around Aragorn)
• Remove Earthquake (Only for Dwarves, maybe caused by undermining)

'
Elves (Theme: Forces of Nature)

• RallyingCall
• Remove Heal (Too many heroes already have a healing spell. Fortress Upgrades and Healing Wells are abundant. Also all elven units have innate regeneration, just like heroes)
• Farsight (Like Palantir, also provide a bonus to allied troops in the area)
• EnshroudingMist
• ArrowVolley
• Gush of Air (Area attack that mostly does almost only kockback damage)
• ElvenWood
• CloudBreak
• Huornwood 'Location Summon' (Huorns[like ents, but no moving capabilities], only in woods, behavior like Tom above)
• Remove EntAllies (already buildable, but see above line for an alternative)
• Remove EagleAllies and add them to Dwarves (They already have an Eirie, which could enable them to buy 2 normal Eagles + Gwaihir instead)
• Tornado (remove from Galadriel and give her something appropriate, she has the ring of water after all)
• Flood
• Sunflare

'
Dwarves (Themes: Buildings, Siege and Economy)
...

Mordor (Themes: Dark Forces of Nature, Corruption and War)
...

Isengard (Themes: Economy, Exploitation and Direct Assault)
...

Wild (Themes: Dragons, Fell Creatures, Pillage and Sneaky Tactics)
...

I'll add the rest of my handwritten notes at a later date. This is not really pressing since all is geared to complete BetaIV anyways:

I have an idea for a theme for the Men of the East faction (see article: "Evil Men" Faction!). The tree linked here is Beremir's.

Men of the East (Theme: Desert Heat, Persuasion, and Allies)
>>>Post 806 has BEREMIR'S powers idea, NOT mine!<<<

[khamulrulz]

Here's my ideas, with some powers taken from previous posters, and some of my own ideas added to them. i didn't repeat any powers, although some have similar themes, like weather or warchant.

MotW (Themes: Duty, Allies):

5-Healing Well
5-Horn of the West (same as rallying call, but inspires fear in enemies as well)
5-Eyes of the White Tower (Denethor had a palantir)
-----
13-Tribute of the South (summons lamedon clansmen, bowmen of blackroot vale)
10-Druedain Stonering (defended by unselectable woses)
10-Hobbit Allies (bow/stone/staff toggle)
10-Arrow Volley
-----
15-Fair Wind (weather power)
17-Oath of Eorl (summons rohirrim cavalry)
16-Rangers of the North (sword/bow toggle)
-----
31-Summon Oathbreakers
26-Blessing of the Dunedain (selected units take only 50% of damage, and none die for a period of time)


Elves (Themes: Forces of Nature):

5-Elven Gifts (rallying call, plus stealth)
5-Farsight
5-Grace of the Valar (heal)
-----
10-Cloud Break
13-House of Tom Bombadil (unselectable, includes Goldberry who is based off Galadriel's model)
10-Elven Wood
10-Enshrouding Mist
-----
15-Huorn Grove (unselectable, similar to warg sentry except with huorns. they don't move)
17-Summon Radagast (can mount eagle)
17-Tornado
-----
25-Sunflare
26-Flood


Dwarves (Themes: Economy, Underground):

5-Rallying Call (emphasis on armor)
5-Rebuild
5-Raven's View
-----
10-Dwarven Riches
10-Fortification (their version of elven wood, with some dwarven buildings and pavement)
10-Summon Dale allies (dale archers and swordsmen)
10-Mining Expedition (forge works stuff is cheaper and faster)
-----
18-Barrage
16-Summon Beorning Allies (bear/man toggle)
15-Undermine
-----
30-Earthquake
25-Citadel


Men of the East (Themes: Corruption, Desert):

