1257 replies to this topic

[{IRS}Athos]

@ dojob: Thank you!

What does everyone else think of Madril?

[shadowfoxt]

ah im not too sure but if he will be much weaker should he cost 700 insted of 1000?

[{IP} Aridor]

Well the thing is that meleeing a troll is very very dumb idea. In game and in reality. You can't lay a hit on him with a sword. So unless you have a huge pike you best turn tail and run till you can whip out a bow and put some arrows through him. Heroes should be anti unit. Monsters anti hero. Unless you have some magic skill or are a range hero you are going to get pwned by a troll. This is reality. Them things are huge compared to a human. Only an amazing hero like Aragorn or Boromir would stand a chance, and they would survive by dodging and jumping around. Since the game engine stinks we can't do that. So we need to figure out an analog.

[{IRS}Athos]

@shadowfoxt: How about 800? It's a nicer number. *changed*

[Dalf32]

perhaps gandalf should be able to withstand the first blow from a troll without being knocked back. for this i would cite the battle twixt the grey wizard and his fiery nemesis. afterwards he would be knocked back like normal, but i think he, if anyone, should get at least a little distinction from the rest of the pack (of heros that is).

[dojob]

No, I think he should get knocked around like everyone else so people use him really wisely and perhaps he could start out at lvl3, 4, or 5 like he did in BFME1.

For every other hero, the knockback should stay the same except for maybe when certain powers like blademaster are active.

Edited by dojob, 21 January 2009 - 01:21 AM.

[shadowfoxt]

@shadowfoxt: How about 800? It's a nicer number. *changed*

ok its close enough just cant be over 1000 for sombody half as strong as faramair

[Devon]

Agreement with dojob.

[shadowfoxt]

No, I think he should get knocked around like everyone else so people use him really wisely and perhaps he could start out at lvl3, 4, or 5 like he did in BFME1.

For every other hero, the knockback should stay the same except for maybe when certain powers like blademaster are active.

Yes and no, he should start at lvl 1 still. Just like the others.

[Wanderer∞]

Along with Gandalf against trolls. Considering he is a wizard and has the aura shield around him i think it would be wise to say at least some of the attacks made on Gandalf wouldn't knock him back.

Only an amazing hero like Aragorn or Boromir would stand a chance, and they would survive by dodging and jumping around. Since the game engine stinks we can't do that. So we need to figure out an analog.

And yes, I agree 100%

Edited by Wanderer∞, 21 January 2009 - 01:41 AM.

[{IRS}Athos]

Still, they shouldn't get knocked down every time. Like AA IP'er said, otherwise the Balrog battle is, well, cheap.

[shadowfoxt]

You have a point but personally, i found the balrog more fun having to run around it afew times before attaking

[Berethin]

I can understand the heroes being knocked around by trolls and such, admitedly. The cave troll in Moria is a good example, as Yoda pointed out, and Aragorn wasn't exactly having an easy time with that one at the Black Gate. Of course, then again, Gandalf did kill one almost instantly at Minas-Tirith, when they had just come through the gate. I wonder if there's more of a middle ground that could be found, then?

Maybe I shouldn't get too hung up about how it would have gone in reality, though, because that's never going to achieve that in a game. After all, if it was reality, no one would survive a single blow from the balrog long enough to be sent flying through the air, let alone get up again afterwards. As far as the game goes, I'd like to see the heroes have a chance to stand up to these monsters, one on one, if possible.

I'll trust whatever your final desicion on monster vs. heroes is. You guys have done great on balance already!

[Scryer]

For every other hero, the knockback should stay the same except for maybe when certain powers like blademaster are active.

Mind if I share this opinion as well, Dojob ?

Madril- Cost: 800
Description: Recruit the ranger captain of Ithilien and Faramir's right-hand man.
Lv. 1- Faramir's Aide (Faramir and Madril gain 10% armor when near each other. Passive.)
Lv. 2- *Ranger Captain (+25% damage to nearby rangers. Passive.)
Lv. 4- Deadly Shot (High-damage ranged attack.)
Lv. 7- **Call for a Volley (wide-range Arrow Volley power, only within vision range)

One of the only things that has confused me with RJ-ROTWK is that Damrod was chosen over Madril as a hero. I guess that it could be because a lot of other mods use him but I still think that Madril would fit in the mod better. I think there's even more lore on him than Damrod, but I could be very wrong.. Anyways, I kind of like this idea.

You guys should know by now that I'm huge on a hero's purpose in the faction or in the campaign (if they're a campaign hero). So the reason why I have taken an unsure liking to this idea is because I'm not really sure whether or not this would inhibit or enhance Faramir's purpose, gameplay wise. I can see this idea enhancing Faramir's prupose because you could use him for his leadership purposes (meaning more melee/mounted combat) without having to worry about the Rangers/Archers not getting any bonuses. Plus you don't have to panick when you need to toggle Faramir's weapon when you need an extra powerful shot because you have Madril for that purpose. I definitely see Madril having the potential to reduce Faramir's role-strain, making Faramir more versatile. I always find that Faramir does have some role-strain because he is mountable and he has a decent leadership ability (making him useful to the melee units). And by versatile, I mean that you'll have the ranged units taken care of so that Faramir can support what is needed in battle at the moment instead of filling in the role as the only ranged hero.

