882 replies to this topic

[Scryer]

I agree with what Myrdin is saying about the Warg Pit (or whatever it's called). I think that it should be moved to the Goblins and not get replaced with anything because Isengard can hold its own without the extra wargs attacking enemies.

Regarding the new 25pp power, I agree with Yoda. It's somewhere to start.... I think that this idea is one of those ideas that needs to be tested before we make any final say on it. For the other 25pp power, I've changed my mind and I think that it should just be a regular avalanche with lightning that's there for effects (not damage). It's simple and it suits Isengard well. The power tree is going to have to be worked out to balance the powers on both sides because I know that players are going to choose "A New Power is Rising" over an Avalanche power in the game.

[Devon]

I don't think they'd necesarrily pick it...it really depends on your current game situation

[Funbomb]

Yoda has a good point. If you are going to die you would get avalanche so you can kill the units then start to build your own and if you have a good base and multiple units you would get the buff so you can take your enemy out easier.

[Myrdin]

well actually, what yoda says is true Scryer

but if i had to choose between awalanche and the explosive mine ability i would choose that, 100%

as for the warg sentry, i want to be replaced by SOMETHING, becouse i dont want isengard end up with only few buildings like goblins ( i hate the small building menu for goblins, i like many buildings even though some of them are only good for some situations ), soo i think it could be either, the guard barracks i was speaking about, or some new upgrade building, that could give some, economy, defense buffs
( for exampla :
Orthanc guard, places two respwanable uruk pikeman to each building,
Hardened arrows - wariation of forged blades for balistas,
Burning forges - each furnance produces +5 more resources, and the cost of FB for units is lowered by 10%-stucks with same kind of fortress add on, and maybe one more like
Industrial land - places a small tainted land around each building increasing the armor of units standing on it, by 20% )

well thats just the idea, i dont care what, but there MUST be a building replacement for the Warf sentry, for i dont want to end it with less buildings

[Shikari]

Why does the warg sentry have to go again?

[Scryer]

It is true what you guys are saying about the power tree. But I know that right-off-the-bat, I'd start spending my power points that lead up to "A New Power is Rising" rather than an Avalanche. You know, I probably shouldn't have even broguth that up because this is something that really depends on several variables..... And that will be all that I have to say on that.

[Devon]

It really depends on personal preference, like most other things.

[Myrdin]

Well actually, a would newer choose " normal " Awalanche to begin with, its weak and shitty, and if you all suggesting that the lighthing efect wont do any dmg after all, then why the hell should i even bother trying to get it

i think either Mine, or Stormcloud would be much better, and much more fun to play, than some tweaked awalanche with ligntining ( that doesnt even do dmg )

Edited by Myrdin, 07 April 2008 - 11:33 AM.

[Devon]

Like I said...personal preference. Avalanch is like sunflare, it does mass damage to a group of units and buildings in a set area. You may like that, or you may want something else.

[Myrdin]

look yoda, im not not bitching on Avalanche as it is, the efect is nice and all togather, but you guys forget that the spell was created for angmar, and as such it counts with some units, and other powers to make the full potiancional of it

fell wind + awalanche,
rogash leap, then avalanche on the disrupted units,
make your own units frozen ( with sorcerresrs ) and let enemy trying to kill them ( which they cant if frozen ) and then Avalanche

all of us could give at least one more example, The power was CRATED FOR ANGMAR, and it only pwns, if its used with ANGMAR game style, and strategy, units, and powers.

Isengard has no direct dmg power, nor anything suitable, that could create chain combo with Avalanche.

This is not just thing of personal taste, when i m playing angmar, i often go - fell wind, then one of two posibilities, then i summon giants and then avalanche ( for with other units, this combination can do a lot more if used corectly, then shade, though he is good for some other tactic features, )

i dont want to push you, but you must admit that at this point i m right as much as you dont like it, for i really think that all angmar powers should be ( and are created exclusive for ) Angmar, and a default Avalanche without some buff or bigger area of efect, is not good for isen ( even dragon strike as much as it doesnt suit Isen. is better, for he at last ignites the ground )

[Devon]

I doubt ea actually put that much thought into anything. If you want strategy using it as isen, you hit the enemy with a quick devastation then do avalanch right over them. Units get crippled for about 5 seconds, which is enough to anhiliate them.

