662 replies to this topic

[Scryer]

Anyways, Donald want to elaborate on your idea of a necromancer unit? Like how would it differ from a sorcerer unit? I kind of would like to see something along the lines of "resurrecting dead units" but that idea of mine wouldn't turn out right. Or it would be hell to code.

Maybe we should continue this discussion on the Angmar thread? I think that this discussion would fit there better... Can you guys tell I love organization ?

Edited by Scryer, 12 July 2008 - 12:36 AM.

[Puppeteer]

Great suggestion Scryer, continue it over there. It's an interesting point that Donald makes.
You feel good now, Crazy?

[Linas]

Helm's Deep is too hard i think. I played it and i lost battle in first 10 minutes. I think need more time to prepare for battle.

And what is mission preview in campaigns? Will we see campaign?

[CIL]

Here's what I do. I build some farms behind the Deeping Wall, get all the resources lying around, and spam Yeoman and Elves as well as making sure I have several cavalry as well (I like to have everything FU, especially fire arrows as they decimate rams). Have your cavalry go out and destroy balistas (or if they get close enough, have Legolas, Haldir, or the archers kill them). You should also play Eomer's Westfold mission if you wish to recieve reinforcements. However, you can also choose from Dwarven or Elvish reinforcements if you wait a few turns and do nothing. And about holding the deeping wall... Have a mixture of both Elves AND Yeoman. Make sure to build heroic statues and wells behind the deeping walls to buff your troops and heal them so they don't die as quick.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 15 July 2008 - 06:49 PM.

[Dalf32]

dont forget to use gimli, aragorn, and boromir! i normally post them just outside the deeping wall to destroy ladders and ballistas. and keep watch over the causeway; i usually put all of the mounted heros up there to take out rams and ballistas that go after the gate. if you can hold all this until your wall gets blown up (if it does) then you can retreat to the keep and it will be easier to hold or if you can continue to keep the uruks out of helms deep go for that. its a very challenging battle, but just try to hold on long enough for reinforcements and then decimate their bases with those

[Scryer]

I can never keep my god darn wall from being blown up ! I'm always looking and micro-managing in the Hornburg...

Personally I basically do everything that Dalf does except when I want a book/film restricted battle. I also put Legolas on the walls and I mount Gamling (because he's only ranged when he's mounted) above the Hornburg gates just to give the Horburg walls a hero.

I've never built a postern gate because my units act stupid and want attack everything in front of Helm's Deep.

Keep in mind that from the latest public release, your peasants can no longer repair your gate. So when you get some time to "breath", repair your gates.

Siege Rams are a little OP against arrows at the moment. So I can understand where you're comming from here..

To prevent your wall from being blown up keep an eye on the mine units and kill them a.s.a.p. If they get too close to your walls and one of your archers have fire-arrows, it has a good chance of taking out a good section of your wall.

If the Deeping Wall gets blown up (which usually happens to me...) I usually just retreat all of my Elves from there into the Hornburg. I always keep Boromir, Aragorn, and Gimli at the section where the Hornburg courtyard connects to the Deeping Wall, so that they can pick off lots of units and possibly grow a level.

Concerning Upgrades: Fire Arrows and Heavy Armour is your best bet. So get an armoury right away so you can start upgrading it. Don't even worry about banners or forged blades because they're pretty much useless in this battle unless you're doing a "Last-Stand" and you need swordsmen.

And that's all I can think of .

[Devon]

Bleh, I go by the books/movies IE, no units outside of the fort, etc...sometimes I even let them blow up the wall for fun, I just fight them back

If you see a mine deployed and zerker coming, don't bother taking them out, you likely won't. Instead, I just clear off the walls around them so I don't lose any units. You then have two groups of archers pounding units coming through the game at both sides. Against towers, use aragorn, boromir, and gimli on top of the deeping wall to take them out. I don't worry too much about ballistas tbh...they don't seem to bother me much.

