86 replies to this topic

[Ash]

Old quote, but...

You see, all of those deaths can't be in vain. Thats why America is in war. Not for money or dominance, but to make sure those lives lost were not for nothing. I hate war but it must be done. The most effective means of peace is to prepare for war.(thanks for the quote gen. washington.)

We use deaths...in order to make other deaths not be in vain.

*nods*
Yeah, because THAT makes sense.


No suicide strike justifies War on Iraq... still, I do think attacking the Pentagon sounds a bit far-fetched. Though I would like to know where the fuselage went. They don't just vaporise...

[Tom]

Theres alot of evidence to suggest the pentagon was hit by a missile. Check this out:

http://www.pentagons.../flash.htm#Main

But again there is always scientists who go to lengths to proof it wrong. I've watched the video myself and i find it hard to believe that the plane just disintergrated into thin air like it suggests. I don't take sides on 9/11 because its a sensitive subject that caused all these problems. The truth is not out there, its difficult to tell what is true and what is, because gw's gov do so well at covering it up and distorting it.

Other Links on the topic:
http://www.abovetops...e_evidence.html
http://911research.w...ideoframes.html
http://www.whatreall.../hijackers.html
http://www.cassiopae...cass/boeing.htm
http://www.fromthewi...lify_case.shtml
http://www.geocities.../pentalawn2000/
http://911research.w...talks/pentagon/
http://www.rense.com...strangecase.htm
http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

So many sources, so many different views. We know GW and Dick Cheney cannot be trusted, but then again i find it impossible to believe that a few men would waste so much life for money, then again, Iraq proved it was possible.

My own opinion is that someone knew about 9/11 and let it happen. I myself believe George W knew nothing about it, clearly the state he was in when sitting the the classroom that fateful morning shows that.

[MSpencer]

One hit him in the leg, one hit the driver and one hit him in the head. Not all 3.

One hit the neck and exited through the throat, the other hit the head. The third missed.

3. Ask MS, what happens if you get shot 3 times in the back of the head by 7.92, do you just slump over with minimun cranial damage, or does your head explode?

Well 1 7.92mm would cause the back of your skull to explode, basically. The result would curve the bullet down, probably exiting not through the forehead (Like you see on movies, heads are pretty damn durable and it's not unheard of for a 9mm to not kill someone), but exit through the chin or nasal area.

Also, if there's one thing you think about instantly about Marines, it has to be competent marksmanship. Lee Harvey Oswald could very easily, with a high power scope of course, kill President Kennedy at that distance. It frankly would not be that hard for a trained person to do that.

[Hostile]

Theres alot of evidence to suggest the pentagon was hit by a missile. Check this out:

http://www.pentagons.../flash.htm#Main

But again there is always scientists who go to lengths to proof it wrong. I've watched the video myself and i find it hard to believe that the plane just disintergrated into thin air like it suggests. I don't take sides on 9/11 because its a sensitive subject that caused all these problems. The truth is not out there, its difficult to tell what is true and what is, because gw's gov do so well at covering it up and distorting it.

Other Links on the topic:
http://www.abovetops...e_evidence.html
http://911research.w...ideoframes.html
http://www.whatreall.../hijackers.html
http://www.cassiopae...cass/boeing.htm
http://www.fromthewi...lify_case.shtml
http://www.geocities.../pentalawn2000/
http://911research.w...talks/pentagon/
http://www.rense.com...strangecase.htm
http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

So many sources, so many different views. We know GW and Dick Cheney cannot be trusted, but then again i find it impossible to believe that a few men would waste so much life for money, then again, Iraq proved it was possible.

My own opinion is that someone knew about 9/11 and let it happen. I myself believe George W knew nothing about it, clearly the state he was in when sitting the the classroom that fateful morning shows that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These seem like everyday conspiracy websites. Are they suggesting that the US gov convinced people to act as suicide pilots? How would they have controled the planes without people choosing to die to pull off such a stunt?

The gov brainwashed people to act as suicide pilots? I just don't see the feasibility.

[Silent_Killa]

I just... honestly, don't know what to say guys... a bunch of conspiracy theory sites in order to prove that the US gov decided to blow up its own building...

