379 replies to this topic

[Lord_Denethor]

Are we gonna get any screenshots for BETA 4.5 as apart of the preview?

[Rob38]

I have a couple of questions concerning some things about the beta list.

- AI upgrades of structures have gotten a new system added from BFME1 style, using experience. This system works along side the BFME2 system of directly buyable upgrades. This way you can choose your own strategy - upgrade from xp or upgrade faster at higher costs. This also means that the AI no longer have any problems reaching level 2 and 3 for its structures. This is a HUGE improvement in gameplay and AI functionality!

Robnkarla and I tested this a while ago and we discovered that it is not possible. You can have both systems, but for the purchase upgrade one, you have to have the cost low or it will interfere with the experience levels. A building gains experience through the amount of money you spend on it, so if you make the upgrade too expensive, it may interfere with this and skip a level. This really becomes a problem when your building is halfway to the next level and you decide to purchase the upgrade. I can only think of two ways around this:

1. Make the upgrade cost low but have the buildtime be longer. Not very ideal.
2. When a building is built, the player chooses wheather they want to have the ability to use upgrades or just build units for experience instead. You then just create different commandsets according to what the player chooses.

Let me know if you did something different as we (rob and I) would really like to know

All archers now also fire INDIVIDUALLY, and not syncronized like robots.

What did you edit in the weapon.ini to do this? I like to put this feature into my own mod and just am curious what you or Sul did Did you just edit the 'PreAttackRandomAmount' to a higher number?

Other than that, nice list of changes

Edited by Rob38, 07 September 2007 - 08:13 AM.

[Sûlherokhh]

I have a couple of questions concerning some things about the beta list.

...

Robnkarla and I tested this a while ago and we discovered that it is not possible. You can have both systems, but for the purchase upgrade one, you have to have the cost low or it will interfere with the experience levels. A building gains experience through the amount of money you spend on it, so if you make the upgrade too expensive, it may interfere with this and skip a level. This really becomes a problem when your building is halfway to the next level and you decide to purchase the upgrade.

Well, it is working. Either the AI buys the units and upgrades, which in turn provide the experience to level up, or it buys the 'level up'-upgrade, which doesn't differ at all from the other stuff you can buy there, except for the different buildcost and buildtime of course.
The AI even uses this expensive but quick to build shortcut if the urgency to build one of the rank 3 units is big enough. This happens mostly in the late game and with replacement buildings (once the leveled-up structures have fallen victim to enemy attacks).

Can you explain why you think a high cost intereferes with this? As long as the cost of the first upgrade is lower than the second (like 1000 and 2000) and the experience needed for the building is growing likewise (1000 and 3000 total in this case) there shouldn't be any skipping levels.

...

What did you edit in the weapon.ini to do this? I like to put this feature into my own mod and just am curious what you or Sul did Did you just edit the 'PreAttackRandomAmount' to a higher number?

Other than that, nice list of changes

Basically yes. But now they don't shoot all at a single target (they try, but a percentage aim somewhere else, and hit there too).

So, 'PreAttackRandomAmount' increase,
'HitPercentage' decrease (from 100% to about 60%),
'ScatterRadius' adjusted (to 0 - 30, depending on troop quality),
'HitStoredTarget = No' for all NonHero Missile Warheads, so that missing arrows don't go 'HeatSeeker' and also actually damage targets other than the intended one if they miss or if the target has moved along,
'RadiusDamageAffects = ' + 'ALLIES', so you better don't chase harrassing cavalry with you Pikemen while at the same time firing arrows at them, hehe. The effects are not really bad though, just pretty realistic that there is some fallout.

All in all, this is working pretty nicely.

