351 replies to this topic

[Vithar-133]

Well, most of this will be taken into account. As it is, most of what the elves had, like walls, will soon be utterly different from the Faction EA called 'Elves'...

[Gr1m]

Well, most of this will be taken into account. As it is, most of what the elves had, like walls, will soon be utterly different from the Faction EA called 'Elves'...

The EA Elves faction was pretty much the Galadhrim, albeit poorly represented and with some bad decisions from the original BFME carrying over, then with a few niche areas in the army covered by units that apparently originated from locations that in reality covered a much larger portion of Middle Earth than the Galadhrim ruled or ever influenced.

Plus, blonde Galadhrim, Noldor soldiers? Urgh...

Edited by Gr1m, 19 October 2008 - 11:55 AM.

[Vithar-133]

Most of this is already redone. Not sure if there is a public with the new elves yet, though.

[Dalf32]

there is not a public with the new elves yet.

lets remember that this is in the third age, when the influence and power of the elves was in decline; they were considerably weaker than in the first age. so taking this into account i am assuming that they would not be building as sturdily or as prolifically as they had previously.

[Gr1m]

there is not a public with the new elves yet.

lets remember that this is in the third age, when the influence and power of the elves was in decline; they were considerably weaker than in the first age. so taking this into account i am assuming that they would not be building as sturdily or as prolifically as they had previously.

While it's true that the might of the Elves was far less than that of the First Age, they were still quite the force to be reckoned with when they were forced into action. - evidenced by Galadriel and the Galadhrim casting down Dol Guldur after the fall of Sauron. Tolkien writes the Elves as passive members of the world in the Third Age, existing in, but being apart from the rest of Middle Earth, seperating themselves from the outside world. While I wouldn't say the Elves were in decline in their crafts, far less of these are seen in the world of Middle Earth as the Elves never affected anything beyond their borders, really.

Even when it comes to the main characters of LOTR, Legolas in the end effects and influences the world the least. Even Gimli ended up rebuilding the gates of Minas Tirith with mithril, and he discovered the Glittering Caves and brought many dwarves to live there.

[CIL]

Most of the Elves went to Valinor. If they wanted, they could have just gone to Middle-Earth, marched on Mordor, and destroyed Sauron. But they probably didn't see the point in fighting for man, and they also probably didn't want to have casualties of maybe... I'd reckon +10,000. And then there's the fact that Elves were sick of war, and that's the reason why they went to Valinor in the first place (mostly)

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 20 October 2008 - 02:38 AM.

[Gr1m]

Most of the Elves went to Valinor. If they wanted, they could have just gone to Middle-Earth, marched on Mordor, and destroyed Sauron. But they probably didn't see the point in fighting for man, and they also probably didn't want to have casualties of maybe... I'd reckon +10,000. And then there's the fact that Elves were sick of war, and that's the reason why they went to Valinor in the first place (mostly)

More likely they did not know of the events of Middle Earth, and anyway would not wish to leave the paradise of Valinor simply to fight and die for mortal Men whom they had never dealt with - it wasn't their fight.

Plus, I believe leaving Valinor to return to Middle Earth would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, after it was removed from the world after the fall of Numenor. Glorfindel's a bit of a special case, imo.

[CIL]

Didn't know what was going on in Middle-Earth!? Pah! There were hundreds, maybe even thousands of Elves going to Valinor. And why did Glorfindel and the Istari hop on over the sea? The Vala knew of Sauron and his machinations, and the Elves had several of the Palantirs, did they not? Besides, it couldn't have been more than a month-long journey. If I recall correctly, Elves don't even need to eat, although it does help them gain and retain energy. Maybe it's sleep... or both... but the point is that Elves could make the journey.

[Gr1m]

Didn't know what was going on in Middle-Earth!? Pah! There were hundreds, maybe even thousands of Elves going to Valinor. And why did Glorfindel and the Istari hop on over the sea? The Vala knew of Sauron and his machinations, and the Elves had several of the Palantirs, did they not? Besides, it couldn't have been more than a month-long journey. If I recall correctly, Elves don't even need to eat, although it does help them gain and retain energy. Maybe it's sleep... or both... but the point is that Elves could make the journey.

