1328 replies to this topic

[myster]

5. That would be a boring game, so I started exploring the individuality of each faction. The framework - each sub faction would have 1 sword/slash unit, 1 archer/pierce unit, 1 pike/specialist unit, 1 cavalry unit, 1 elite(archer or sword), and 1 toggle unit. The only difference that could be considered an advantage given this structure would be gaining 1 elite unit that you don't have. Sword if you are lorien or mirkwood, archer if you are rivendell. Thus a 3rd faction is really just for eye-candy. Sure the cavalry are slightly different, but it doesn't have an impact. So units-wise, they are roughly the same, and calling allies will give you a very slight supplement for the 2nd faction and virtually nothing except eye-candy for the 3rd. The adjustments/specializations of the faction are there, but are minor in the over-all picture. The units are put together with the faction as a whole in mind. Elves <> greater than all other factions.

so basicly limited, you wont get ALL units.. just the one said there(elite sword or elite archer), wich would still need backing up by your own units.. so you wont get an OP army... just a good supplement of your own army.

[Fyro11]

so basicly limited, you wont get ALL units.. just the one said there(elite sword or elite archer), wich would still need backing up by your own units.. so you wont get an OP army... just a good supplement of your own army.

Nah I think you misunderstood us; we're not arguing so you can only have ONE faction, rather you start off with one faction and can only choose one more.

[myster]

i think you misunderstood me.

[Fyro11]

I understand you want all 3. But it still can't be denied that boredom will kick in sooner. Not to the extent that I wouldn't play them ever again. If that was the case I wouldn't even be on this forum...

[dojob]

dojob, i dont think that your system would offer any benefits over the direction that the system is currently going. taking out spears for example leaves the player wide open to a cavalry attack for the first 10 minutes or so of the game until they have a chance to get some help from another faction.

You need to read my other posts since the one you responded to

[Myrdin]

Dojob s Blademaster ability activated

[Devon]

I understand you want all 3. But it still can't be denied that boredom will kick in sooner. Not to the extent that I wouldn't play them ever again. If that was the case I wouldn't even be on this forum...

Oh, yes it can be denied.

You're not gonna get every single unit from each of the subfactions you purchased, because really, only 2 of them will be better than your basic units, and only about 1 from the third subfaction. The main point of the third subfaction is to unlock elve's hero horde.

[mike_]

*grins like the Cheshire Cat*
But yeah...you won't face a problem of too many units at once. If you're dim enough to get the Mirkwood faction and invest in knife-masters over bowmen, then you desrve to get problems later on
Cheers,
-mike

[dojob]

But you need the knife fighters as a meatshield...

[robnkarla]

hmmm.....maybe you are all right....Let's just scratch Rivendell and Mirkwood, keep a couple of supplemental units that can be called for allies that you can only call a couple of them in. Sure would save me quite a bit of time.

Come on, people. Will there be unit overlap? Is there overlap between any of the other factions? Gee, it seems like all factions have a sword type unit. They must therefore all play the same and so I'm going to get bored with each faction I play, because they all use the same basic overall system......really?

The system will be worked on over and over to make it the most enjoyable it can be. How it stands right now is not how it will be once done. Nothing in the mod has ever worked that way, where once it's done it's done. Almost every things that has been changed (which is nearly everything) has been changed more than once. With each iteration the mod is refined and works/plays better. The elves will be no exception.

And this is not really even sub-factions. In terms of units/structures there are 3 factions in one. They all need to stand on their own, without the help of others so they cannot have complete holes in what they have (i.e. no pikes).

Robert J.

sorry, just trying cut through everything and understand. Not meaning to be rude to anyone, so please don't take it that way

Edited by robnkarla, 08 May 2008 - 10:57 PM.

[Fyro11]

That explanation is curiously satisfying; so you're not hearing a word from me on changing the subfactioning.

[mike_]

Becuase you're both saying the exact same thing.

[Scryer]

Like it was mentioned before, play it before you make any judgements on it. Which is why I've been quiet most of the time, during this whole fiasco.


Try thinking of this mod like a manuscript of a novel. Before a novel can be a bestseller, it has to be edited many times over. This is the way I've seen this mod as.

[robnkarla]

As far as removing it to just 2 subs, I'm really opposed to the idea, except it's just more work and possibility for bugs. (Really, it's just odd that having 2 out of the is more work )

But if as we are adjusting and seperating each faction from the other, if it becomes obvious that the 3rd faction would = OP then I would change it so that you would only get one. What I'm saying, I'm working like crazy just to get the content into the mod, in such a way that will allow for future customization that I'm still looking for time to review and adjust them to how I want them to be. I don't want to make huge adjustments until all units are in place so I don't have to make adjustments over and over again with each addition. So 2 more units and the units are all up for major changes. (Hehe, if anyone has a nice lorien spearmen or a nice elite sword unit for Rivendell I wouldn't say no )

The goal I think we all have - create a unique elven faction that brings the feeling of tolkien's elves to life that is the best we can make it. So keep the discussion going, exploration of ideas often can lead to a better understanding of what you have.

Robert J.

[myster]

i kinda see the rivendell swordmen with big shield(maybe like the warriors from rome, those big red shields??) and mythrill armor, kinda with the design of the noldor, but stylish. maybe a plume on their helmet?

[Fyro11]

Mythril is a creation of the Dwarves so I get the feeling there will be a resounding "no" from the team.

Sorry about digressing, but it's kinda applicable to the Elves as well, do you absolutely HAVE to call it 'Heavy Armour' with each faction. Like don't Rohan use chain mail so that's what you could call the upgrade: Chain Mail, or Ring Mail. Just a thought...

Edited by Fyro11, 09 May 2008 - 11:20 AM.

[myster]

if i remember mythril was used by both the dwarves from khazad-dum and by the elves of eriador(though in much less quantities due to heavy costs). From the same material mythril was forged, they also made the writings on the doors of khazad doom wich would only light up by moonlight.

so i think mythril would still be suited for elves.

[mike_]

Yes, "mithril" would be suited to the Elves of Rivendell...as a small design feature on the model skins. Not as an upgrade.
As has already been said, armour (specificallly, chainmail) made of mithril was extremely rare and valuable. Bilbo's small coat was a "kingly gift", even among the reckoning of the Dwarves. So a large, body-covering, complex suit of it would be out of the question.
As for Rivendell unit design, well, I for one picture them wearing the same armour of the Eldar that fought in the Last Alliance, though with certain elements missing for the standard troops (helmets, pauldrons, and the plate skirt) but retained for the higher ranking warriors, such as captains and banner-bearers. Maybe for their heavy armour upgrade the standard units could recieve those armour elements as well, removing the need for an alternate skin colouring.
I also like to think that they would feature brighter, richer, more elaborate robes and cloths than other Elves, being primarily Noldoli and all.
That's my opinion on the matter.
Cheers,
-mike

Edited by elfhelm.., 09 May 2008 - 09:15 PM.

[Vithar-133]

If anything, mithril would have been used by the elven kings and not soldiers, not even as a design element. I do like the idea of them having less armor, then with the Elven Armor upgrade (which is what it's called in game) they look like those from the LA, at least for rivendel.

Rivendel's colors should be darker golds, grays, silvers, and dark blues, with the exception of the leaders.

As for Rivendel swordmasters getting a sheild...maybe do something like the spearmen of the havens' sheilds, as they used that kind of design at the LA...and they are Elven, after all.

[Myrdin]

or


dont add a shield, then you will be not trouble with same looks of this elfs and the LA elfs