[CIL]

That's fun and easy to do. Funnest on medium. Anyways, with regards to the berserker and mines... have a few fire arrow batallions on the Deeping Wall and plenty defending the gates of the Hornburg. They will decimate the rams and balistas stupid enough to move up to the wall to hit targets (most likely unit-producing buildings) in the upper part of the Hornburg. And the mounted heroes reminded me of something: Hama. He died at Helm's Deep, not defending the Rohirric people from wargs. Back to the point of the fire arrows on the deeping wall... Watch around the culvert (several batallions' length away) for mines. Have the fire arrows destroy them before they come too close. They will destroy decent chunks of your enemy's army if you destroy them at the right time.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 16 July 2008 - 12:55 PM.

[LadyRhiea]

Helmsdeep is pretty hard, but after one try I got by it. A really hard mission I think, is Isengard. By the time I realized that I had an ent moot, it was down. The uruk-hai just swarms the ents way too quickly :/, though the map design is SUPER awesome, way better than the original.

[Scryer]

Helmsdeep is pretty hard, but after one try I got by it. A really hard mission I think, is Isengard. By the time I realized that I had an ent moot, it was down. The uruk-hai just swarms the ents way too quickly :/, though the map design is SUPER awesome, way better than the original.

Yay I'm not the only one anymore !

But did you manage to beat it after your next try at it, Rhiea?

[Devon]

It might be te difficulty you guys have set it at While it doesn't affect the ai's scripting on any maps, it does affec their aggresiveneess, thanks to ea (I think). So isengard might be troublesome if you have it on one of the aggressive difficulties. Usually for me they just send a couple troops out to clear lairs and keep the main army inside while upgrading it with stuff.

[Scryer]

I played it on medium because I am such a terrible player. If everyone else that has had this problem only with the medium difficulty, then that would be the problem (obviously) . Can you tell that EA loved us when they programmed the AI ?

Edited by Scryer, 20 July 2008 - 12:28 AM.

[CIL]

I know. I love E.A. and their horrid skins, glitches, and destabilization of the balance system. We all do. If we didn't, we would be making a mod or talking about one right now .

[Puppeteer]

What a crazy notion that would be, CIL...
I play most things on medium

[Dre@mer]

I know. I love E.A. and their horrid skins, glitches, and destabilization of the balance system. We all do. If we didn't, we would be making a mod or talking about one right now .

Come on, they're not that bad. If they were no-one would mod these games.

[CIL]

The BfME I skins were better than BfME II and RotWK. The worst skin, in my opinion, was the Isildur skin. You can't even make out anything on the armor.

[mike_]

Because it was only supposed to be used for about five seconds in a cinematic

[Dre@mer]

The BfME I skins were better than BfME II and RotWK. The worst skin, in my opinion, was the Isildur skin. You can't even make out anything on the armor.

I disagree, BFME II skins are much more sharper. Besides, the Isildur skin is from BFME I.

[CIL]

True, but in the cinematic, it was super high detail. Let me just put it this way. E.A. put almost no effort into the game. They could have made the graphics look almost as nice as The Sims 2 if they wanted. Human-like. They chose not to make anything look that fantastic.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 23 July 2008 - 06:10 PM.

[Scryer]

TS2 is a completely different game though with different focuses, goals, and gameplay. I don't think that graphics like those would suit this game very well because it have us (the players) expecting different faces for every orc.

I think that the current graphics suit the mod well. Although there are some skins that I don't like (like Isengard's M.H.H), in the end I think that no other kind of high-detailed graphics would have suited the game better because there are so many units and buildings. And there will be even more when this mod is finished. If you want better graphics, set it on "high".

This isn't the place to discuss this though.

What I'm about to say might not be the best place to discuss this either. But I was wondering if there were going to be any capital cities for Rhun and Harad? I think that there needs to be capital cities for them in WOTR for the mode where you take over their capital to win. Plus it could make some of the missions in MOTE a little more challenging. Here's an idea that I've been tossing around in my head:

When you're hiring Harad (I'm assuming that you'd be in Far Harad), you'd start out with a Mordor army (I'm thinking either the WK's, Gothmog's, or the MOS's army -I'll explain this later) and you'd have an Inn with a Harad allegiance purchase. Basically with your Mordor army, you'd 'hire' essentially the Haradrim through the Inn. But the Inn can't gain a rank until you destroy one of the Haradrim camps that doesn't want to submit to your rule. Some camps will submit to your rule just because you have a force there (something like this was done in the ROTWK campaign with the Rhudaur mission). Other camps, you'll have to destroy.