[Nazgûl]

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why Sûl is the Head Coder of SEE, and not me

About screens - sure, there are loads of screens in the Screen Shots thread for Beta 4.5 you know

[Rob38]

Well, it is working. Either the AI buys the units and upgrades, which in turn provide the experience to level up, or it buys the 'level up'-upgrade, which doesn't differ at all from the other stuff you can buy there, except for the different buildcost and buildtime of course.
The AI even uses this expensive but quick to build shortcut if the urgency to build one of the rank 3 units is big enough. This happens mostly in the late game and with replacement buildings (once the leveled-up structures have fallen victim to enemy attacks).

Can you explain why you think a high cost intereferes with this? As long as the cost of the first upgrade is lower than the second (like 1000 and 2000) and the experience needed for the building is growing likewise (1000 and 3000 total in this case) there shouldn't be any skipping levels.

Well, the problem I get is when you build several units and then try to upgrade the structure. Since the building already has experience, when you purchase the upgrade, it will skip a level and jump to the next. Now, if you seperate it so that you can only choose one option at the beginning, than there shouldn't be any problems. It seems that for the AI, they'll choose one method and stick to it. Does the Ai ever decide to build several units and then go with the upgrade? I'll show this to robnkarla and maybe he'll understand it better than I do.

Thanks for the information on the archer weapons I'll be putting something like this in my mod since it is also something that annoyed me

Edited by Rob38, 07 September 2007 - 07:23 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

A tip with that. Start at the top of weapon.ini and work your way down. It's not as much as you think, only boringly repetitive. Which weapon is used by whom is pretty apparent. But if you are not sure make a filesearch. I wouldn't touch the hero weapons, otherwise hero archers may have a hard time actually killing anyone who doesn't stand still. Also think about any other changes you would want to do to the weapons so you can do it all in a single sweep. It's even more boring going through it all twice, hehe.

(On the other hand, this way you will get to know your weapon.ini file intimately, which will come in handy later, i can promise you that. )

About the leveling, just check back with RJ. He would only have to take a look at one of our barrack's commandsets/buttons/upgrades and the respective entries in experiencelevels.ini and water.ini. It should be easy enough to understand and implement. The most important restriction: The upgrade for leveling up from level 1 to 2 must cost the same or less than the upgrade from 2 to 3!.

[Sûlherokhh]

Does the Ai ever decide to build several units and then go with the upgrade?

Yes, it most definitely does. Especially with the Goblin Caves, as they are really slow in levelling up on their own (they got the cheapest units), so the AI usually buys one experience level if it got the cash and it needs one of the level 3 units badly.

The upgrade need the line 'SkirmishAIHeuristic = AI_UPGRADEHEURISTIC_FACTORY_UNITUNLOCK' for this to work correctly, and only if the next level provides units.

If the next level only provides upgrades (like an armory), you need to use 'SkirmishAIHeuristic = AI_UPGRADEHEURISTIC_IMPORTANT' instead.

Edited by Sûlherokhh, 08 September 2007 - 12:49 AM.

[Strider]

Looks great. Nice work guys! Cant wait to play.

- BFME1 Intro & ShellMap added, replacing the BFME2 ones. This has been done because the BFME1 intro is the movie style intro and the ShellMap is the SEE theme =)

This is my only concern though. Wasnt their a thing about that adding too much memory to the game and people not being able to download it(download limits)?

[Nazgûl]

It's spelled "there"

Well some ppl might have probs with download limits but unfortionately, having two versions will just cause probs when playing online, so it will be this version only. I'm sorry if some ppl have limits... I don't and I want those things in the mod

(It's not the shellmap that uses a lot of MB though, it's the intro movie, and maybe it's possible to just skip that file in one version and still have them act like the same version. I'll experiment on that before rel.)

[Sûlherokhh]

When i left the movie out on accident, he just read the equally named standard BfMe2-intro-movie and played it. I assume that there would be no difference, because the ini files are not changed for the new intro. But we should test this at least once.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, if it works we can naturally have 2 versions for download.... One FULL version, and one without the intro.

But like Sûl said... it must be tested before we can say for sure =)

[Strider]

I know all the different theres but its easier to just use one all the time since everyone knows what I mean.

