155 replies to this topic

[cr@zyiv@n]

The Germans were far ahead, they developed the recoilless gun as first!

But would both three factions win, or would Hitler go for sole world domination ?

[Andre27]

Nuclear energy and Nuclear devices (bombs) are two completly different things.

For what i've seen the germans could have made a dirty bomb (bomb which leaves radiation) but the design of the German A-bomb would hardly have been more potent than a Artillary shell. :/

[Allied General]

there were developing a dirty bomb, basically pack a load of uranium dust or something into a V2 rocket.

[Mig Eater]

No there was plans to use long range bombers on a one-way mission to drop the uranium dust on New York

[Andre27]

As most of you probably know dday will feature campaigns.
To let Germany, Italy or Japan win the war means creating an alternate timeline.
E.g. during the attack on Pearl Harbor the US carriers were destroyed.

Try to think of alternate timelines e.g. the outcome of a battle differs (Kurks, Sedan etc) and suggest HOW this would affect the war. (e.g. introduction of new vehicles)

Let your imagination go and try to offer us some plausible alternate timelines.

I'll offer 1 to start with... the Belgium Fortress Eben Emael wasn't captured by Geman paratroopers. As a result the fortress was able to inflict heavy damage on the advance of the German armor, slowing them down. As a result a WW2 trench warfare replaced the Blitzkrieg. French and British airforces were after recieving an initial blow able to hold the Luftwaffe at bay. French armor production was increased and after a serie of attacks the Germans were driven back towards their border.

Seeing the Gemans weakend Russia invades Poland in 1940 before the introduction of the T34 and KV-1.
Facing imminent defeat Hitler is overthrown and a German/French/British alliance is formed to stop the Soviet advance. Possibilies are e.g. Soviet BT-5 tanks vs. Char-B tanks

Now everyone let those brains get to work. :!:

[raminator]

what would have happend if spain joint the axis?
no access for the allies to the "mare nostrum"
what if spain would have would have attacked british colonies in africa
germany did´nt had to help italy in africa and could have conzentrated more on russia
what if pearl habbor never happend?
did anyboby here read "Vaterland"?
just short summary
peace between america and Germania (whole western and middel europe) still war between Germania and Russia

[Andre27]

Never read "Vaterland" However the topic of Spain brings up a few ideas.

What if the 2nd WW started with the Spanish Civil War instead with the German Invasion of Poland. Poland would have been given the time to build their armed forces and the german/soviet non-aggression pact would have never been signed since "volunteers" from both sides were already in a shooting war.

[trevor]

what if Hitler conquered the UK...

What if dday failed....

What if the allies agreed to that the Pacific was more Important than the European war...

[DaEm0NuL]

I think that the germans should have invaded britain and conquered after that they will invade russia but the battle of stalingrad would be a victory for the german (the encercelment was thin and the germans managed to breakthrough) after that d-day(1943) will be in england.After this hitler will be die in the plane explosion and Gobbles will be the new fuhrer.This will alternate the campings from russia and africa.Moscow will be captured so do stalingrad and leningrad the battle of kursk will not exist but another battle will be exactly the same but the name will be different(a more western town).This will be another victory for the germans because the introduce the maus earlier.Russian will reatreat somewhere to mongolia but they will stiil fight.The end will be then when they launch the new V3 weapon to the HQ of the russian foreing them to surrender.After this spain will join the axis and conqeur the gibraltar and from there all of africa.Germany will force Romania an Hungary to attack the turks.This lead to victory because spain unloaded some troops south of Turkey and encerclet ankara.Japan will ask for support that they will got but later (1945) .Germany with her europen allies will invade USA .First they will be repeld but the second wave will land in canada where they will set a large base.Argentina will declere war to USA.Argentina will be conquered by US but it will be to late because new york felt and after a super raid of bombers over washington USA will capitulate.
Japans attack over pearl harbour will be reapeld(7 dec 1941).China will invade japan with the support of the US and Australia troops.Germany will invade china (at the call of japan) but will fail .Then the second wave containig a devastating bombing from the v3 rockets will eradicate the well hold chinese,uk,us,australian positions.After this australia will be invaded from eastern conquered us and japan.This way the war will end.

[Andre27]

what if Hitler  conquered the UK...

What if dday failed....

What if the allies agreed to that the Pacific was more Important than the European war...

All nice ideas, but also try to think of alternative campaigns.

If dday failed, then the allies would move up through Italy. This would give way for various missions/ battles in the Italian/Austrian mountains.

Also an alternative dday would be launched in Southern france. This time the landings wouldn't be support landings for dday, but the main trust.

Pacific campaign more important than the European Campaign... hmmm, have to give this some thought on how this would affect the war.

To DaEm0NuL:
Interesting timeline. Kind of hard to read with that layout, but interesting timeline.

[8doczzz1]

The German-Soviet pact remains strong, and the two countries become allies... Russia and Japan (never friends in the first place...) declare war. This pulls pressure away from US forces in the Pacific-

-This also allows Germany to concentrate its forces in W Europe on N Africa, not having to worry about the Eastern front at all.

This could force Japan out of the war entirely, as they are unable to compete against both sides. Or perhaps they get friendly with the US...

Either way, there are far more resources on both sides to be thrown into the grinder of France and the rest of W Europe.

[trevor]

what if Hitler  conquered the UK...