[dojob]

True, but a mobile thunder cloud would be MUCH more interesting than a power that another faction already has.

[Rafv Nin IV]

The mobile thundercloud sounds like Galadriel's Tornado to me. How about a cloud over the entire map for thirty seconds or so, that continuously attacks random enemy forces/buildings?

[Funbomb]

Thirty seconds to me is long unless it's like 1 strike per second.

Also Yoda has a good point with devastation. I knew that it could stun but never really used it. I saw you use it in a replay with the wiz guy and dojob.

Myrdin, why would Angmar get Avalanche besides that it can blend well with its powers, has it been mentioned that it was used by Angmar. I just think EA gave it to them because they assumed they can do that since they live in snowy mountains. I also think they wanted the Angmar fortress to be similar to the Mordor fortress since they both have the Witch-King in command, like the final upgrade after the wall upgrade. The giant fire ball is like a molten lava rock but what is the ice ball like from Angmar. To me, EA just copied Angmar's final upgrade from Mordor except they made it ice since they live in mountains.

[Devon]

Scryer suggested a very good replacement power for angmar if isengard would get this...I think its in angmar thread.

[Scryer]

Scryer suggested a very good replacement power for angmar if isengard would get this...I think its in angmar thread.

True dat.

I know that it's kind of a bad idea to start an Angmar discussion on the Isengard thread. But the "power-swap" thing affects both factions. The one thing that I'm really afraid of with my replacement power, would be that it would get rid of Angmar's "weird curve". For those of you that have read my posts about Angmar before, you would know what I'm talking about. Anyways, here's what I posted:


In the Isengard thread, we've been discussing about giving Isengard Angmar's 25pp Avalanche power. If that were to happen, then I am going to suggest that we replace it with a Blizzard power instead. It could work like this:

-It would have a large casting targeted-area.
-It would start out like Angmar's Wind power but then it would build up and blow away more units. It would give out ice damage (or whatever kind of damage the Ice Arrows give out) and there would be lots of snow effects.
-It would cause pretty decent damage to buildings but it would be more of a unit killer than anything.
-After it has finished, if there are any units still alive in the center of the targeted area, they would become immobile. This would be equivalent to the Sorcerer's spell that causes units to become immobile.

Hahaha, notice how most of my power suggestions end up starting out like Fell Wind?

Edited by Scryer, 08 April 2008 - 12:46 AM.

[Myrdin]

NO REALLY ?! lol . . . ok a bit sacrasm to start with, soo - I know that Mordor and Angmar have the same ulti, i think even the biggest id**t would understand that. I dont really understand what you mean, for from 1/2 you are speaking about fortress upgade, not power, why the hell did you start speaking about 25pp, and then you swap to fortres, . . . .

I dont really get this line either - it would get rid of Angmar's "weird curve"

what you mean by the weir curve, that just a secret for me.

YodaWarrior Posted Yesterday, 09:53 PM
I doubt ea actually put that much thought into anything. If you want strategy using it as isen, you hit the enemy with a quick devastation then do avalanch right over them. Units get crippled for about 5 seconds, which is enough to anhiliate them.

that s true, combined with devastattion it could be good, but it still has small AoE. btw the line about EA is pretty true ( so sad though, dont you think ? )

I dont mind to get 25pp, Avalanche, but it NEEDS to be buffed if yea ( not just some faggot lightning of 0 dmg )
BUT i dont get it : the idea you came up ( and i just pimped it a bit ), with the explosive mine was much MUCH better, and suited the Industrial Isengard much more ( for its most powerfull weapon, getting shown up into fear creating palantir power . . . sounds too good to ignore it ).

Really, i dont get it


and the moving stormcloud that dojob suggested as sarumans power, and i advanced it and suggested as 25pp, aint that bad either ( and yeh, it would be like galadriel tornade, that the base script it would propably have, just new model, and some attack changed ), at least their both original NON EA, ideas that could surprisse the Rj players.