[Tom]

There is no evidence to suggest a plane actually hit the pentagon accept from what come out of the governments mouth. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy, i'm saying i don't trust anything that happened on 9/11 to be as straightforward as the US gov saidf for many reasons.

1. They needed something to happen so they could start their war with Saddam.
2. George W and his daddy have ties with the Saudis and Bin Ladens
3. The FBI acted very odd that day and so did the secret service.
4. Planes took too long to be scrambled seems to me someone allowed the pentagon to be hit
5. No evidence of the pentagon being hit by an actual plane was shown
6. Somehow the FBI found an indestructable passport and even managed to publish the hijackers names within hours (even though some of them are apparently still alive). They also conviscated the videos near the pentagon and they have never been shown. They also managed to get the speech from the terrorists speaking on the plane to the passengers...
7. Flight 77 disappeared off the radar long before it was said to have hit the pentagon.

But then we do know
1. Osama tried to blow up the WTC in 1993
2. Osama hated America because of its policies
3. Osama realised america used him in the cold war so they could get rich

Again we can all thank the American Governments for osamas war on the west.

[MSpencer]

7. Flight 77 disappeared off the radar long before it was said to have hit the pentagon.

Transponders send radar signals to control towers, and control towers do not have active search radar going. Unplug the transponder and you're off radar.

3. Osama realised america used him in the cold war so they could get rich

We lost millions of dollars funding that bastard, giving him the FIM92As that didn't even work against Hinds. We supplied him, not the other way around, and it cost a lot of money, but it did stop the spread of communism.
And Russia would have done the same.

Somehow the FBI found an indestructable passport and even managed to publish the hijackers names within hours

Try days, not hours. I find it funny that I've seen the video of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the terrorists who hijacked Flight 11, the plane I had been on a month before, walking casually around Portsmouth airport. That's how they ID'd a lot of them. They saw a lot of them on the tapes, and tracked down their names. Hell, if you've got the entire FBI working on one case, you can do anything.

They also conviscated the videos near the pentagon and they have never been shown.

I don't know why, but this is a hair brained conspiracy theorist's dream. So what, they confiscated some videos.

They also managed to get the speech from the terrorists speaking on the plane to the passengers...

Now I'm sure that THIS never happened. I don't remember ANYTHING saying this, and I can tell you without a doubt that an audio tape of this does not exist.
FACTUAL INFORMATION IS YOUR FRIEND

4. Planes took too long to be scrambled seems to me someone allowed the pentagon to be hit

There are no alert fighters at Andrews armed with air to air weaponry. F-16Cs got up a bit later, but they were too late because there was no call to get in the air, there was no ordnance around so they had to attach it from probably clear across the airfield (because at Andrews, ordnance is sealed up because it's Air Force One's home, and at the central nervous system of the country), and then fuel the fighters, and then have them take off after again verifying orders. The entire ordeal takes more than one hour. Planes do not take off like in Generals or RA2 where they always have unlimited fuel and seemingly take off instantaneously. Orders take a while to get down the chain of command.

2. George W and his daddy have ties with the Saudis and Bin Ladens

They have ties with the Saudis, such as the ones with the names al Saud... you know... the royal family. Maybe it has something to do with the president's dad saving their asses.

1. They needed something to happen so they could start their war with Saddam.

You mean the Taliban. Now who's getting confused, Mr. Cloning doesn't require genetics?

3. The FBI acted very odd that day and so did the secret service.

I imagine you and all the FBI and USSS agents are on a first name basis, right? They were in as much shock as the rest of the public, and they did their jobs to the best of their abilities. They're not robots, they're actual people.

2. Osama hated America because of its policies

No, Osama hates America because he's an extremist. I find it funny you're defending a man who would not hesitate to kill you.

[Mastermind]

7. Flight 77 disappeared off the radar long before it was said to have hit the pentagon.

Transponders send radar signals to control towers, and control towers do not have active search radar going. Unplug the transponder and you're off radar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not quite, but close. The transponder sends a response signal to the radar when it is painted. If you turn off the transponder, you are almost invisible. Once you get within a certain range, even a civilian radar will get a skin paint off of the aircraft. The problem is that that range is much smaller than the normal range.

[MSpencer]

Military radar would of course pick them up, because all air force bases have active radar going as part of their defense net. Then again, those records are classified.