What if dday failed....

What if the allies agreed to that the Pacific was more Important than the European war...

All nice ideas, but also try to think of alternative campaigns.

If dday failed, then the allies would move up through Italy. This would give way for various missions/ battles in the Italian/Austrian mountains.

Also an alternative dday would be launched in Southern france. This time the landings wouldn't be support landings for dday, but the main trust.

Pacific campaign more important than the European Campaign... hmmm, have to give this some thought on how this would affect the war.

To DaEm0NuL:
Interesting timeline. Kind of hard to read with that layout, but interesting timeline.

It is simple in ways. When USA was put into the war allies agreed to that the European War was more important. If it was the Pacific chosen as the more important one, hitler would have advanced in N. Afrika and woudl have won. Britian would have had major losses.. And by the time they dicided to switch to Europe it woudl have been extremely difficult to take Afrika from Germany, and a Plan to invade britian would have been ready. All of this before the invasion of Russia.

[Major_Gilbear]

what would have happend if spain joint the axis?

what if spain would have would have attacked british colonies in africa
germany did´nt had to help italy in africa and could have conzentrated more on russia

Spain wouild have ceased to exist if it had joined in. The civil war which wracked it finished in 1939, and thanks to Franco's facist connections, managed to survive the starvation of the population that loomed.

Spain's military is, and has been this last century, feeble. Partly, this is due to the lack of participation in the World wars which spurred other nations to develop thier military hardware.

The Luftwaffe, after the bombing of Guernica, showed its fighting prowess off to the rest of the world... At the beginning of WW2, the Germans had the most experienced, as well as the 'best' airforce in the world. Attrition and other problems soon saw to that though. This is one of the reasons the Luftwaffe were feared atthe outbreak of the war though...

Franco was ordered into Africa to put down the forces there that his predecessors hadn't managed to do. He was frighteningly successful. Whilst he was in Africa, the Civil War broke out. When Franco heard, he made full speed back to Spain, and was confronted by the Socialist forces.
Both sides comitted atrocities, and were in many ways as bad as each other.
Franco's superior military tactics began to show, and with support from fascist nations (German tanks and war material, Argentinian food, etc), he set about taking Spain back. His tactic of distributing large quantities of bread to the starved populations of the cities he took became known as 'El pan blanco de Franco'.

Whilst Franco may not be the best thing, for Spain at the time I think he was, given the other choices and the benefit of hindsight. He had support from Capitalist nations, which helped the economy. He gave Spain a political stability that it had lacked for a long time. He set up many of the organisations for the disabled, and most of the current social benefits structure.
Had the Socialists won, I doubt the Soviet Union would have been much help to Spain, and what with its collapse, I think Spain would have been in a very poor state by now.

The events in Spain were (a small) part of what fuelled the Germans in the pre-war buildup, fearing as they did political instability, Communism, and civil war. What happened in Spain, was what people feared would happen in Germany. The intervention of Hitler in Spain showed that he was a stong leader, etc, and did it's bit to empower the Nazis.

It might be interesting to see the first missions for the Germans and the Russians to be set in Spain.

The Germans could bomb Guernica, a bit like that first Soviet mission in RA1?

The missions might also give you some early tanks, and ask you to help each of the sides in a particular battle...?

The Socialist forces had T-26s and BA-64s (maybe have a few BT-5s?). The Facist forces had Pz1s, Pz2s and could maybe have a few 38(t)s?



Whilst I have tried to give you a small flavour of what happened, I'm not about to recount the entire Civil War - There are many things I left out (obviously). However, even if a nation didn't participate in a major way in the war, all of Europe contributed. Since this is a World War, I think it would be cool to fight in other countries. Also, if the Campaigns go past 1945, then they can start earlier too? Before the invasion of Poland?

Just some thoughts anyway, see what you all think.

[Mig Eater]

About the only thing they could have helped with was giving Germany ports to use on the Spanish cost. Other then that cannon fodder for the Allies...

[Major_Gilbear]

Spain had almost no resources left at the end of the Civil War, and barely managed to feed itself. It had little/no war material worth a damn. If they had joined the Axis, thay would have fared much worse, as they would have had to help out in a war effort that they couldn't afford. Manpower wasn't such a critical resource for the Axis in North Africa really, and that is all I could see Spain contributing... Sorry :yawn:

[Allied General]

what about if Hiroshima and Nagaski hadn't been nuked? I.e. the manhattan project people made sured it failed due to the fears of nuclear holocaust... Invasion of Japan.. a D-Day style landing in the Pacific?

[Andre27]

Iwo Jima is perhaps interesting to include. I'll have to give it a little more thought on how a plausable alternative timeline can go for the war in the pacific.

[Rygar]

This is my contribute for an alternative history: http://www.comandosu...wforum.php?f=12

[pointy]

Maybe the assualt on Normandy fails?


how about Germany actually took eastern Russia?

[Mig Eater]

Try to keep things closer to the real time line

My ideas are:

1) Spain joins Axis
2) They win the battle of North Africa
3) The battle for Stalingrad & Moscow is won
4) D-day fails
5) The second battle of Britain is won
6) East Russia beaten
7) Brazil/Argentina joins Axis
8) European Axis forces are sent to South America to invade the USA
9) Axis invasion of USA ends with A-bomb’s dropped on New York & Washington (1951/2)