379 replies to this topic

[Rhodin]

@ elbenmensch - How can you say that 9 Nazgûl is to much? They are "The nine" in the books and in the movie therefore they should be nine in SEE too.
And I don't get the dividing the elves into two factions because:
1. It is completely 100% ridiculous.
2. This mod is not about trying to squeeze as many heroes as possible in for every faction.
3. Creating a hole new faction involves a HUGE amount of work (Is my guess) wich is not something that no sane person would do just to be able to put Elladan and Elrohir in the game.


@ witchkingshour - The buildings are very strong, because you are not supposed to be able to bring down buildings without siege, and that is one of the many reasons that this is a great mod (Kudos to Naz and Sul ).

Edited by Rhodin, 21 September 2007 - 12:17 AM.

[Nazgûl]

What he said ^ + this:

I would more like to have Elrohir and Elladan than 4 hobbits... For example Merry and Pippin could be moved to men of the west.
> No, cause they have the Mount Treebeard ability, and all ents stay with Elves...

And i like the idea about weaker heroes its boring to take down a base only with heroes and spellbooks.:(
> You can't bring down a base with only heroes and spell book powers. If you can, I'd like to see it

And 9 nazgul is great but toooooooooooo much.
> Tell it to Sauron Seriously, just like Rhodin said, they are the Nine, and if you don't like it, play another mod or the original game The Nine will NEVER leave this mod.

So what about giving a hero only one live?SOmething like you can only revive him if you build a new forress ;that would make sence i think;)
> Sence - perhaps yes... but playability - no. The AI would lose it's heroes in the first 20 mins of the game, and in late game all heroes would be gone. I understand your point, and I too dispise "tank" like heroes, but it's the only way. And besides, our heroes are much less strong than in retial version anyways. I had 40 orcs take down Gandalf the other day... And try to see the toughness of armor as dodging =p And in the movies, the heroes slaughter enemies by the number anyways, so...

And what about dividing the elves into Rivendell(or MIrkwood) and Lorien...Why not?You would have a place for all heroes and could create many new units.
> Cause adding factions SUCKS... it's REEEAAALLLYYY hard work. Just imagine all the extra needed structures and all the animations and shit that they need. No sireee... the only faction we will add is EvilMen.

I think Heroes otta be strong as they were in the movie and that's what were trying to accomplish here. But I think some Buildings are a little too strong like Towers which pretty much that's all the A.I. builds. Unless you got siege of course.

That's why we have siege... yes


And one more thing, this thread is not for suggestions really... If you wanna comment, comment on what's on the list ^

[witchkingshour]

Ahh thank goodness too. I think the 9 is like my favorite thing about this mod But anyway, I didn't nessicarily mean that siege isn't the way to go. I was just saying like whenever I plan my plot for the attack on the A.I.'s base, towers is what gives me trouble, I'll have like 4 Mountain Giants and them towers always target them even if my Goblins and stuff get there first. But I actually love how siege is as you will need it to take down a fort.

But actually Mordor is only faction I don't use siege, well not Catapults. I just use the 9 along with a few attack trolls, mumakil, along with either Balrog or Rain of fire

[elbenmensch]

@Nazgul:You might be right in some points but:YOu can take down a base with the nine,Sauron and a Balrog,rain of fire and so on,cuz I DID IT *proud*
Actually i accept what you said about the hobbits ,but it would be more "film like"(a word u use very often )cuz in the movie and in the book they fight for the men.
Its not ridiculous to have a second elven faction ,so pls tell me why????
I know mods with 2 elven factions and its not just the point of adding 2 heroes...Rivendell and Lorien are like Isengard and Mordor.JUst think of the Noldor and so on.For rotwk there is a mod including 2 elven factions and i dont think its the only 1. But its ok if you cant add a new elven faction.


Yes its true they are the nine but they didnt all act in a battle together(Mnas tirith maybe?)MOrdor is overpowered. But i know you wont get them out of the game
But:I have great respect for ur work but why didd u say:"Play another mod!" ???
I like this mod best but when u react like this just cuz i said that nine Nazguls are too much...this is ridiculous
This is my favourite mod and u wont get rid of me
So dont even try it

Edited by elbenmensch, 21 September 2007 - 01:08 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

The only thing being rediculous around here is that we have to tell every newly arrived fan the same things, over and over again.

Of course you are free to make suggestions. Providing a rationale for your ideas is also very appreciated. Only do it in one of the suggestion threads. And read them first. As mentioned above, your suggestions have already been discussed. So check up on the results of the discussion and maybe restart them fresh with a new angle.