All right that would be great becuase Im not sure im my computer has enough spare memory for the intor movie.

[Nazgûl]

*OffT begin*
That is a quick way in participating of the killing of a language... =p Sorry, but I'm just allergic to all forms of language deteriorations – that’s why I’m nagging about spelling sometimes (even if I know that my spelling isn't exactly flawless either, but I get a handicap from being Swedish and having a stupid cordless keyboard) hehe

I just think that since mobile phones with text messaging and Internet chatting became every mans personal accessory, and since it crawled down in ages, languages all over the world have started to transform into something else... something less intelligent, and over here, in Sweden, the scenario is critical. We have schools where kids are in their late teens and they can’t even spell properly for a normal every day life…

So even if you know what is right, you are most likely going to learn others that it spells like that when it doesn’t. I know Lauri spells that word the same way, and he’s Norwegian… maybe he learned it from you?
*OffT end*

I hope you understand that I’m not lecturing you and I’m not being as dead serious as it may sound, I was just in a writing mood basically

Anyway… The intro is 90 Mb… it’s not 90 Gb, so if you don’t have about 100Mb to spare your drive should be on the verge of exploding anyway me thinks…

On to some fun things... *posting screen shot*

[witchkingshour]

I don't know if anyone noticed this, but Aragorn is really slow. Can we give him a speed buff or you think it's not needed?

[Nazgûl]

I agree, and there are more heroes that might need a slight buff in speed, especially when attacking. *noted*

(One that is already fixed this way is Gothmog btw) =)

[witchkingshour]

I agree, and there are more heroes that might need a slight buff in speed, especially when attacking. *noted*

(One that is already fixed this way is Gothmog btw) =)

Yeah, but I loved the speed Gandy has on shadowfax, i just clicked to retreat and i was just like wow, he finally got the speed he deserved as if I remember correctly, he was supposed to be the fastest in middle earth since shadowfax was the lord of all horses.

[Nazgûl]

Note: You don't have to quote anyone if your reply is being posted directly underneath the post you're replying to...

And yes, as explained in the SEE PDF ReadMe, that is why Shadowfax is the fastest horse in the game =)

[Strider]

*OffT begin*
That is a quick way in participating of the killing of a language... =p Sorry, but I'm just allergic to all forms of language deteriorations – that’s why I’m nagging about spelling sometimes (even if I know that my spelling isn't exactly flawless either, but I get a handicap from being Swedish and having a stupid cordless keyboard) hehe

I just think that since mobile phones with text messaging and Internet chatting became every mans personal accessory, and since it crawled down in ages, languages all over the world have started to transform into something else... something less intelligent, and over here, in Sweden, the scenario is critical. We have schools where kids are in their late teens and they can’t even spell properly for a normal every day life…

So even if you know what is right, you are most likely going to learn others that it spells like that when it doesn’t. I know Lauri spells that word the same way, and he’s Norwegian… maybe he learned it from you?
*OffT end*

I hope you understand that I’m not lecturing you and I’m not being as dead serious as it may sound, I was just in a writing mood basically

You bring up a good point. It is crazy how many people havent learned to read by the time they are teenagers.

I never did like text chat. It seemed to be something for the lazy man. like when some one says u instead of you it just gets annoying. If they use it too much then I get totally lost and dont catch a word they say. And dont get me started on leet speak.

Perhaps Lauri is just the same as me in he uses it one way all the time to make it easier. But thats also true someone might pick up on it and think its used one way and not another.

[Nazgûl]

Exactly... and hey,t hanks for not getting upset
Well... I better get back on topic now before I upset myself... lol =)

I think I have covered it all in that list, but if Sûl or anyone finds something else that I might have missed, please let me know

[Mathijs]

Teenagers in Holland are notorious for filling in their tests in their silly ''MSN-language.'' Stupid monkeys.

Righto, on-topic.