383 replies to this topic

[SovietSoldier]

Mordor I think is overpowered because I think that their Nazgul are a little too strong.I mean I do not know how,but somehow 1 Nazgul Kills Elrond?And that was not WK.

[Lt Commander Chris]

I'll post in here since you asked, Nazgul. With my pesky balancing changes and my constant testing (yes I am trying to help, in reality ) some things that need changing about Moria; some you may know, some maybe not:

A) Grond
Wow I like these, but to be honest they are often out of place on normal maps, and yet they come... Basically I acknowledge their mightiness and that their scale matters, but there are some problems. If they are going to be used in normal maps, which is fine, all walls need to be bigger. Right now its mouth sits somewhere in the air above them. What's more, they really do have too much health. Yes they should be hard to kill, but not THAT hard.

Suggestions:
Lower their health. Yes they should be tough but it's seriously too much!
Make them harder to acquire. I kill one and before long its back, very fast. Higher price, higher build time!

Post Scriptum to A):

I really do think that you'd do well by making all the generic walls bigger. Proportionally, mind, fatter and taller. Not only would it look better and play better, it'd make the scale of units and siege weapons right.

B) General units
Well, orcs suck, don't they? But don't get me wrong, they SHOULD suck. Their troops are small, quite weak and pathetically trained, BUT they have strength in overwhelming numbers, concealment in rocky and barren terrain and speed. Unfortunately, their weaknesses have been attended to, but not their strengths... Their current weakness is fine and canonical to the films, but to make it right:

Suggestions:
Keep their low health & armour and relatively low damage
Increase horde size OR (preferably) decrease build time and CP cost.

Post Scriptum to B):

I know you have not yet fully decided build times, but have many of them high for realism and gameplay, but on my suggestion for B) I would justify this; orcs (and goblins) advantage lies in speed and most importantly, numbers. They should be able to churn out many inferior and fodder-like infantry to match the fewer men, and even fewer elves, though they can be matched by the strength, equipment and skill of the latter, it relies on the player to be good - as in any game.

C) Mumakil
Great job on these, only a few problems, and some positive suggestions. They, like the Grond, are still a little bit too hard to kill. Their devastation against basically any melee unit is ok, but its armour and health are quite wrong. Even with dozens of wall-mounted trebuchets and archers going at it (and an eagle, come to think of it) it still takes far too long. Other thing is its crew, which I'll suggest about below.

Suggestions:
Decrease health/armour, OR, if you believe that it should be stupidly tough, make sure that most factions have some sort of unit(s) which, if used correctly, are effective against mumakil; think to the films of Ithilien rangers causing them to riot etc.
Increase the amount of haradrim etc. which can occupy it! It should be able to carry a decent amount of men on its back who can cause some serious damage. Yes I'm asking for more damage, but it'd be right!

Thanks

Chris

[Nazgûl]

Thanks, I'll definitely consider these ideas when I get to that phase =)

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

I have a few suggestions...

1. Could we make the Mumakil's Red markings a seperate upgrade called 'War Paint'? The upgrade could maybe provide a morale boost (attack, defence, speed, experience bonus etc.) to nearby ally units (haradrim).
That way, it would be really varied. War Gear for increased defnce/attack and the War Paint for the red markings to give boosts to allies.

2. Also, could the new Royal Black Mumakil be slightly bigger than the other mumaks? That, and would it be possible to have the chain around its tusks to grind down the opponent's troops like in ROTK? That would be awesome if only the Royal Black mumak had the chain.

3. Could we make models of the current trolls with upgraded armour. Just like the Mumakil's war gear, we could have troll War gear. This new, better armour upgrade could come with the mace upgrade that has been added in or even a seperate upgrade available from a lv 3 troll cage or something.

4. Will the new black mumak and the new troll mini-hero (Mollock, is it?) have new special abilities, other than the old ones?

5. Many of the upgradable orc units in Mordor don't look any different with or without the heavy armour upgrade. Before the change was a bit more obvious and you could tell which of your troops was upgraded... I think this applies a lot for Isengard units too, like the Uruks and the Warg riders.

6. Finally, many of the button images of the new units don't go well with the old style art. Maybe you could photoshop the current buttons of the new units so they are more drawing-like (like the original BFME 2 button art) so they all look cohensiive?

What do you think?

Edited by Prince of the Dark Forest, 15 October 2008 - 07:58 PM.

[Gfire]

1. The Mumakil are so strong already, leadership would be crazy! War paint could act as banner-carrier for them.

2. Larger would be cool. I don't remember chains in the movie...

3. Interesting idea. That's kinda what they did in Bfme1.

4. Sounds cool.

5. Yes, you should be able to tell.

6. That would be cool, too.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

1. The Mumakil are so strong already, leadership would be crazy! War paint could act as banner-carrier for them.

2. Larger would be cool. I don't remember chains in the movie..

1. I guess your right, but I think having it as a seperate upgrade would make it ore varied. Or maybe, it could be part of the banner-carrier upgrade.

2. I mean these spiked chain wire thing attached between each tusk used to grind down the cavalry in Pellenor Fields (sorry, can't get a movie pic right now, but it looks the same in the film)

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

Hi,

I've done a portrait for Shagrat, because I don't think the current SEE new hero portraits look very parchmentry . I just want to know if its good, and I don't mind it being used...

Here it is:

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

About Mollock, what powers will he have?