5-Corruption (same as blight, slows down enemy production building)
5-Desert Wind (bunches units together, they lose their vision)
5-Stirred Hatred (rallying call, emphasis on damage)
-----
12-Summon Rhunnic Tribesmen (small horde of "grim bearded Easterlings with axes)
10-Coerce (smaller radius than isengard and mordor)
10-Bountiful Oasis (industry)
12-Quicksand Bog (slows selected enemies down)
-----
15-Awaken Wyrm (in the hobbit it said there were "were-worms" in the eastern desert)
17-Summon Blue Wizards
16-Heatwave (small sunflare)
-----
30-Mumak Rampage (4 or 5 enter the map and just run wild)
27-Sinkhole

Isengard (Themes: Economy, Industrialization)

5-Vision of the Palantir
5-Crebain of Dunland
5-Ravaged Land (tainted land)
-----
10-Industry
11-Urgency (200% speed for selected infantry units)
10-Summon Dunlendings
12-Devastation
-----
15-Fuel the Fires
15-Voice of Saruman (coerce, but large radius)
15-Choking Fumes (weather power, but also slows down enemy units)
-----
28-Fury of Caradhras (avalanche)
30-Mine Volley


Moria (Themes: Wild Monsters):

5-Cave Bats
5-Tainted Land
5-Drums of the Deep (war chant, gives fear to enemies)
-----
10-Scavenger
10-Summon Spiderlings (cannot trample, shock troops)
10-Summon Wild Warg Pack (led by alpha, can trample)
10-Untamed Allegiance
-----
15-Darkness (vision bonus to units as well)
16-Watcher in the Water
18-Call from the Deep (summons two fire drakes, these are no longer heroes or from the treasure trove)
-----
32-Summon Balrog
30-Summon Smaug (dragon strike)


Mordor (Themes: Corruption, Mount Doom):

5-Eye of Sauron
5-War Chant (emphasis on damage)
5-Accursed Land (tainted land)
-----
10-Call the Horde
10-Barricade
13-Build Me An Army Worthy of My Command (name is a bit long, controls next unit spawned from an enemy infantry barracks)
12-Black Numenorean Sorcerers (2 sorcerers from rotwk) i know you guys will disagree with this, but in the book it said that the mouth of sauron, the witch-king, and some of the other nazgul were "great sorcerers". i assume that there would be other black numenoreans other than the mouth of sauron
-----
15-Ash and Shadow (darkness)
15-Swear Your Allegiance (large-radius coerce)
17-Call of the Wild (summons cave, mountain, and attack trolls)
-----
30-Summon Dragon
30-Rain of Fire

Edited by khamulrulz, 20 November 2009 - 12:08 PM.

[Latinsnake]

Well, I would prefer Balrog as a Mordor-Spell, too

But I also want to let the Balrog have more life and a bit more damage to buildings and therefor you need 35 points

[khamulrulz]

i revised my spellbook in my 4.8 suggestion thread. there's quite a few changes, as well as the inclusion of rohan.

[Nazgûl]

From this topic we should be able to extract enough spells to fill each faction's book

[khamulrulz]

So people don't have to look at another thread for spellbook powers, here is my revised power list (includes Rohan). I tried to keep each faction unique, with their powers suiting their faction in the lore and movies. all summons stay alive except for tier 4 summons like smaug, dragon

GONDOR

Powers: (Themes: Duty, Allies)

5-Healing Well
5-Horn of the West (same as rallying call, but inspires fear in enemies as well)
5-Eyes of the White Tower (Denethor had a palantir)
-----
12-Tribute of the South (summons lamedon clansmen, bowmen of blackroot vale)
12-Summon the Sons of Elrond
10-Hobbit Allies (bow/stone/staff toggle)
10-Arrow Volley
-----
15-Fair Wind (weather power)
17-Oath of Eorl (summons rohirrim cavalry)
16-Rangers of the North (sword/bow toggle)
-----
30-Summon Oathbreakers
25-Blessing of the Dunedain (selected units take only 50% of damage, and none die for a period of time)

ROHAN

Powers: (Themes: War, Horses)