What Naz means by saying "Play another mod!" is just a short version of:

'We have been tossing ideas for the past half years. Most obvious choices have already been made so we won't change them anymore. Making a mod is hard work. It's easier to just find a mod with (some of the) things in it that you like than make one on your own.'

If you want your ideas to be taken seriously, post them in the right thread. Most importantly, check if anyone else has already suggested something similar and find out what came of it. Chances are, if it was a good suggestion, it has already been incorporated in the ToDo-List, which is another thread on it's own.

So, best you familiarize yourself with the still growing subforum and don't add to the clutter of potentially volatile repeat-ad-nauseam 'but i want this and that'? After some reading, you'll get the hang of it.

Don't take this the wrong way. I am very happy that you enjoy the fruits of our work. Just don't expect us to dance to your whims or not to get bored by the same questions and suggestions over and over again.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[Nazgûl]

That's correct... I'm not trying to sound like a schmuck... It just that you can't really come in here as a new member and ask for changes of the fundamentals of this mod.

And Mordor is in no way OVER-powered. But indeed thay are powerful. But if you had read the SEE PDF ReadMe you'd know that the intention with SEE is not having 6 equal factions, but rather 6 interresting and "personal" factions... Mordor is SUPPOSED to be strong. But, most things have their weaknesses. Just read the other thread where "Lord of the Rings Junkie" was posting remarks on how fast his fellbeasts died from elven arrows. So, they're not invincible just cause they're 9

[elbenmensch]

kk
i didnt want any changes i just wanted to say something intelligent
And believe me i know that its hard work to make a mod

so happy hunting

PS.I have read and enjoyed the pdf readme long before...grreat work i hope there will be an update(again wrong Thread probably )

Edited by elbenmensch, 21 September 2007 - 06:53 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Hehe nah that's ok =) I will make a new PDF for Beta 4.5 indeed

[Sûlherokhh]

Allright guys. Something for you to read. I hope you can handle the format.

Fixes were done from bottom to top, in case the sequence kinda doesn't make sense.

Update: (more fixes and additions already done for Beta 4.5)

• (X) AI for 'Eye of Sauron'. Now is also used as a 'battle debuff' and not only as a 'EnemyFortress scouting aid'
• (X) New skull model for Mordor Catapult. Added normal catapult fire animations to special power, as well as full AI compatibility.
• (X) New ArrowImpactFX PoisonArrow/BarbedArrow/GondorArrow
• (X) Complete Overhaul of the FortressExpansion's Range/VisionRange/Shroudrange behavior, as well as more organized AI placement on the expansion pads.
• (X) Adjusted Fellbeast Scale and attack Animations
• (X) WK now has 4(5) different Melee Weapons (and attack animations):
  - SwordStrike (Against Heroes and Monsters, hits only one target but is strong)
  - Mace OverheadSmackdown (Especially Against Hordes and Structures, Range/Radius 45, Damage Arc 15°)
  - Mace BackhandCirclingStrikie (Especially Against Hordes and Structures, Range/Radius 30, Damage Arc 45°)
  - RunningSwordStrike (Against Everyone, only when moving while striking)
  - SwordThrust (Only used with Morgul Blade)
• (X) Adjusted Attack Ranges for all Heroes (shorter). Riders with swords now attack at about 2 to 4 o'clock (direction, right side).
• (X) Adjusted Horde movement behavior
  - When set on Aggressive Stance, hordes now swarm much farther apart when in melee combat, making the battlefield more realistically chaotic. Also less units will stand around in the back ranks doing nothing.
  - Adjusted CavalryHorde turning behavior, which was akward before, unless they where turning 180°.
  - WargCavalry turningFix (Horde was faster than HordeMembers
• (X) Goblin Archer PoisonFX and Special 'Flaming Arrows' (works much like Noldorin WeaponSong)
• (X) Hobbit Hordes not having XP levels fixed
• (X) MountainTroll not having DustFX and sounds when grabbing a Rock CaveTroll is fixed.
• (X) Evil Economy Expansion are now 33% Lumbermills, 67% standard. The AI will replace killed workers at a later date.
• (X) Glorfindel - Starlight/Blade of Purity - Powers and Texts adjusted
• (X) Even more awesome new skirmishAI and skirmishAIbases! Never play them on brutal or you will regret it.
• (X) MordorBattleTower now has it's own archer crew (5).
• (X) HarardrimArcher-Bug removed, where they were sprouting flames when running around damaged but still alive.
• (X) MountainTroll and CaveTroll AI: They now pick up Orcs (and eat them) when damaged. Also they pick up a tree when in melee combat and a tree is close. Use 'Bombing' animation, lobbing stones higher when the target is far away. Rampaging is now occurring more often and has an increased radius. New TrollGrabVictim-Projectile.
• (X) UrukRaider BannerCarrier Speed increased to match the UrukRaider Speed
• (X) Perfected Balrog AI (Anim Timing, Power use)
• (X) All new Good/Evil FortressUpgrade FX! (except for the dwarves who already had them)
• (X) All new strings for the Fortress Floor upgrades
• (X) Wargpit building dust fixed
• (X) New Fortress Textures (pending Nazgûl's approval)
• (X) Nazgûl/Blackrider level adjustments. AI compatible. New NazzieMountSwitch
  * level 1 - mount/dismount horse (disabled when mounted on Fellbeast)
  * level 2 - dread gaze
  * level 4 - terrifying screech
  * level 6 - morgul blade
  * level 8 - mount/dismount Fellbeast (disabled when mounted on horseback)
• (X) Witchking level adjustments. AI compatible.
  * level 1 - mount Fellbeast/horse
  * level 2 - dread gaze + WK leadership (he should have one, and also the beautiful WK leadership button)
  * level 4 - terrifying screech
  * level 6 - morgul blade
  * level 8 - hour of the WK (curse enemy - reset timers) mounted use only.
  * level 8 - hour of the WK (Flaming Sword) on foot only.
• (X) Tune Bard (Hawk companion, two special attacks, dale leadership.
• (X) Moria Elite: Requirements (Treasure Trove, Poison Blades, Armor). They also automatically come with these upgrades and cost 400 more. Need level 3 Goblin Cave.
• (X) Gondor TowerGuard: Requirements (Blacksmith, Forged Blade, Armor). They also automatically come with these upgrades and cost 400 more. Need level 3 Barracks.
• (X) Mordor Black Uruks: Requirements (Tavern, Forged Blade, Armor)
• (X) Isengard Uruk Elite: Requirements (Forge, Forged Blade, Armor)
• (X) FortressWeaponUpgrade AI fixed
• (X) Halved damage of Corsair Bombs and MordorCatapults
• (X) Frodo/Sam-Disguise Lua issues fixed
  
