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Realism is MISSING


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#21 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 08:37 PM

Archers with greater RELOAD time

Tell me that's... Oh wait, my bad. I misunderstood. :p
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#22 CTLN7

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 08:44 PM

guy who knows to command archers beats the shit out of a someone who dosent know how to command cav ,is that so hard to understand ?

#23 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 08:51 PM

Oh go to hell. I know how to command cav you jackass.
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#24 Devon

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:47 PM

Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.

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#25 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:52 PM

HEROES Not greatly stronger ...just within reason
Fact : In the BIBLE King David had men who could kill 30 men in battle ....

Aragorn should be able to Kill at least 5 Weak Hordes before dying
This will vary as to the type of horde ...
Orcs ...weak
Haradrim ...Strong
Wargs ... Strong

WRT Archers I mean greatly increase their reload time as they seem to have
arrow machine guns ..They should therefore actually get off fewer rounds
say even 1 per 30 sec or 1 per min ..

So even an army of Archers will get off a first round volley as they are long range units
Then get decimated by say soldiers before getting off another round ...
So they will need protection from other Melee units....

Infantry +WeaponDamage -Speed -AttackRange +Armour || WEAK against Heroes

Archers -WeaponDamage -Speed +AttackRange -Armour || WEAK against Cavalry

Cavalry +WeaponDamage +Speed -AttackRange +Armour || WEAK against Pikes

Pikes +WeaponDamage -Speed -AttackRange +Armour || WEAK against Archers/Heroes

===================================
If a type is dominating the game eg usually the archers them MAKE SURE
CAVALRY Kills them easily..same goes with Cavalry VS pikes

Usually a player wants lots of Cavalry and Archers so make it that pikes and Infantry
are neccesary

Balance is possible especially with Cost of building / Units / Upgrades
The Fire Arrows are expensive .The armoury is very $$ .

=========================================

If you think heroes are too strong then match them with Trolls Attack Damage etc

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 10:38 PM.


#26 CTLN7

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:53 PM

hey what my eyes see is that + attack range ?

#27 dojob

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:54 PM

Rofl, I saw the last post was Ringy's, thought "alright he's probably coming in here to ctln bash", and look how right I was :xcahik_: This has gotten old tbh...

Not if you decrease their radius and make walls stronger
I usually give just enough starting money to build a good Defensive Perimeter
so once the compound goes up you are safe until you decide to build a gate
to get out and attack !

The farms stay within the compound !

No one can RUSH YOU except with the Flying units or the Palintir Powers
and then you just create archers or towers for protection

The walls were just too weak IMO !

But then again I have never USED Rush Tactics....
I usually attack when I am Maxed out CP and Unit Upgrades


=========
Another Suggestion :

I made the Fortress REALLY STRONG 200000 HP
So that even a full army takes 5 min to destroy

AND I allow ONE TYPE of unit built at each Fortress
so that even if ALL your buildings are Destroyed and heroes are dead
you still have a fighting chance with Fortress units ...

The fortress is usually $ 30000 so any one will take a good while getting
another and so you usually just PROTECT THE ONE YOU HAVE !


To put it simply, no. Rushing is an important part of gameplay and needs to stay :p

Edited by dojob, 31 August 2009 - 11:03 PM.

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And please add Bear-mans


#28 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:55 PM

hey what my eyes see is that + attack range ?

+ Attack Range mean their attack range is great
Its their advantage .. you get the picture ..its just a comparison

WRT RUSH Tactics

You give the player the option of BOTH

Eg RUSH in with a huge army but no resourses to build your own Defences
as A Wall hub is like $1000 1000000HP (near indestrutable) EXCEPT THE GATE
and the walls is like $500 but Siege Destroys


OR the other guy builds a nice Well protected Base in the same time and money
But have like 2 heroes and 3 hordes

Again realistically archers ,Swordmen and cavalry NEVER does enough damage
to get Castle Walls Down . Once walls go up THEY STAY UP !...until siege weapons
With long reload times and miss weapon fire

============================
I apologise for my Loooong Posts :p
ON the Topic :
IMO BOTH Realism and Balance can be achieved
You /We just need to think it through to make it FUN GAMEPLAY

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 10:36 PM.


#29 Devon

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 10:37 PM

Walls are currently not targetable by infantry, so if you throw some up the enemy won't be able to get in without some kind of siege.

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#30 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 10:45 PM

Walls are currently not targetable by infantry, so if you throw some up the enemy won't be able to get in without some kind of siege.

Good one !
I think EA did a fair amount of balancing except with Walls, Siege Reload and miss Fire ,
Arrow reload times and building HP .
and Heroes needed just a little more HP .

A Good way to test Balance is to play a BRUTAL COMP (or 3) ..
They send in streams of units so you must Defend before
you have an army to give it to them ...

Then you decide if you want your castle with more HP etc
But for every increase you BALANCE something eg COST

WRT TrebSpam : Don't the Cavalry rush the slow / weak siege weapons ??
And with say CP Limit of 500 you only get about 5 Siege before you are at MAX
So if TrebSpam is a problem ..Just find a solution ! :p

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 11:03 PM.