However, keep in mind the majority of Elves that left for Valinor came at the end of the First Age and the end of the Third Age - between those periods of times it would have been a few ships a year, depending on how long a swanship takes to build. The Istari were sent by the Valar themselves, who had a greater understanding of events beyond Valinor, and Glorfindel was a rare breed amongst the Elves in itself. Also, it stands to reason that many of the Elves could have believed that the Oath of Feanor could affect them still by leaving Valinor, and fear the doom Mandos placed upon those that had done so.

Of course, I could be reading into this a bit much, and it simply could be that a) the Valar simply didn't allow it, and noone since Feanor until Glorfindel had had the balls to argue against it, or b) they simply didn't want to leave paradise to fight for a people the majority of them had either never met, or never related to.

I'm not arguing the Elves couldn't make the journey if they had the will to, i'm just saying that few of them really would have wanted to.

[Vithar-133]

This really isn't the place for a discussion on lore, my friends.

Could Shikari or yoda move posts 205 to 209 to the discussion topic?

I believe this topic is meant for modding business, not a lore discussion.

[mike_]

One last thing... ... Gimli also helped amend the broken feelings between the Elder Races - by his love for Galadriel and friendship with Legolas, which is why Tolkein refers to him as he does.

[Fyro11]

^ Excellent insight into lore coupled with applicable common sense!

Thank you.

[Gr1m]

This really isn't the place for a discussion on lore, my friends.

Could Shikari or yoda move posts 205 to 209 to the discussion topic?

I believe this topic is meant for modding business, not a lore discussion.

True. Sorry about that.

To be honest, i'm quite curious how Elves will be handled in the next release. There are at least three major regions (Lothlorien, Mirkwood and Rivendell and the West) and two dominant Elven subraces (Noldor and Sindar, the Teleri of the Grey Havens under Cirdan aren't really major faction material) to be covered, so it'll be interesting how they all fall under the banner of a single faction. I'm visualising something similar to the way the Men of the East are currently handled,but that's just me.

[{IP} Aridor]

It is freakin' sweet.

[Vithar-133]

Similar, yet not even close to MotE, and almost certainly note even close to what any other mod does.

[Dalf32]

it will pretty much blow everyone's mind once it is complete. atm it is awesome, but it will get so much better!

[Devon]

Have you read elves are getting an overhaul? May just be me, but it seems like you don't really know what we're intending to do

[mike_]

If not, you need to

EDIT: Spelled "to" wrong >.>

Edited by mike_, 21 October 2008 - 11:46 PM.

[Elvenlord]

This really isn't the place for a discussion on lore, my friends.

Could Shikari or yoda move posts 205 to 209 to the discussion topic?

I believe this topic is meant for modding business, not a lore discussion.

True. Sorry about that.

To be honest, i'm quite curious how Elves will be handled in the next release. There are at least three major regions (Lothlorien, Mirkwood and Rivendell and the West) and two dominant Elven subraces (Noldor and Sindar, the Teleri of the Grey Havens under Cirdan aren't really major faction material) to be covered, so it'll be interesting how they all fall under the banner of a single faction. I'm visualising something similar to the way the Men of the East are currently handled,but that's just me.

The elves of Mirkwood and Lothlorien were mostly Silvan elves, neither Noldor nor Sindar, though ruled by one of these. Cirdan's Teleri is the very defination of Sindar
Sindar is simply those of the three kindreds that did not journey to Aman. All of them Teleri.
Sorry, had to say something. I can't let ignorance go by

[Gr1m]

The elves of Mirkwood and Lothlorien were mostly Silvan elves, neither Noldor nor Sindar, though ruled by one of these. Cirdan's Teleri is the very defination of Sindar
Sindar is simply those of the three kindreds that did not journey to Aman. All of them Teleri.
Sorry, had to say something. I can't let ignorance go by

Oops, my mistake regarding the actual name. I get a bit mixed up with them sometimes.

But Lothlorien is more balanced a mix of the two races after the fall of Eriador, imo - remember Galadriel and Celeborn once ruled there before relocating to Lothlorien, and after it's fall after Sauron revealed himself, a lot of the Noldor of that area fled there. By current standing in the Third Age, Lorien's a definate mix of both cultures.

And, to remain mildly on topic, what i've been told now regarding the Elves has made me quite impatient for the next release. Damn you all!

Edited by Gr1m, 22 October 2008 - 01:20 AM.