1712 replies to this topic

[Hasfusel]

No, there's no need, although good idea. I would certainly not object to Cardolan Spearmen, as basic peasant spear rabble. "Arnor Soldiers" relates to soldiers drawn from all of Arnor, not seperate provinces. Although Spearmen, being specialised, could come specifically from Cardolan.

My reason for not wanting Elrond or Glorfindel as Arnor heroes is that they're already in the Elven faction, duh. Just play with Elves and Arnor on the same team, don't merge them together. Círdan can be a unique Arnor hero because he didn't have a role in or around the time of the WotR, but helped massively around the time of Arnor's war against Angmar. So Elrond and Glorfindel stay where they are, while Círdan becomes Arnor's best hero. I've provided a template a while back. You don't need to make Arnor copies of Elrond or Glorfindel. The Elves were allies. Multiplayer matches often involve players playing against each other in teams, which means being allies. So rather than copying heroes becuase they worked together, if you want them in a Lore-specific Arnor/Angmar game, include Elves on the Arnor team, and Goblins with Angmar if you want it balanced out. Have I made this clear enough?

[Dalf32]

arguing that you can just ally with another faction that has that hero does not really work when we are talking about arnor and angmar because they are from a different time period. you might as well think of them as an entirely different mod because they do not crossover. therefore them already being in the elven faction has no bearing on whether or not they should be in the arnor faction.
to put it simply, that is a bad reason for getting rid of elrond and glorfindel.

[Ring o' Fate]

...And you need to actually play online on HAMACHI, Hasfusel. If you ACTUALLY went on, you would find out that Free-For-Alls are the majority of matches.

[Devon]

I'd say it's 50 50 actually. We usually only do FFAs when an odd number of people are on or people are being stubborn and can't come up with satisfactory teams.

[Ring o' Fate]

Which is most of the tme.

[Dalf32]

but the armies of the elves were disparate between the two periods. they are much further along in their departure by the time of the wotr and their intrafaction dynamics would have been different.

i dont see them as being the same faction, just the same race at a different time. they may share some heros between those two times, but that doesnt mean the rest was the same.

[{IRS}Athos]

arguing that you can just ally with another faction that has that hero does not really work when we are talking about arnor and angmar because they are from a different time period. you might as well think of them as an entirely different mod because they do not crossover. therefore them already being in the elven faction has no bearing on whether or not they should be in the arnor faction.
to put it simply, that is a bad reason for getting rid of elrond and glorfindel.

Actually, not at all. Since the Elves are technically immortal and all their heroes apart from maybe Arwen were alive (and active) during the Rise of the Witch-King, they fit in both time eras just as seamlessly. Elrond and Glorfindel are Elf heroes, not Arnor ones. As far as I'm concerned, that should be end of story.

Unfortunately, "as far as you're concerned" has nowhere near the amount of clout you think it does.

[Hasfusel]

I'm not saying it does, dumbass, I'm stating my opinion backed by a fairly decent argument. That Dalf says he "doesn't see them as being the same" isn't exactly the ultimate argument-crusher. My views are just as valid as yours, bucko.

[{IRS}Athos]

Oh dear, now he's calling me names.

The point is that more people agree with [not me] Dalf, and you refuse to accept that perhaps someone doesn't like your idea. Get off your high horse and help it out of the swamp, for heavens' sakes.

[Devon]

Ithilien, chill. You're doing the same thing you're accusing him of doing His opinion is just as legit as yours, and there's no reason he can't argue, even if he is outnumbered.

[{IRS}Athos]

I never said I wasn't a hypocrite...

However, I still maintain that I'm more civil. Take our conversation on Beorn, for instance...

BEORN IS DEAD.

WHO GIVES A F*CK.

Edited by ithilienranger732, 12 June 2009 - 09:41 PM.

[dojob]

We have 2 WKs that are different, so why not 2 elronds or 2 glordindels

[Excuse_me_princess]

We have 2 WKs that are different, so why not 2 elronds or 2 glordindels

Word!

We are running low on a lot of variety concerning heroes for Arnor.
As of now we have an archer, 3 warrior heroes and two battle mages.
By removing the elves, you are removing the battle mages, which will leave us with the warriors and the archer... all of which are more than overly represented in the game already.
Arnor is build up from scratch, which I truly respect and appreciate, don't forget it also gives you all the opportunity to totally style and create you're own force.
I'd say we keep the wide variety of heroes.

