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"EvilMen" faction!


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#41 Garrison Nomad

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:30 AM

BoG had some seriously great Evil Men stuff...but later on didn't they decide to cut elves and split Evil Men into Rhun and Harad? Maybe if you make an evil men faction you could make Harad, and leave the Rhun stuff with Mordor. It would make sense since Rhun is north of Mordor and Harad is close to Umbar. Besides, there's more Harad material than Rhun and you could always create a new kind of Corsair, possibly even several.

I like Clonecommand's idea of separating rohan and then adding evil men/harad. That would let you add a lot more rohan and gondor material and get rid of the clutter of heroes.
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#42 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:44 AM

I'm pretty sure Naz and i will stick together. :xcahik_: It's not that i don't like the idea of evil men, it's just that there is so much stuff still to do even without a new faction, well, you know where this goes, hehe. ^_^

As Naz already said, far far future ... So don't stop throwing stuff together. :D

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#43 Nazgûl

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 03:39 AM

:D This thread REALLY took on a rolling snow ball effect... ^_^

Before you all go to crazy with ideas... this thing is STILL not (really) open for discussion on HOW to do it, rather than IF we (I) should do it... :xcahik_: ;)

Let's make some things clear regarding my thoughts on this...

I will NEVER:
- Split Men faction into Gondor and Rohan!
Why?
> Cause that would give the EXACT same result that I want to AVOID by moving Goblins into Mordor! =p
Meaning?
> Gondor and Rohan are both factions of Men = they belong to a Men faction, not two!
> Goblins and Mordor are both factions of Orcs = they should be an Orc faction, not two!
(Isengard have Saruman's Uruk-hai so they differ enough to be interesting as an own faction!)
> Easterlings, Haradrims, Corsairs (and Dunlendings) are all Evil Men = they should be an Evil Men faction!

Off course, this is only my own logic talking, and naturally all can't agree with me. And that is why I made this thread, to find out what you others think about it. Don't waste TOO much energy on this though, cause IF this would ever be done, it will be FAR away. Maybe even after Sûl has finished his excellent work on SEE, which has so far been utterly fantastic =)

Edited by Nazgûl, 18 June 2007 - 03:39 AM.

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#44 Garrison Nomad

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 05:01 AM

But you're not taking into account that though they may be of the same people, they have very different styles of warfare. Just because two factions happen to be orcish doesn't mean that they're going to fight the same way. same with men. The way to divide the factions IMO is best defined by the location, allegiance, and style of play, rather than the contents. In concerns to allying the goblins with mordor, that really couldn't happen, since the goblins (at least during the hobbit) were not under Sauron's control (they didn't even sense the ring when Gollum had it, more or less Bilbo) and were on the opposite ends of middle-earth. If the goblins are to be dismantled, they should go to isengard. Mordor could get the spiders, since Cirith Ungol happens to be right next to an entire NEST of spiders who happen to be Shelob and her kin.

BTW just finished the hobbit. Man, the Battle of the Five Armies really defines the goblins' true style of warfare. In the battle they rely heavily on mass amounts of warg riders, sparratically attacking swordsmen, pikemen, and archers, and added support from Bolg's bodyguards, whow ere mostlikely mountain orcs. If Goblins get wolf riders, they should be in the first Teir and serve as basic infantry/cavalry in function.
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#45 IthronAiwendil

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 09:39 AM

I would rather improve the Goblin faction and make it more tolkienish... Too many mods (including WotE) already have the Evil Men faction...

#46 clonecommand

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 11:39 AM

....But its hard to find a good evil men faction in a mod I like (no offense, never played your evil men faction). I think that the way that the SEE is going, an evil men faction would come out rather amazing...

My biggest problem with putting Gobs in Mordor is that it would be a huge faction. If one faction is huge, shouldn't all the others be? *winkwink* And evil men would be a dinky faction with no value in playing.

I'm thinking that a good plan for this *addition* would be after the "final" release of SEE. Finish up the basic "make more like movie" theme, then have a little expansion pack with the new theme. Keep the SEE going, etc.

But what about Goblins until then.... (open ended response, not looking for a direct reply)

As this idea of moving evil faction won't happen for a long thime, why discuss something that...won't happen for a long time. I think this thread should be aptly renamed to something about changes for Goblins. Start and post 50 and work your way down. :xcahik_:

Notice how there has been over 50 replys in less than 24 hours?

Edited by clonecommand, 18 June 2007 - 11:40 AM.


#47 Juissi

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:11 PM

....But its hard to find a good evil men faction in a mod I like (no offense, never played your evil men faction). I think that the way that the SEE is going, an evil men faction would come out rather amazing...

Notice how there has been over 50 replys in less than 24 hours?

Well I think it would be quite hard to test Ithrons Evil Men faction as he hasnt released version with that faction yet :xcahik_: but anyway. I dont know how it would turn out that amazing because even though it would surely be good, no doubt on that, it cant be so much different from the other mods that include Evil Men

I would rather see maybe Dale as faction than Evil Men. It hasnt been done yet so it would be nice too see it in SEE :D

Yea its crazy how SEE topics get so many replies ^_^

#48 Lauri

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:21 PM

I change my mind alot...

and when cahik mentioned moria-gundabad, I say keep gobbos, make them better, and yeah.... you know the rest :D Less work, faster done, kinda the plan anyways ^_^ :xcahik_:

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#49 m@tt

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:03 PM

I would rather see maybe Dale as faction than Evil Men. It hasnt been done yet so it would be nice too see it in SEE :xcahik_:

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#50 Juissi

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 01:13 PM

:xcahik_: Didnt remember Visions. Well it would have been done less times than Evil Men anyway :D

#51 Nazgûl

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:40 PM

:xcahik_: ^_^ This thread is so funny... :D No matter how many times I state the same thing, it still gets burried under the same thing. And the most funny part is that the votes say differently? I guess they "Yes-sayers" don't say anything else, but the "Ney-sayers" do... :p

Anyway...

