662 replies to this topic

[Scryer]

C.I.L I completely agree with you for Rhun and Harad (minus the cities part, they did build stone cities that survived the environment... think Las Vegas ).

Maybe we need a map to determine what kind geography Khand looks like it has? (<Grammar!) I can see why it would be a land use for farming but at the same time it's bordered by hot desert/dry regions and climates. And it's also bordered by a heavy mountain region with a volcano. I don't see how we can ignore that considering that Khand is right in the middle of it all. I can understand why we would want a different environment for the campaign but it doesn't make sense have agriculturally rich land in the middle of two deserts and a volcano.

I don't believe that all of Khand was completely covered in ash and constantly in rough shape. I do believe that there was land used for ranching and whatnot but I think that that kind of land was located in the eastern half of Khand (that we don't get to see on most maps) because of Mordor. I'm using this map as a reference:

http://www.nwa.org.a...figures/map.jpg

Keep in mind that different maps of middle-earth shift Khand's location around a little bit.

Before I go on, where does it say that Khand fed the armies of Mordor?

The challenge for jimmy is going to be able to summarize Khand in one map. To be honest, I trust him with this challenge (no pressure ) and I won't complain once it's done.

Instead, I think there ought to be perhaps an initial fight against natives, and then when you win, a timer starts. You have until the time is up to complete multiple base and army building objectives, as well as making a force that you like. Of course, the timer wouldn't be long, so it'd actually be a challenge to get resources and build structures/troops before time expired.

We kind of skipped over this... I like this idea a lot. I would like to see this implemented in a couple of missions like Isengard's first mission, maybe Dunharrow for Rohan (?), and I'd like to see this done to Minas Morgul. If it's codeable, I think that it should be given consideration.

Edited by Scryer, 24 July 2008 - 09:30 PM.

[Dalf32]

@ravnin: if he is in fact suggesting that we start the campaign in the shire rather than in moria i wonder what mission(s) we could have. the only thing i can think of that would make sense would basically be hobbits running away from nazgul and hobbits + aragorn running away from nazgul.
thingamagig, if you have any ideas, id be interested in hearing them...

i would think that khand would be a svannah type of environment. similar to parts of africa, there would be few trees with the ground covered in tan-ish grasses and almost no other vegetation (i.e. bushes).

[Rafv Nin IV]

The building stuff type of mission should be easily codeable. In the BFME 2 tutorial mission, I'm pretty sure you have objectives like "build a barracks/farms/seige works/etc." And I think there're missions in the campaign that require you to build certain amounts of certain troops. All that would be required is that you put a whole bunch of these as mission requirements, as well as optional objectives to get more resources like destroying creep lairs and capturing outposts.

The main problem would be finding a timeframe that would be challenging, and yet still possible. 'Cause it wouldn't do any good to have an unbeatable mission in the campaign

Edited by Ravnin IV, 25 July 2008 - 12:32 AM.

[CIL]

Nobody ever said all of Rhun was barren. In fact, you actually contradicted yourself in agreeing with me and then going off to say that Khand is in between 2 deserts. Some parts, maybe, but I don't think that it matters. But I think Dalf got it right. There would be a rainy season and then a dry season like decent amounts of Africa. Just without the poverty.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 25 July 2008 - 01:10 AM.

[Scryer]

Nobody ever said all of Rhun was barren. In fact, you actually contradicted yourself in agreeing with me and then going off to say that Khand is in between 2 deserts. Some parts, maybe, but I don't think that it matters. But I think Dalf got it right. There would be a rainy season and then a dry season like decent amounts of Africa. Just without the poverty.

I could go on saying that the parts of Rhun that bordered Khand would be sandy because those outhern regions aren't near the sea of Rhun. But now this is getting pointless.

I never said that Rhun was barren, so I don't know where you got that idea from. If anything I mentioned that it was sandy and possibly desert-like in areas away from the sea of Rhun. And you said:

Rhun- Partly wasteland and barren desert, however the parts on the coast are lush and beautiful,

I know that I have been focusing most of my discussion based on the desert parts of Rhun (which I'm assuming would be in areas outside of the Sea of Rhun and near Khand). So I don't know how I contradicted myself . I'm curious as to how a rainy and a dry season would be included though.