• (X) STANCE AI behaviour for all units and hordes
• (X) Increased radius for DwarvenRiches/Industry from 200 to 250. Now limited to 5 minutes. (EA patch 1.05 update)
• (X) Phantom Models for Rohan Archery and Stable level 3 building instead of level 3 fixed
• (X) Mûmak animation overhaul (turning anims, cut-off attack anims repaired). Additional dying animation. SuperRampage when aflame and dying.
• (X) Gothmog animation SoundFX fix; additional WargBite attack and ChillingWarg-Idle anim.
• (X) New Floor model and textures for Fortresses; attributemodifier (+5%production/+20%armor) for standard non-combat structures on the FortressFloor in place and working
• (X) Balrog powers now usuable on auto (right-click). PLUS the AI now uses its abilities fully!
• (X) AI-mounting fixed for Gandalf, Eomer, Eowyn (also Disguise), Nazgûl, Faramir, Glorfindel
• (X) Rohan BattleTower arrow FirePoints fixed
• (X) Gothmog screwed up Anims overhauled completely! Additional animations for Idle, emotions movement and attacks.
• (X) Adjust GondorSpearman buttons (otherwise equal to Easterling)
• (X) Make Nazgul and WK mount horse and fellbeast on TWO mount buttons and keeping only two objects (1 Fellbeast, 1 Horse/OnFoot). No more circle mounting. Powers can be seperately triggered by upgrades if wanted
• (X) Moved SpiderPit to NeutralSpiderCreeps (as alternate Creep building). Added Spiderriders to the MinorSpider Units in SpiderCreep. Start with bow, toggle to poisoned spear when in close range, recruitable and buildable with UntamedAllegiance.
• (X) Copy NeutralWargPit to Moria (WargRiderPit)
• (X) MissileWeapon toggled when unit/horde built: HobbitFriends, Hobbit Heroes, Haldir, Jackson, Corsairs, Rohirrim; This way the AI will use Melee AND Missile for them.
• (X) Arwen Floodhorse area damage fixed (was too large; Floodhorse area damage overlapped with other Floodhorse's area damage by more than 200%). AI and Autoability done and working.
• (X) Tune Khazad Guard: Requirements (Siegeworks, Forged Blade, Armor)+AxeThrow, no BerserkerMode
• (X) Removed Zerker AxeThrow (Khazad Guard have it now)
• (X) Multiple Childobjects for LorienArchers and LorienWarriors to fix MultipleHATextures
• (X) Aragorn Leadership Text adjustment.
• (X) Adapt "scenery maps" commandsets to the mod (Rivendell, Helm's Deep, Minas Tirith...) including the GreenDragon Inn
• (X) Call the Horde AI Scripting
• (X) Autoabilites and AIfor Grima, MoS all Spellbooks and several other heroes.
• (X) Changed 'HumanHeads'-AmmoSwitch power of Catapult into a TimedPower, just like the OilBarrel of the DwarvenCatapult, both usuable as autoability as well (right-click), but only triggered by 'soft targets (not structures)
• (X) Autoabilites for MenOfDaleArchersBlackArrows, BattleWagonOilBarrel, DwarvenGuardianBullRush fixed.
• (X) Captain Jackson no longer does the Moonwalk.
• (X) The Slayer ability for Gimli isn't greyed out when he's on a level to low to use it
• (X) Eowyn: AIability Dernhelm
• (X) Sometimes the dwarven mighty catapult doesn't fire (Trigger Ranges not the same)
• (X) Tune Warg Riders (PoisonFX, no 'Isengard' audio)
• (X) Noldor WeaponSong Text needs to say 'level 5'
  