My biggest problem with putting Gobs in Mordor is that it would be a huge faction. If one faction is huge, shouldn't all the others be? *winkwink* And evil men would be a dinky faction with no value in playing.

> Once again... why??? Like I said three times; Mûmakil would go away... Easterllings would go away... Haradrim would go away... Corsairs would go away... ;) Goblins and Half-trolls would be added along with Giants. How would that differ so much from now? OR like GN said, I might consider giving the Goblins to Isengard since Isengard indded is closer to Moria... and Saruman had Orcs on his side in the movie... =p Besides MotW is still bigger than Mordor anyway (as a faction).

I dont know how it would turn out that amazing because even though it would surely be good, no doubt on that, it cant be so much different from the other mods that include Evil Men. I would rather see maybe Dale as faction than Evil Men. It hasnt been done yet so it would be nice too see it in SEE ;)

> I won't claim that it would be amazing to anyone but me :p The thing is though, that even if MANY mods have the same idea/solution to something, most mods differ VIDELY in gameplay basics and strategy and SEE is pretty alone on the Strategy before Rush-thinking for instance, but mainly in term of balance and such things. This meaning that even if different mods indeed do have the same ideas (like this one) they will still play differently =)
> Dale will never be a stand alone faction, cause they do not interest me. And talk about having trouble coming up with material for a whole faction (NO do not post ideas!) since they are not in the movie at all. I know the dwarves aren't either, but they do interest me and the "seed" is placed in the mines of Moria in the movie, so I love Dwarves as a faction. Dale will stay a "mini faction" of them...Coming up with units and heroes for Evil Men would NOT be a problem as we all know ;)


And oh yes... the reason for not keeping Goblins (in this theory/idea/thought of mine) is cause as far as I know the game does not allow more than 6 factions. RotWK do, but not BFME2. If it would, the problem would be solved I guess and all would be happy :p

And once more... Continue posting by all means, but don't forget what I said in post #1: this is only a thought, and even though I'm pretty sure I WILL do it eventually, this eventually will be so far away that this mod will basically be finished by then. This meaning that it will probably end up with two versions. One like this, and one without it. In say.... 1-2 years? =p

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#52 saumya

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:07 PM

If you are going to make an evil men faction please name it into Harad and not Evil men as evil men will also include men of dunland.
Harad could have units from umbar and khand and not from Rhun
Rhun should be in mordor as rhun willingly joined to the cause of mordor and they were not like the haradrim who were forcefully recruited by sauron and his minions

Edited by saumya, 18 June 2007 - 06:08 PM.


#53 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:16 PM

How do you know that? Both the Haradrim (+Corsairs) AND the Easterlings share a hatred for Gondor, either because of the expansionist politics of Gondor or for reasons regarding the line of Kings (The Kin-strife).

Plus: Sauron surely used not only persuasion but also more devious tools to force them to do his bidding. Either way, the dunlendings were basically too far away for his influence (unless you count Saruman as his puppet).

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#54 Uruk King

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:25 PM

You could always call them Men of the East, the opposite to Men of the West
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#55 Garrison Nomad

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 07:09 PM

I agree that Rhun should stay with mordor, and a new men faction should be harad, since that could include the corsairs as well.

Still, i'm in favor of the goblins, but ehre's an idea...why not tack rohan onto the elves? Have mithlonds, mirkwoods, those two new AWESOME elves you guys put in, and ents, then add in rohirrim, peasants, and yeomen? perhaps an archer overload, but hey, it's an idea.
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#56 clonecommand

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 07:46 PM

If anything like that were going to happen, it would be Elves in Rohan, not the other way.

#57 Gherrick

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:04 PM

I would prefer Rohan as a faction but oh well.
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#58 Uruk King

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:13 PM

@ clonecommand, Those words are BLASTHEMY!!! i like elves.

I'm in faor of Evil men in Alliance, besides Mordor has Minas Morgul. If any chage is to be made then the Goblins should have the Gundabad units.

Edited by Uruk King, 18 June 2007 - 08:14 PM.

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#59 clonecommand

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:55 PM

I mean as in elves aided Rohan, bot the other way around (ex. Helm's deep vets recruitable by Rohan).

#60 Garrison Nomad

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 09:12 PM

@ clonecommand, Those words are BLASTHEMY!!! i like elves.

I'm in faor of Evil men in Alliance, besides Mordor has Minas Morgul. If any chage is to be made then the Goblins should have the Gundabad units.


Well....Gundaband units would be just the biggest and baddest goblins you've ever seen, considering Gundaband was the capital. Here's an idea of what you'd see coming out of Mount Gundaband:

from The Hobbit

"There a host of wargs came ravening and with them came the bodyguard of Bolg, goblins of huge size with schimitars of steel."

Now that would be a serious gundaband unit, basically a huge muscular goblin with a giant sword. Would help out if half-trolls got kicked, or reduced to mountain orcs.

Edited by Garrison Nomad, 18 June 2007 - 09:12 PM.

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