After you destroy 5 camps (to gain access to a rank 5 Inn), you gain access to build Harad's leader-hero (I think that it's the Mumakil mounted one..). Once you build him, you gain access to the capital city. The capital city would basically consist of walls bordering it. I would like to see walkable walls but that's just me. Inside the capital city there are a couple of FU/regular archers, more soldier and spearmen (some FU), a couple of horse-riders, the serpent guards, quite a few farms, an armoury, a stables, a barracks, and a Mumakil Pen.

A timer starts before the rebellious Haradrim attack the capital city (because they don't want to submit to Sauron's rule). And guess what? You have to build an army and fend off the attack.

Yes, I do know that this does go against the lore (for the most part). But there has to be some fighting in order for heroes/units to gain ranks and for there to be a reason to build up a force. And I don't think that Gondor would be in Far Harad to begin with at this time. I think thatthere needs to be some fighting (rather than just hiring/buying out the Haradrim, like it say's in te Lore) because I think that with Harad, you'd need to build up a force as quickly as possible before MT. In my opinion it doesn't look like there are going to be a lot of Harad missions before the big battle so having a good force to start out with for the other missions could save you units and help you build up more. Gameplay-wise, I think that this works.

The reason that I don't want this mission on the Near Harad map is because I think that the Haradrim would keep their capital city down south more and away from Gondor since they didn't travel that far.

Now onto your starting army.. I have a little Dilemma with this. The possible heroes and their armies that you can start with are the Mouth of Sauron, The Witchking, or Gothmog:

The Mouth of Sauron: The reason that this guy is a possibility is because he was the messenger of Sauron, therefore it makes the most sense to have him doing buisness in Harad. My only problem with him is that with Khamul being a part of MOTE, he can't be in Dol Guldor. And unless there are tons of Inns in Dol Guldor (so that you can purchase a Mordor allegiance) or unless you get Mordor builders, you're going to have a MOTE army in Dol Guldor,which doesn't make much sense to me. Same thing with Ji Indur.

To solve the Dol Guldor problem you can either not have a hero there. But that would prevent the Mordor player from attacking the Mirkwood Elves. You could also have a Ringwraith there but I believe that people will want to see the 9 togethor, therefore it would make things harder and it would delay your attacks on Mirkwood if there were Ringwraiths in Dol Guldor. Plus it doesn't make much sense lore-wise.

My last solution to the Dol-Guldor problem is to have the Mouth of Sauron there. It makes enough sense for me, lore-wise. You can build a Mordor army there and lastly you can attack the realm of Mirkwood simultaneously while attacking the Dwarves (with Rhun), Gondor (with Harad and Mordor), Rohan (with Isengard), and the Elves/Arnor realms (with the Goblins).

Gothmog/Witchking: Having one/both of their armies in Far Harad makes sense because they were higher-ranked in Mordor's armies so I would think that Sauron would trust them with this kind of mission. They also are located nearby. Out of all of the hero armies in Far Harad, this makes the least-sense lore-wise. The only things that I like about having them in Far Harad is that they would gain ranks . Keep in mind, people, that these are just possible hero/army scenarios.

Some problems with this is that you'd probably need to go through Ithilien to get to Far Harad (and I know that people would want to do the Ithilien missions with Harad). And the WK was basically stationed in Minas Morgul after he returned from the river incident. So that doesn't make sense. Lastly, I believe that Gothmog did quite a bit of fighting in the west from Minas Morgul. Lastly having either of these guys in Far Harad would probably cause them to lose more units than anything because you'd need some room to create Haradrim units.

The last possible heroes that could lead an army that would hire Harad, would be either Ji Indur (I hope i got his name right.. Kind of want him on a fell-beast too..) or Khamul. They would make sense for why Sauron would trust someone of a higher-rank to hire Harad. Plus they belong to MOTE so you'd maximize your population for MOTE instead of having a couple of orc units taking up space. They'd gain ranks, which is a good thing . And they would kind of make sense (lore-wise) because they both were once Men that came from those regions.

I know that this was a lot to take in. But I just kind of need to explode some of my ideas off . <that didn't make sense, but I hope you got the gist of it.