• (X) Increased Size (+50%) to Summonend Spiderlings
• (X) Fixed Top Right Monitor Display for InnUnit Upgrades
• (X) The "BFME1" stuff - Intro, - ShellMap, and - BFME1toBFME2 ported playable maps.

[elbenmensch]

Sounds very good ,*littlechildish*when will it come?

Edited by elbenmensch, 22 September 2007 - 06:36 PM.

[Nazgûl]

When it's done...

[witchkingshour]

Wow that sounds so awesome and yet I am enjoying the current version so much and yet that versions sounds so much better. I am looking forward to that brutal AI and I believe him when he says " you will regret playing the brutal AI" but I'm the kinda person that feels like as much as I have killed the AI, I would like for sometimes for the AI to do the same to me lol. Anyway great work guys, it really sounds like a awesome upgrade from version we are using. SO when is this coming? (lmao just kidding Naz)

[Nazgûl]

Hehe =P
Yeah, I don't even have Sûl's latest files but I can tell you that the version I played yesterday really gave me a tough time, and I love that =)

[CapnAstroSponge]

Yeah, better to be owned and have it last then it is own and have it done in .2 seconds.

[witchkingshour]

Hehe very true. But it's not just A.I. that excites me. I also told the makers of the game when it first came out that I wanted that feature where you can just keep making units to level up ur production buildings instead of upgrading them for cash. That's what they used for Battle for middle earth 1 and I loved that, so I'm looking forward to that, but man there's just so much other that is coming out on this beta. Just sounds very cool to me. Although I know this ain't the place for this, but I gotta ask, is there like a contact list for this beta where I could get some online games with people? I would get owned, but It be fun to me, I love losing! lol.

[King_of_Blades]

I (probably with some other people as well) seem to forget that this next release will be a beta, and not a final release. And this is just Beta 4.5! Imagine what will be released in the solid 1.0!

[Lauri]

you mean 5.0?

[Medicleous]

Hey Nazgûl, I've basically registered to make this one post but it's something I've been curious about for ages. I don't know if this has already been mentioned but here goes...

I noticed that when controlling a group of unmounted Nazgûl, they still make the sounds as if they were riding horses. This only occurs when they are grouped together. This is an error that I have been annoyed by ever since I bought the game. I was wondering if you would be able to fix this.

By the way, I only just found out about this mod a few days ago, downloaded and played it for the first time two days ago. You have revitalized my interest in these games. I thank you for that because despite their shortcomings the BFME games remain my favorite ever. You should be proud of what you are doing because despite this just being a game, you are going to make many hundreds of people happy when they finally play this masterpiece.

Just one thing though, remember that young children will play this mod aswell as adults, so you shouldn't use big words like "bequeathing", or referring to Gandalf as Olorin. My young cousin loves the movies and the games, but he wouldm't no what an olorin is!

[Sûlherokhh]

a) fixed

b) Thanks for the praise. Me like the mod too!

c) So what? This is about us having fun modding the game and also about making it movie like. Gandalf was called Olorin as well as Mithrandir in the movies.

[Medicleous]

a) fixed

b) Thanks for the praise. Me like the mod too!

c) So what? This is about us having fun modding the game and also about making it movie like. Gandalf was called Olorin as well as Mithrandir in the movies.

I only remember him being called Gandalf Stormcrow, oh well... I know about the other names, for all five wizards. I just thought that if you intend to have you're mod appeal to the widest possible amount of people these things should be condidered, right?

By the way I really like your screenies too Sûlherokhh, nice work!