[Mastermind]

I was referring specifically to civilian radar. Those are capable of skin painting an aircraft, but they have a much shorter range than any comparable military radar, which uses the transponder only to identify the aircraft.

[Tom]

7. Flight 77 disappeared off the radar long before it was said to have hit the pentagon.

Transponders send radar signals to control towers, and control towers do not have active search radar going. Unplug the transponder and you're off radar.

3. Osama realised america used him in the cold war so they could get rich

We lost millions of dollars funding that bastard, giving him the FIM92As that didn't even work against Hinds. We supplied him, not the other way around, and it cost a lot of money, but it did stop the spread of communism.
And Russia would have done the same.

Exactly. The cold war was about screwing the world, not stopping communism as you are trying to lead everyone to believe. Communism was just the common enemy to rally around whilst they screwed countries left right and centre.

Somehow the FBI found an indestructable passport and even managed to publish the hijackers names within hours

Try days, not hours. I find it funny that I've seen the video of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the terrorists who hijacked Flight 11, the plane I had been on a month before, walking casually around Portsmouth airport. That's how they ID'd a lot of them. They saw a lot of them on the tapes, and tracked down their names. Hell, if you've got the entire FBI working on one case, you can do anything.

Erm, they published the Hijackers names within hour. How the hell did they know who they were within hours?

They also conviscated the videos near the pentagon and they have never been shown.

I don't know why, but this is a hair brained conspiracy theorist's dream. So what, they confiscated some videos.

Well its called logic. If the FBI were smart enough to show videos and prove these conspiracy theorists wrong then there would be no conspiracy theorys, but sadly they have something to hide.

They also managed to get the speech from the terrorists speaking on the plane to the passengers...

Now I'm sure that THIS never happened. I don't remember ANYTHING saying this, and I can tell you without a doubt that an audio tape of this does not exist.
FACTUAL INFORMATION IS YOUR FRIEND

BBC had the sound. I'll try find it online, apparently a terrorist was saying to the passengers "Don't do anything to put your life at risk." I know its stupid but this is the american government and FBI we are talking about. I'm sure enough these terrorists didn't shout this down the intercom to the people at the traffic control towers, so any idea how the BBC magically got hold of this? Or was it some sadtistic bastard trying to make his story sound more dramatic?

4. Planes took too long to be scrambled seems to me someone allowed the pentagon to be hit

There are no alert fighters at Andrews armed with air to air weaponry. F-16Cs got up a bit later, but they were too late because there was no call to get in the air, there was no ordnance around so they had to attach it from probably clear across the airfield (because at Andrews, ordnance is sealed up because it's Air Force One's home, and at the central nervous system of the country), and then fuel the fighters, and then have them take off after again verifying orders. The entire ordeal takes more than one hour. Planes do not take off like in Generals or RA2 where they always have unlimited fuel and seemingly take off instantaneously. Orders take a while to get down the chain of command.

PEOPLES LIVES WERE AT THREAT AND THEY WORRY ABOUT CHAIN OF COMMAND??! That is odd. If they know planes have been hijacked why will they worry about a chain of command to save people? Obviously because they didn't care as much as they made out. Your telling me they needed orders from a general or even George W who was reading about goats at a school to scramble planes at a moment where national security is at threat? I find it hard to believe, maybe its just me not having the military knowledge, sometimes i think i'm lucky i don't, from what i've seen it blinds your way of thinking logically.

2. George W and his daddy have ties with the Saudis and Bin Ladens

They have ties with the Saudis, such as the ones with the names al Saud... you know... the royal family. Maybe it has something to do with the president's dad saving their asses.

17 of the hijackers were saudis. Why was a huge part of the 9/11 commission report which said about the saudis blocked out by george? Again so many unanswered questions by your most admired "president."

1. They needed something to happen so they could start their war with Saddam.

You mean the Taliban. Now who's getting confused, Mr. Cloning doesn't require genetics?

No i mean Saddam. You know the guy he tried desperately to get 9/11 linked too but failed. The guy he had plans to go to war with long before he was even "elected." Yes saddam, not the taliban. Afghanistand was just a pathetic excuse to make it look like they gave a shit about Bin laden, they didn't, all they were interested about was Iraq.