This doesn't matter, let's move on.

Rav: If it can be done and included properly then I'm all for it .
I think that a good dilemma people will run into (with a challenging timeframe) would be choosing whether they want to upgrade their units or maximize the pop cap.

Edited by Scryer, 25 July 2008 - 02:13 AM.

[BMWteen]

i think it would be cool to have a khand base which u have to protect from wild/gobblins (like in bfme1 in the good campain at some point u have to protect a gondor base) and if defended u get the units garding the base and the buildings (asuming there r khand buildings...)

this is just an idea and yoda before u say it i know its all up to jimmy

[Ouranos]

Concenring the shire it would be better to finish the good ccampain with a scouring of the Shire mission rather than start it there. You could however start the campain in amon sul rather than moria

[BMWteen]

i thought it was going to start in the LA then work its way up

OT there no u in oranos...

[Ouranos]

The Last alliance war lasted for over 7 years and was a bigger war than the war of the ring so starting by it would be strange
And in french there is a u in Ouranos

[Puppeteer]

I see...

agriculturally rich land in the middle of two deserts and a volcano.

Volcanic soil is often rich and fertile, and the land is then used for farming. eg. Mt. Vesuvius. But this could be different.

[Imperio]

And I decided to register
I'll be here more often now, I guess

[Allathar]

Welcome The reason why you can't play it yet is because it isn't finished yet

About Khand: it's stated somewhere in RotK books, when Frodo and Sam were very hungry and thirsty and wondering how Sauron fed all his armies, that 'they didn't know about the farmland around the Sea of Nûrnen on which countless slaves worked to feed the Dark Lord's Armies'. Also, Aragorn gives the land of Mordor to the slaves who worked on the farms when he is king.

And why should Khand be desert and dry because it's near a vulcano? Ithilien is nearer to Mt. Doom than Khand, yet it's full of trees! Agreed with Puppeteer.

Also, imo, the most part of Rhûn shouldn't be desert. It lies around a sea, the Sea of Rhun, remember? Also, on the Tolkien ME map, there's trees drawn near the Sea of Rhûn.

[Rafv Nin IV]

Imperio: If you're talking about the RJ-WOTR campaign, then you need to make sure that your starting team is Gondor and you ought to be able to play what has been done so far.

Scryer: Hopefully (if it's implemented) the timeline will be short enough that people have to choose...or only get one partway done. It'd stress economic strategy over tactics, which I don't think is done many times in this game.

Anyone else have input on that idea?

[Scryer]

Allathar and Puppeteer, thanks for information. I absolutely don't remember anything being said about Khand in the books .

The whole thing about Khand being covered in ash and not Ithilien; I was relating the winds of our world (they blow from west to east) to Middle-Earth.

For Rhun, there's been some confusion as to what I've been saying. I wouldn't say that the map would be entirely/mostly covered in desert, just some small parts. I guess I put a lot of focus into it that it sounds like I'm talking about Rhun like it is mostly a desert-area. My point, again, is that the part of Rhun near Khand, would be desert-like because those southern parts of Rhun are not near any water.

[Rafv Nin IV]

Actually, the predominant wind direction of our world depends on latitude, e.g. temperate regions flow the opposite way of their polar and tropic counterparts. At the equator are the doldrums, where there are no strong predominate winds.

But that has nothing to do with Middle Earth.

[Scryer]

Hahaha, let's just trust the mappers with the MOTTE maps . I know next to nothing about wind directions of our world (which is a shame). I don't think that this argument is going anywhere besides OT..

Anyways, Ravnin I do think that having your idea (the one with economic/army building objectives) implemented ina couple of missions would keep a fresh-feel to the RJ campaigns.

Edited by Scryer, 26 July 2008 - 02:38 AM.

[mike_]

Not exactly what I'd call detailed..

[CIL]

I agree... if it was a little more vivid along the lines of color, THEN it would be usefull.