At the same time, people mainly use Faramir for his Ranger capabilities . So this hero does take away from him in that aspect.

*Ranger Captain: How about a bonus to speed and vision for the rangers? It would be nice to see this leadership ability kind of match Damrod's current leadership; even if that means just giving a 10% boost to vision and speed. It seems like those bonuses would suit a Ranger captain well in battle.

**Call for a Volley: Unless this power has a faster recharge-timer than the Rangers' Arrow Volley abilities (which they gain at rank 2), then I think that this power needs another effect... My suggestion for this would be to change the regular arrows to fire-arrows causing the target area to ignite. <<But I'd only suggest that if the regular arrow volley doesn't have a faster recharge.

My final vote on Madril with this power set is: Yes to the campaign. It would be really nice to have another army in Ithilien because it could open up new options for the non/linear campaign missions. Especially for non-linear due to its flexibility.

And maybe to the Gondor faction for skirmish-use... I'm really unsure whether or not the suggested Madril will take away or enhance Faramir's role. My advice would be to have him in on one of the betas just to see if he's worth adding into the faction completely.

Edited by Scryer, 21 January 2009 - 06:29 AM.

[Berethin]

Hey… I had a question concerning my idea about switch the Fountain Guards in as the new elite unit for Gondor. (If you guys go with that, that is! ) Would there be the need for a new infantry unit to fill the gap? I’m just concerned that there’re still be enough heavy infantry to call upon for Gondor. (Of course, I’m working from the assumption that neither soldiers nor spearmen are heavy infantry, so correct me if I’m wrong.)

Maybe you could add in a double-handed swordsman unit, called the “Gondor Vanguards”! Sorry, couldn’t help but harp back to my original idea… Anyway, though, maybe something of the sort might be handy. Or would the Citadel Guards just fill that role, making their versatility all the more important?

And I agree that Madril would be a good addition, and might, as has been said, free Faramir for more of his unique versatility.

Concerning Faramir, I wondered if maybe his sword’s reload time could be all but removed while on foot, so that he fights with continual motion. That would speed his attacks enough to give a good reason for switching him to melee. When he has the bow he has range as an advantage, and while mounted he has speed and trample as an advantage, but currently his sword is not really even needed.

[{IRS}Athos]

@ Scryer: You bring up some good points. Here is the edited Madril:

Madril- Cost: 800
Description: Recruit the ranger captain of Ithilien and Faramir's right-hand man.
Lv. 1- Faramir's Aide (Faramir and Madril gain 10% armor when near each other. Passive.)
Lv. 2- Ranger Captain (+10% damage, attack speed, and vision to nearby rangers. Passive.)
Lv. 4- Deadly Shot (High-damage ranged attack.)
Lv. 7- Call for a Volley (wide-range Arrow Volley power, only within vision range, sets area on fire)

It would be a dream come true to have Madril in the mod, especially if they used my idea for him...

[Devon]

One of the only things that has confused me with RJ-ROTWK is that Damrod was chosen over Madril as a hero. I guess that it could be because a lot of other mods use him but I still think that Madril would fit in the mod better. I think there's even more lore on him than Damrod, but I could be very wrong.. Anyways, I kind of like this idea.

We used him because rotwk already had a working unit in worldbuilder.




I brought up several suggestions about Darmod to rob a while ago, and while he is definitely out of the main hereoes, there are a couple other options.

One is a structure hero from the outpost. A weakish unit, somewhat like a troll, he would be level 1 when recruited and not retain levels after death. We could add Madril here I guess, or just swap Damrod with Madril

Another is adding him to a ranger summon (which I think rob will keep, though I'm not sure ) he'd just come with the rangers and stick around while they last.

Or, we could just kill him I lean towards the structure hero idea for Damrod/Madril, Rob likes the summon a bit I think.

[{IRS}Athos]

Structure hero? Yes, but go slightly WotE and start him out at Lv. 5.

[{IP} Aridor]

Switch them.

[CIL]

I think it should be randomized save for Aragorn, Boromir, Celeborn and Galadriel. They were all known to be of rather tall stature and would weigh (especially in Aragorn and Boromir's case) a decent portion more than a normal warrior. Boromir would also likely tread around a full-fledged battlefield in a huge suit of armor, further adding to his resistance. Also, maybe giving Boromir some more leaderships (not passive) in addition to jacking his price up 400 resources (to 2000) would be wise. Faramir would, canonically, fill the roll of an early-game hero. Just be sure to keep Imrahil stronger than them both.