5-Heal
5-Horn of the Mark (rallying call)
5-Great Meadow (equivalent of tainted land/elven wood)
-----
10-Spirit of the Mearas (selected cavalry gain +100% speed)
10-Druedain Stonering (defended by unselectable woses)
10-Muster the Rohirrim (call the horde)
10-Mount Your Steeds (converts selected units into riders of rohan)
-----
15-A New Sunrise (weather power)
17-They Return the Favour (summons a few battalions of gondorian warriors, spearmen, archers, and knights)
15-That is no Orc Horn (summons a few battalions of galadhrim warriors)
-----
25-Wrath of the Ents (summons six ents, who wreck enemy buildings and units)
25-Ride to Ruin! (huge wave of riders come from offscreen and charge through selected area, sort of like flood)

EREBOR

Powers: (Themes: Economy, Underground)

5-Rallying Call (emphasis on armor)
5-Rebuild
5-Raven's View
-----
10-Dwarven Riches
10-Fortification (their version of elven wood, with some dwarven buildings and pavement)
11-Summon Dale allies (dale archers and swordsmen)
10-Mining Expedition (forge works stuff is cheaper and faster)
-----
18-Barrage
16-Summon Beorning Allies (bear/man toggle)
15-Undermine
-----
30-Earthquake
25-Citadel

LORIEN

Powers: (Themes: Forests, Forces of Nature)

5-Elven Gifts (rallying call, plus stealth)
5-Farsight
5-Grace of the Valar (heal)
-----
10-Cloud Break
11-House of Tom Bombadil (unselectable, includes Goldberry who is based off Galadriel's model)
10-Elven Wood
10-Enshrouding Mist
-----
15-Huorn Grove (unselectable, similar to warg sentry except with huorns. they don't move)
16-Summon Radagast (can mount eagle)
17-Tornado
-----
25-Sunflare
27-Flood

RHUN/HARAD

Powers: (Themes: Corruption, Desert)

5-Corruption (same as blight, slows down enemy production building)
5-Desert Wind (bunches units together, they lose their vision)
5-Stirred Hatred (rallying call, emphasis on damage)
-----
10-Nomad Hardiness (selected allies are invulnerable for a while)
10-Bountiful Oasis (industry)
10-Quicksand Bog (slows selected enemies down)
10-Aid from Mordor (tribute carts from bfme1 arrive off map, resources double)
-----
15-Awaken Wyrm (in the hobbit it said there were "were-worms" in the eastern desert)
17-Sinkhole
15-Summon Khand Allies
-----
30-Mumak Rampage (4 or 5 enter the map and just run wild)
28-Sandstorm

ISENGARD

Powers: (Themes: Economy, Industrialization)

5-Vision of the Palantir
5-Crebain of Dunland
5-Ravaged Land (tainted land)
-----
10-Industry
10-Urgency (200% speed for selected infantry units)
11-Summon Dunlendings (pillagers and riders)
11-Devastation
-----
15-Fuel the Fires
15-Voice of Saruman (coerce, but large radius)
15-Choking Fumes (weather power, but also slows down enemy units)
-----
28-Fury of Caradhras (avalanche)
30-Mine Volley

MORIA

Powers: (Themes: Wild Monsters, Moria Creatures)

5-Cave Bats
5-Tainted Land
5-Drums of the Deep (war chant, gives fear to enemies)
-----
10-Scavenger
12-Summon Spiders of Mirkwood (spiderlings, plus 1 battalion spider riders)
10-Summon Wild Warg Pack (whole pack, like isengard in rotwk, can trample)
10-Untamed Allegiance
-----
15-Darkness (vision bonus to units as well)
16-Watcher in the Water
17-Summon Mountain Giants
-----
30-Summon Dragon
28-Summon Smaug (dragon strike)

MORDOR

Powers: (Themes: Corruption, Mount Doom)

5-Eye of Sauron
5-War Chant (emphasis on damage)
5-Accursed Land (tainted land)
-----
10-Call the Horde
10-Barricade
12-Build Me An Army Worthy of My Command (name is a bit long, controls next unit spawned from an enemy infantry barracks)
11-Summon Barrow-Wights
-----
15-Ash and Shadow (darkness)
15-Swear Your Allegiance (large-radius coerce)
17-Summon Host of the East (mumak, haradrim archers, wainriders, corsairs, and easterling pikemen)
-----
30-Volcano (bursts out of ground, spits lava everywhere)
30-Rain of Fire

Edited by khamulrulz, 07 January 2010 - 03:11 AM.

