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"EvilMen" faction!


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#781 Guest_KP_*

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 04:11 AM

Ranger73: Okay, so you vote anything but Red Mountains. What's your choice amoung the others?

DigiByte: Glad to hear that you came back to working on parts of the mod.

Nazgul: I hope I can give some good ideas with these:

Haradrim anti-cavalry from Total War
or THIS if its more realistic...

Easterling Archery from Fourth Age BfME-1 mod
Rhun should have mounted archers to...

Get both infantry and cavalry on the walls.

Mahud infantry (Total War)

And some Khandish design from BfME-1 mod 4th Age

I didn't want the post to be to long so I saved the name and heroes for another time :p

#782 Skipper 24

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 07:46 PM

Officially I left SEE some time ago, But I found out no-one was finishing my models so... WEll im back to finished the Rhun stuff.


Sounds great. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished models.
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#783 Guest_KP_*

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:13 PM

Boring.

*Yawns*

How many mods have an evil men faction? Try coming up with something more unique and I might actually offer you some constructive ideas, rather than summing up the entire thread in one word :p

Personally, I'd say split Rohan/Dale out of their respective faction(s) and replace goblins with them. That way is atleast unique (maybe not the Rohan thing, but the good/evil unbalance).

Lets face it, evil is split into two groups, Isengard and Mordor. Even these 2 are not very independent. Good however is split up into tons of independently acting kingdoms. It's not like the evil side where 1 lord holds dominion over all. I say unbalance good/evil (not that it makes a tiny bit of difference, for all you morons who are bound to come in arguing that there is now more good factions than evil).

Also, with evil being squashed into two factions, it gives them more variety, which IMO they have always lacked.

Zimoo, WHAT WAS THAT????? You are on the project team and you believe that Sauron is the only kingdom-leader of evil and his allies are ACTUALLY his servants???? :excl: Why don't you hurry up and READ SOME OF THE TOLKIEN FRANCHISE BOOKS??? I personally think that any book about the armies of middle-earth (Weapons and Warfare, aside from lying about MotD's fate) would be great healthy-food for the LotR section of your brain :thumbsupsmiley: ;) :xcahik_: . And the more factions a mod has, the more variety it has! Aren't things great when we work together??? :cool2:

#784 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 01:31 PM

*hem* KP, Sauron's allies were basically his servants, and at his beck and call. When's the last time you cracked a book open?
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#785 Guest_KP_*

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

I knew that, but they were not his direct servants as Zimoo is implying they were. They were people who served him through their own aims of... whatever they had in common with him, basically :p. And by the way, I have cracked open a book TODAY: a Middle-earth atlas that presents "Servants of Morgoth/Sauron" and Evil Men as two different troop-lines. On the same day in the morning, I cracked open Weapons and Warfare, which offered a visual guide to what even Tolkien would say is correct: Sauron, Orcs, Goblins, Balrog, Cave Trolls, Mordor Trolls, Mouth of Sauron, Siege Equipment, and Nazgul are presented by an stretched evil-eye; Saruman, Uruk-hai, Warg Riders, Dunlendings, and Isengard by a big hand, Haradrim and Mumakil came in with a aztec-looking eye with lid symbol, and Easterlings represented by a persian-looking diamond shape. And, I read the actual novels and they said nothing about Sauron's allies serving him directly, and his allies' descriptions talk only about them serving him throught their aims of what they have in common with him :p

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#786 Beriadan

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 08:33 AM

I am with Zimoo on this.

Ok, Easterlings and Haradrim were not as servants of Sauron as Orcs and Trolls were, but they didn't have much of a will of their own, they actually submitted to the power of Sauron.

I, on the other hand, think they should be kept as part of Mordor, Isengard (whose "servants" and not allies were for instance the Dunlendings) being the other faction of Evil, as it was in Tolkien's depiction of the Third Age.

I love it that the names Erebor, Lórien and Gondor are coming :good: Rohan is needed, too ;) for real

Also, I commented this to Naz a while back, although he might not recall it: "EvilMen", not cool, something like Men of the East, or Rhun (to keep with the LOCATION naming thing), a lot better :p

You might say "Haradrim are not from Rhun", but then again I would say, yes they are! Rhun means "East" in Sindarin, as you may know, and these kingdoms of evil men were LOCATED to the "East" of Middle-earth. You have to accept it, it's waaay better than "EvilMen" =/

#787 Mordor Slayer

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 10:33 AM

Evil Men is not the official name. I think we were gonna take Men of the East, but I'm not sure. But it will change.
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#788 Beriadan

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 02:57 AM

Oh ok, that sounds better :dry:

Men of the East is more appropriate, but a location name, like all the other factions, would be better. Although on second thoughts, I wonder if it isn't better to keep them as part of Mordor, after all, they men of Rhun and Harad acted like some sort of division of the armies of Mordor. What you guys think? Although I suppose Naz and Sul and the team already made up their minds about the new faction. What was that about only being able to ad 1 more faction? Rohan should totally be in the mod ^_^

*Edited to correct a couple nasty errors :p

Edited by Beriadan, 12 July 2009 - 03:34 AM.


#789 zakske

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:00 AM

While I agree with you on the name part ("Men Of The East" wouldn't really fit as much with the other names as Rhun IMO), I think it would be too much to keep them with Mordor, which is already an overpowered faction. More different factions means more variety, more unique elements and more opportunities to balance everything in an original way (It also means much more work, but most of the work has already been done, so that would be another reason not to keep the EvilMen faction with Mordor).

What that was about only being able to add one more faction?

Well, in BFME2 there's only room for one more faction that is able to use the extra stuff like CaH, so adding Rohan as a separate faction will be perfectly possible, and I think it has already been decided that this will happen.