I think he should have a power similar to Beserker Rage/Carnage. Another should be something like Cripple Strike. How about a crush unit in hand power? Like a very powerful attack where the troll grabs an enemy hero and crushes him? Also, how about a power where the troll slams his arms on the ground, knocking back nearby enemies and dealing really heavy damage?

I think he, as with all heroes, have unique powers.

[Gfire]

Some of those might require new anims that are otherwise unnecessary, but good ideas.

From what I've heard he has Dominate troll and leadership to all trolls. He probably also has a special attack or Berserker rage, too. Maybe leap.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

Some of those might require new anims that are otherwise unnecessary, but good ideas.

From what I've heard he has Dominate troll and leadership to all trolls. He probably also has a special attack or Berserker rage, too. Maybe leap.

Well, the reason I wanted the smash ground power is because I think it would be unrealistic for trolls to leap...

[{IRS}Athos]

I'll say... It would take insane amounts of force to get that huge troll off the ground!

[witchkingshour]

I'll post in here since you asked, Nazgul. With my pesky balancing changes and my constant testing (yes I am trying to help, in reality ) some things that need changing about Moria; some you may know, some maybe not:

A) Grond
Wow I like these, but to be honest they are often out of place on normal maps, and yet they come... Basically I acknowledge their mightiness and that their scale matters, but there are some problems. If they are going to be used in normal maps, which is fine, all walls need to be bigger. Right now its mouth sits somewhere in the air above them. What's more, they really do have too much health. Yes they should be hard to kill, but not THAT hard.

Suggestions:
Lower their health. Yes they should be tough but it's seriously too much!
Make them harder to acquire. I kill one and before long its back, very fast. Higher price, higher build time!

Post Scriptum to A):

I really do think that you'd do well by making all the generic walls bigger. Proportionally, mind, fatter and taller. Not only would it look better and play better, it'd make the scale of units and siege weapons right.

B) General units
Well, orcs suck, don't they? But don't get me wrong, they SHOULD suck. Their troops are small, quite weak and pathetically trained, BUT they have strength in overwhelming numbers, concealment in rocky and barren terrain and speed. Unfortunately, their weaknesses have been attended to, but not their strengths... Their current weakness is fine and canonical to the films, but to make it right:

Suggestions:
Keep their low health & armour and relatively low damage
Increase horde size OR (preferably) decrease build time and CP cost.

Post Scriptum to B):

I know you have not yet fully decided build times, but have many of them high for realism and gameplay, but on my suggestion for B) I would justify this; orcs (and goblins) advantage lies in speed and most importantly, numbers. They should be able to churn out many inferior and fodder-like infantry to match the fewer men, and even fewer elves, though they can be matched by the strength, equipment and skill of the latter, it relies on the player to be good - as in any game.

C) Mumakil
Great job on these, only a few problems, and some positive suggestions. They, like the Grond, are still a little bit too hard to kill. Their devastation against basically any melee unit is ok, but its armour and health are quite wrong. Even with dozens of wall-mounted trebuchets and archers going at it (and an eagle, come to think of it) it still takes far too long. Other thing is its crew, which I'll suggest about below.

Suggestions:
Decrease health/armour, OR, if you believe that it should be stupidly tough, make sure that most factions have some sort of unit(s) which, if used correctly, are effective against mumakil; think to the films of Ithilien rangers causing them to riot etc.
Increase the amount of haradrim etc. which can occupy it! It should be able to carry a decent amount of men on its back who can cause some serious damage. Yes I'm asking for more damage, but it'd be right!

Thanks

Chris

Yeah all these ideas I like them. I totally agree with the orcs and Goblins. They should be strong in numbers have larger battalions and weaker than say Soldiers or dwarves... But I agree and Disagree with Mumakil. I think they should have high damage, altho if you think killing easily, I disagree their. For one there are exspensive and it does take a while to get them. And actually I hardly get them because Trolls are far more useful. Although once the new 4.7 comes out Mumakil will be in a new faction so won't really affect me. But sometimes I like getting Mumakil because they look cool.

[{IRS}Athos]

The Mumakil are more than cool-looking. They completely own enemies. Even if they are a bit OP'd, I liked the BFME system of having Lv. 2 Mumakil come out of a lv. 3 Mumakil pen, because otherwise they take absolutely forever to level up.

[Gfire]

Some of those might require new anims that are otherwise unnecessary, but good ideas.

From what I've heard he has Dominate troll and leadership to all trolls. He probably also has a special attack or Berserker rage, too. Maybe leap.

Well, the reason I wanted the smash ground power is because I think it would be unrealistic for trolls to leap...

Well, trolls have quite a bit of muscle, but maybe a small little jump would be better, like the Troll CaH earth shaker. It seems more realistic than the leap.

The Mumakil are more than cool-looking. They completely own enemies. Even if they are a bit OP'd, I liked the BFME system of having Lv. 2 Mumakil come out of a lv. 3 Mumakil pen, because otherwise they take absolutely forever to level up.

A war paint upgrade, acting like banner carrier, would fix that problem.

[{IRS}Athos]

Aha! And they'd look cooler sooner...

[Gfire]

Aha! And they'd look cooler sooner...

Yeah, I thought of it a while ago, but forgot.

[witchkingshour]

S.e.e. team what is the progress of Witch-king's new voice? Did you find a good one for him?

[Grig]

I dun think they're doin the sound update in this release

Edited by Grig, 12 January 2009 - 08:09 PM.

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

Oooh! is there a new Witchking voice, I had an idea for it, not sure Nazgul will go for it but I'll do a test run and see what what he thinks.