[{IRS}Athos]

Argeleb on a horse would help out in the early game, and make him more useful...

[Hasfusel]

Arnor is certainly lacking of a cavalry hero to lead my proposed Arnor Knights. I really can't stand the reused Knights of Dol Amroth for Arnor because they're far too strong, and I hope Arnor gets basic cavalry that can be upgraded into heavier stuff using either the vanilla upgrades or my Banner of Reunited Arnor idea, which I believed recieved good approval.
In my opinion Arveleg (I hope I don't get the names mixed up, I meant the weak one with only a couple of powers) or Arvedui could stand to ride a horse at higher levels. Argeleb is too much of a specialised hero to ride cavalry too, and plus you'd have to come up with a bunch of new animations and stuff for his cooler powers.

Proposed Arnor hero group, cheapest and weakest first-

Arveleg - cheap warrior leader hero like Boromir with a couple of battle abilities such as Weaponmaster and King's Favor
Captain Carthaen - powerful ranger hero with deadly speed and one or two useful abilities, although you really get him for the stats
Argeleb - powerful warrior leader with really neat powers (could switch places with Arvedui)
Arvedui - expanded to be Arnor's best warrior leader, with Rally abilities, Leadership and cavalry charge
Círdan - highly expensive elven hero with really powerful storm abilities and a lightning attack, plus leadership to the Elves

[{IRS}Athos]

Argeleb's the weak one. Arveleg's the awesome one with the palantir... y'know, the one in my avatar...

[Hasfusel]

Ohhhh okay. I like Arveleg then. He's a shiny boy.

May I mention that we have two witchkings because Angmar and Mordor are completely different in form and time and, Nazgul excepted, all their other heroes were alive at different times. All the WotR Elf heroes are carried on from RotWK Elves, with the possible exception of Arwen, I'm not sure when she was born. It would make sense to keep Glorfindel and Elrond where they are, with Arnor having its own unique elven hero.

One of my previous ideas, if it could be coded, was to make sure that only one of each hero could only be in play at the same time, even when you have two people playing as the same faction. That would also make it more possible to have regular heroes pasted into the inn without too much confusion.
If anyone likes this, it should be applied to Carthaen and Karsh, because they're technically the same person as you'll know if you've played the vanilla campaign, which I hope is somehow implemented into the mod alongside the BFMEII campaign. Or, you could make it so that Carthaen becomes Karsh if he dies from a Morgul Blade wound, the same as regular soldiers become wights if you kill them with Well of Souls or a morgul blade. It'd be a neat detail, although of course it isn't necessary.

Here's my final Círdan draft, to replace Elrond.

Círdan
Recruit the legendary shipwright and ancient master of the Grey Havens
Círdan has a good, heavy attack which is quite fast, and he moves with decent speed. He has good health as well, so he is suited to all-out melées, but he gets beaten by pikemen and large clumps of units because he generally does no splash damage.
Cost: 3350
Lvl.1: Sight of the Havens (fog of war and stealthed units temporarily revealed around Círdan in a massive radius)
Lvl.4: Lightning Blade (Círdan's attacks do double damage in a radius for a small amount of time, with Lightning effects and knockback)
Lvl.5: Call of the Ocean (blasts units with enchanted waters that slow them down, knock them back and do decent damage; area of effect like Wizard Blast)
Lvl.7: Healer's Hand (heals all nearby allied heroes and units by a good amount)
Lvl.10: Storm of the West (unleashes a fell wind-style attack over a very large radius, doing good damage, unlike the Angmar power which does barely any damage and in a medium radius)

[Dalf32]

limiting it to there only being one copy of a certain hero at a tiem on the battlefield would create huge imbalances as one player could just get a bunch of heros early and not let them die, thus crippling the opponent. also it may not be possible to implement.

[Excuse_me_princess]

Argeleb's the weak one. Arveleg's the awesome one with the palantir... y'know, the one in my avatar...

Can´t remember that santa hat being in game... did al palantirs have a funny hats?
I would give Saruman´s palantir a clowns hat

Edited by Excuse_me_princess, 28 June 2009 - 06:16 PM.