Edited by Myrdin, 08 April 2008 - 01:32 PM.

[myster]

Myrdin you -again- are acting pretty hostile to someone who is just reacting to what you said. You said that the avalanche thingy was purely created for angmar. Funbomb tried to prove his point about EA not really thinking trough Angmar completly wich blatently shows in the similarities it has with mordor.

anyway how i think about it:

- the avalanche power for isengard + Blizzard power for Angmar(tho these could be swapped either way
- Rise of a new power sounds good but requires alot of balancing
- the whole bomb thing is a bit too much imo.. Isengard never used Alot of bombs, and summoning sevoral bombs wich would explode would be overklll imo..
- The moving stormcloud sounds good but i dont think it should be using galadriels tornado as base.. its such a basic thingy that it would look too weak for a 25pp power..

Edited by myster, 08 April 2008 - 02:20 PM.

[Puppeteer]

They only used the explosive mine once, at Helms Deep (to my knowledge) yet most mods now seem to want to give Isengard all these destructive explosive powers, upgrades and units, which really don't seem much to do with Isengard. True though, that the same EA did with elves and the flood of the Brunine. That is why I'm not in favour of the mine power, as Isengard only used the mine once which was carried by a crew.
A moveable lightning cloud sounds good, I've never heard of another mod doing it and as someone said Saruman caused the avalanches using lightning (right?).

Edited by Puppeteer, 08 April 2008 - 04:14 PM.

[Myrdin]

They only used the explosive mine once, at Helms Deep (to my knowledge) yet most mods now seem to want to give Isengard all these destructive explosive powers, upgrades and units, which really don't seem much to do with Isengard. True though, that the same EA did with elves and the flood of the Brunine. That is why I'm not in favour of the mine power, as Isengard only used the mine once which was carried by a crew.
A moveable lightning cloud sounds good, I've never heard of another mod doing it and as someone said Saruman caused the avalanches using lightning (right?).

right

and i didnt mention, they use mines much, i said : " its most powerfull weapon " ( cut from my own post to be 100% correct in this ) that Isengard has.

myster, THIS time there was no hostility in the post ( not in the one you pointing at ), small sacracs to begin with was just to start the post, and as much you could wish for it ( maybe ), there was no hostile effection in the whole post. for if i want be hostile - Ill be hostile soo much that it drops from the words ( you could already see a taste of that ), soo compared to this post there is no hostality ( and when im, the writer of the post saing that then it must be true, coz if i want be hostile il be and say it immediatly )

now, i want you to describe this more properly ( this is not order, im just asking you if you could )
you wrote " - The moving stormcloud sounds good but i dont think it should be using galadriels tornado as base.. its such a basic thingy that it would look too weak for a 25pp power. "
i kinda dont get it, galadriel tornado is pretty strong ( not vs fortress ), but still . . . . and if i didnt say it before i say it now - even if it would be based on it, oc course the dmg would be change ( and propable tho whole thing, i think only the summon part would be let as it is ) . . . ( hmm a said something like this already ), soo theres no need to be worried that its weak, as i described some posts ago, it would be dealing 2 kind of dmg ( random lighting, in the area under cloud - same dmg as W.tower, and then after timer runs out - powerfull dmg onto the ground under cloud - based on avalanche, but a bit weaker )
The strenght of the cloud is - it can move ( soo simple, and yet it sounds soo good ), soo if you cast the spell, and all units run out of there, you just move it to better place, and after the finishing few secs, ( all the time lighting raining ) it explodes dealing huge dmg. Its a dmg power, and yet still its a summoning power. soo two in one
its like Shade of the Wolf - when he gets summon, the ice shard in which is he dwelling explodes for ( vs units ) high amount of dmg, then the wolf roams free. ( Its the same with Stormcloud - but reversed, unlike shade, when summoned, but when DISPATCHED, soo same concept but reversed, all others depends on your cunning if you are able to manouver with the cloud good, soo you can be glad to get this power instead - if done - A new power rising )

Edited by Myrdin, 08 April 2008 - 04:35 PM.