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 12:54 PM

I am in full agreement with calling them "Men of the East". "Evil Men" is vague, boring, and overused. "Men of the South" is another good idea, because A. This faction's most numerous troops are the Haradrim, B. It is referring to the "scorched lands", C. The hero army leader who brought Harad and Rhun together (Black Serpent is his title, not his name) is Haradrim-born. Otherwise, "Men of the East" is a perfect name. :dry: And, um, Beridan, Sauron offered the Haradrim Gondor's lands in exchange for their loyalty, and the Haradrim have hated Gondorians sice before Sauron re-relocated himself from the North Waste (where he fled to following the ruin of Angband and death of Morgoth) to Mordor. And the Easterlings are slightly a different story. In the Beleriand days, Morgoth offered the Easterlings the lands of Hithlum in exchange for their loyalty. When Morgoth died, they headed back to Rhun and encountered the Numenoreans who they hated for the same reason the Haradrim hated them: greed for land. When these two armies discovered that Sauron alos hated the Men of the West/North as much as they did, they came to him,and he offered Gondor's lands to the Haradrim and Rohan's lands to the Easterlings, of course they were looking for revenge, remembering how the Numenoreans had removed them from their bordering locations and expected them to sell land for free, and going to war on them if they expected any pay. That's the history of the Mordor-MotE alliance :p

#791 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 01:01 PM

...I see you've done some research since we last met. :p However, Men of the South wouldn't work. Firstly, Rohan and Rhun are on roughly the same latitude, which puts Rhun north of Gondor. Men of the South could be expected of a Gondor-Harad alliance, but not a Rhun-Harad coalition. On the other hand, Rhun and Harad are on roughly the same longitude, which makes it more geographically accurate to refer to them as "Men of the East."

I hope that helped out somewhat.

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Edited by {IRS}Athos, 11 July 2009 - 01:01 PM.

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#792 Guest_KP_*

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 09:58 PM

I did do research, and as for your response, it did help ;). MotE is geographically correct :D . We'll call them that and have the things I offered to Nazgul be added in! :p

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#793 Dark_l0rd_Davian

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 03:34 AM

i think i like MOTE better.since theres MOTW and its sounds better than harad,rhun and khand as a whole name.what about easterlings?would that work?
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#794 zakske

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 12:43 PM

i think i like MOTE better.since theres MOTW and its sounds better than harad,rhun and khand as a whole name.what about easterlings?would that work?


Men Of The West will be replaced by 2 separate factions: Rohan and Gondor. This is why I would think of Men Of The East as out of place...

By the way, as Beriadan said:

You might say "Haradrim are not from Rhun", but then again I would say, yes they are! Rhun means "East" in Sindarin, as you may know, and these kingdoms of evil men were LOCATED to the "East" of Middle-earth.


Rhun at least has my vote!

Easterlings would have my second vote, but I still like having a territory attached to the name more....

#795 Lord Fox

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:46 PM

Men of the West is being split up? o.O, i always liked them just being together.Anyways to the topic at hand, i personaly just like the men of the east, simple and to the point! :thumbsupsmiley: Having other names like Rhun, is somewhat confusing for me because i dont really study lotr lore :crazed: .
Well thats my input, keep up the good work! :xcahik_:
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#796 ttandchotmail

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 06:33 AM

What about something like

Servants of Sauron

or

Army of Sauron

or

Eastern Armies of Sauron
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#797 Guest_KP_*

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:50 AM

What about something like

Servants of Sauron

or

Army of Sauron

or

Eastern Armies of Sauron

Men of the East will be the OFFICIAL name. Otherwise, it would be:

Supporters of Sauron

or

Allies of Sauron

or

Eastern Allies of Sauron

That is the function...
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#798 ttandchotmail

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:39 AM

KP where are you getting this information from? I havn't seen any info saying that WILL be the OFFICIAL name of the faction.

Edited by ttandchotmail, 15 July 2009 - 05:44 AM.

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#799 zakske

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 08:05 AM

I think he just wants to make the point that the Men Of The East shouldn't be bound to Sauron as being his property (Servants of, Army of, Eastern Army of), that they are still somewhat independent, so they are only supporters or allies of Sauron...

I don't like the way of saying this will be the OFFICIAL name, but I think that was just a misunderstanding... I guess he rather meant it as "It would fit better."

Edited by zakske, 15 July 2009 - 08:05 AM.


#800 ttandchotmail

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 09:18 AM

G'day Zakske

Ok thanks mate but I respectfully disagree with him :good:


If you remember the parts of the movie with gandalf and sarumon

Quote from sarumon

You did not think that a hobbit could contend with the will of sauron did you? Their are none that can.

Quote from Gandalf

Their is only one lord of the ring, only one can bend it to his rule. And he does not share power.

Quote from gollum ( 2nd movie )

Wicked men, servants of sauron

Quote from faramir

Servants of the Dark Tower ( also meaning Sauron )

Quote from gandalf (3rd movie )

Our enemy is ready, his full strength gathered. Not only orcs but men as well. Legions of haradrim from the south. Mercenaries from the coast. All will answer Mordors call.


Now I'm sure some of these quotes were in the books. And they sure don't sound like Sauron is asking his neighbors politely to help him out. It sounds like he is in charge of it all. If your going to say that they were supporters or allies then you have to say the same for sarumon which I think is wrong. Evil dosn't have allies they have the one in charge and their henchmen.

I don't see why they can't be called servants. I would not call them allies as being called an ally implies you have a choice in the matter. I seriously doubt they were given much of a choice, unless you consider join him or die a choice.

Edited by ttandchotmail, 15 July 2009 - 09:19 AM.

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