[Jonasking]

25-Death! (huge wave of riders come from offscreen and charge through selected area, sort of like flood)

How about:
Ride to ruin!

Edited by Jonasking, 08 November 2009 - 01:15 AM.

[khamulrulz]

good suggestion. i have changed it

[Jonasking]

Those Spellbooks ideas is really good.

Took some time to realize it but I hope the team take a look at those.

Good work, keep the ideas coming.

Edited by Jonasking, 09 November 2009 - 02:50 PM.

[khamulrulz]

gondor and rohan aren't being split until 4.8.

and did you even read my power list (post #226)? muster the rohirrim (call the horde) is a 10-point power for rohan

[syasadh]

gondor and rohan aren't being split until 4.8.

and did you even read my power list (post #226)? muster the rohirrim (call the horde) is a 10-point power for rohan

WOW, like really WOW. Sorry! My mistake. Didn't see it at all. I really need to stop staying up late studying.
Great ideas by the way now that I have actually read them.

[khamulrulz]

yeah thanks, its okay we all have misunderstandings (although now that u have deleted your post, my response looks a bit random). i hope that most (if not all, although that's a bit of a stretch) of these powers get implemented in a future beta. like i have said previously, i spent a lot of time coming up with powers that would suit each faction's identity.

[syasadh]

yeah thanks, its okay we all have misunderstandings (although now that u have deleted your post, my response looks a bit random). i hope that most (if not all, although that's a bit of a stretch) of these powers get implemented in a future beta. like i have said previously, i spent a lot of time coming up with powers that would suit each faction's identity.

If these powers are implemented, I think 4.8 is going to be awesome.

[Nazgûl]

Oh, you got yourself an Avatar there Kham... good! Makes it easier to distinguish ppl =)

[isledebananas]

I can't really come up with any huge lists as of yet, but I do have two suggestions.

For Erebor I think a passive power that perhaps summons a raven or ravens that will auto-scout the map for you. This would make up for the dwarves difficulty in scouting since they have no really fast units. The ravens would be unkillable so you don't just end up losing them if they go into enemy territory.

From what I read that whole thing with Saruman conjouring a storm seems pretty popular. Graphically creating a mountain dropping on someone or even a blizzard would be kind of tough. However, the actual spell itself its initial effect was to severely slow down the fellowships speed at crossing. So this spell could be cast on any area(pretty big AOE) and slows down the movement and attack speeds of all enemy units in that area. This could maybe denoted by darkening the area with high speed rain or some kind of weird aura around the enemy units.

[khamulrulz]

haha if you read post #226, the dwarves have a raven power. and the avalanche spell is being taken from rotwk for the isengard spellbook.

MAJOR update: i updated post 226 with rhun and harad spellbooks

[Emperor of the East]

@khamulrulz: those are some quite fitting ideas...

Edited by Emperor of the East, 17 November 2009 - 08:28 PM.

[Nazgûl]

If we ever run dry on ideas, Kham will be there to rescue us!

[khamulrulz]

just as a note, the summoned sorcerers for rhun and mordor would not be as powerful as rotwk.
i would give the better powers like corpse rain and well of souls to pallando, since when tolkien first created him he was a maia of mandos, the judger of death.
so that leaves two spells left. one for rhun summon guys (fell strength) and one for mordor ones (soul freeze). that way they aren't as OP as they are in rotwk.

[khamulrulz]

i have remerged the rhun and harad factions, because i think that the rohan split is more important, and i heard that rohan is the last split to be done in 4.8

i would rather the mod be completed with rhun and harad together than have the mod freeze in production trying to make another faction split.

edit: i have made some minor changes to the spellbook on my 4.8 suggestion thread, so i think there's one or two powers different from my latest post on this one

Edited by khamulrulz, 25 January 2010 - 11:57 AM.