3. The FBI acted very odd that day and so did the secret service.

I imagine you and all the FBI and USSS agents are on a first name basis, right? They were in as much shock as the rest of the public, and they did their jobs to the best of their abilities. They're not robots, they're actual people.

I think i know who actual people are more than you seem to know spence, don't dictate to me about actual people when you clearly support war anywhere else. Everyone affected by war is an actual person, but no, they are seen as enemies to your country and you simply forget they are human beings. They just become testing dummies for the pentagon. Depleted Uranium and the RNEP.

The FBI did act odd that day and so did the SS, you cannot deny it, it wasn't just shock, i know they were shocked, but they had orders from someone higher up to ensure not to much knowledge gets to the public. This is so George and his government could exploit it later for war in iraq.

2. Osama hated America because of its policies

No, Osama hates America because he's an extremist. I find it funny you're defending a man who would not hesitate to kill you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He hates america because of your policies to the middle east. Bush is an extremist too and i find it funny that you are defending a man who is just as danagerous as osama.

Not quite, but close. The transponder sends a response signal to the radar when it is painted. If you turn off the transponder, you are almost invisible. Once you get within a certain range, even a civilian radar will get a skin paint off of the aircraft. The problem is that that range is much smaller than the normal range.

Ok never knew that. I don't know much about planes you see heh.

[Hostile]

Actually the world got the tape of the terorist on board the plane beacuse they turned on what they thought was the intercom and was talking to the passengers when in accuality they were talking to the control tower. That's how BBC got the tape.

[Tom]

Ah, there we go then.

[Mastermind]

4. Planes took too long to be scrambled seems to me someone allowed the pentagon to be hit

There are no alert fighters at Andrews armed with air to air weaponry. F-16Cs got up a bit later, but they were too late because there was no call to get in the air, there was no ordnance around so they had to attach it from probably clear across the airfield (because at Andrews, ordnance is sealed up because it's Air Force One's home, and at the central nervous system of the country), and then fuel the fighters, and then have them take off after again verifying orders. The entire ordeal takes more than one hour. Planes do not take off like in Generals or RA2 where they always have unlimited fuel and seemingly take off instantaneously. Orders take a while to get down the chain of command.

PEOPLES LIVES WERE AT THREAT AND THEY WORRY ABOUT CHAIN OF COMMAND??! That is odd. If they know planes have been hijacked why will they worry about a chain of command to save people? Obviously because they didn't care as much as they made out. Your telling me they needed orders from a general or even George W who was reading about goats at a school to scramble planes at a moment where national security is at threat? I find it hard to believe, maybe its just me not having the military knowledge, sometimes i think i'm lucky i don't, from what i've seen it blinds your way of thinking logically.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You ALWAYS worry about chain of command. Do you really want some captain somewhere decided to scramble armed aircraft to shoot down a civilian airliner on his own? The military maintains a very rigid chain of command to attempt to ensure that you don't have a low ranking person going out and causing something like a war. It's a way to ensure that you know where everything is, and that you can always find someone in control with the proper authorization. Would you want someone in a missile silo to launch one off because they thought they heard something hit, and don't know exactly what is going on?

[Tom]

On that day dick cheney and the SS could see what the FAA was able to see on their radar screens, your telling me dick cheney couldn't have authorized it? I still can't understand why it took 38 minutes to authorize.

[Hostile]

Probably because it never happened before. If someone walked up to you and punched in the face, wouldn't it take alittle bit to realize what just happened?

[Tom]

Not 38 minutes but then again they lost contact with the plane that hit the pentagon so they didn't know it was going to happen. Explains it i guess.

[MSpencer]

You can be put in prison for disobeying the chain of command. Ask Hostile. It doesn't matter if you take off in a plane unannounced, ignoring everyone to save hundreds of people, you still stole a $43 million fighter, and you still disobeyed standing orders.

[Tom]

And thats wrong imo. Why should money be worth more than life? If those planes were shot down maybe 2500 people would have been saved that day.

[Hostile]

You can be put in prison for disobeying the chain of command. Ask Hostile. It doesn't matter if you take off in a plane unannounced, ignoring everyone to save hundreds of people, you still stole a $43 million fighter, and you still disobeyed standing orders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically they would throw you in a military prison with a medal on your jumpers. This isn't Hollywood. They don't fuck around...