#31 dojob

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:03 PM

hey what my eyes see is that + attack range ?

+ Attack Range mean their attack range is great
Its their advantage .. you get the picture ..its just a comparison

WRT RUSH Tactics

You give the player the option of BOTH

Eg RUSH in with a huge army but no resourses to build your own Defences
as A Wall hub is like $1000 1000000HP (near indestrutable) EXCEPT THE GATE
and the walls is like $500 but Siege Destroys


OR the other guy builds a nice Well protected Base in the same time and money
But have like 2 heroes and 3 hordes

Again realistically archers ,Swordmen and cavalry NEVER does enough damage
to get Castle Walls Down . Once walls go up THEY STAY UP !...until siege weapons
With long reload times and miss weapon fire

============================
I apologise for my Loooong Posts :p
ON the Topic :
IMO BOTH Realism and Balance can be achieved
You /We just need to think it through to make it FUN GAMEPLAY


The thing about rushing is that u don't do it with a big army; what makes "rushing" rushing is building a small force and attacking quickly, often ignoring enemy units and taking down precious farms to disrupt the flow of money.

The game shouldn't be so "either, or", imo; people should have to mix between rushing and defending, which is what I do, and it should be up to the player to balance their offensive and defensive capabilities while rewarding aggressive play; if a person never attacks and sits around building up, then their opponent should be able to build farms everywhere without much trouble, gain more money because of that, build up a stronger army, and then win. Walls are fine as they are tbh, blocking raiders while still being vulnerable to a dedicated siege attack and leaving room for flexibility in the odd case where walls are used in the early game. With the cost-increases u have in mind, people may not want to buy walls because then they'll have less money for units that can move around and fight in more than 1 place.

Edited by dojob, 31 August 2009 - 11:05 PM.

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And please add Bear-mans


#32 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

I actually agree with you DOJOB ...
I was just giving EXTREMES of both gameplay styles
In a real game you actually do both ...

WRT the walls , Having a long wall is no good if one missing segment means your base is compromised
and the Hubs should higher HP and so Higher Cost .
To decide on IF to use walls should be a strategic advantage for who has it
But it must be also useful . Basically once Built THEY STAY BUILT until the trebs come ...
IMO : Rebuilding useless weak walls / segments was irritating ! :p

For an example of a Strategy game with Good Balance try Age of Empires 1 or 2
The balance is so good that the game gets BORING ! :xcahik_:
Like a Flight Sim VS Star Wars Rogue Leader ! :crazed:

But with BFME2 or ROTWK the gameplay is made fun with POWERS and HEROES ! :crazed:
So just slightly tweak the problem areas ...
Archers / Trebs / Hero HP / Building Costs and HP / Walls

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 11:32 PM.


#33 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:30 PM

And MAYBE archer damage or Upgrade costs imo. :p
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#34 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:38 PM

Exactly :good:
If there is a problem with a unit Spamming or being Useless then Change something !
Archers -too good | Defeated by Cavalry
Cavalry - Too Good | Defeated by Pikes
Pikes - Too Boring | Needed against Cavalry
Infantry - Too Plain | SPAM IT
Trebs - Too Deadly | Make them Costly and high CP or limit Amt Allowed | Taken out by Fast Cavalry / Nazguls
Wall - Weak Cheap and Basically useless | Now High Protection and Cost Value
But limit amt of hubs allowed for a limit compound size eg 10 WallHub Max
is a good compound size . | Seige OWNS

Everybody LOVES ARCHERS and CAVALRY so give them a weakness :shiftee2:
Everybody hates pikes and infantry so make them NEEDED or you are defeated !

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 11:43 PM.


#35 dojob

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:43 PM

I actually agree with you DOJOB ...
I was just giving EXTREMES of both gameplay styles
In a real game you actually do both ...

WRT the walls , Having a long wall is no good if one missing segment means your base is compromised
and the Hubs should higher HP and so Higher Cost .
To decide on IF to use walls should be a strategic advantage for who has it
But it must be also useful . Basically once Built THEY STAY BUILT until the trebs come ...
IMO : Rebuilding useless weak walls / segments was irritating ! :shiftee2:

For an example of a Strategy game with Good Balance try Age of Empires 1 or 2
The balance is so good that the game gets BORING ! :good:
Like a Flight Sim VS Star Wars Rogue Leader ! :crazed:

But with BFME2 or ROTWK the gameplay is made fun with POWERS and HEROES ! :good:
So just slightly tweak the problem areas ...
Archers / Trebs / Hero HP / Building Costs and HP / Walls


But no matter what happens, if a good treb force comes by and hammers a segment down ur fucked, so as far as holding units out and being defeated by siege weapons, walls are already fine as they are, but if they cost more, then its even more of a hassle to rebuild.
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And please add Bear-mans


#36 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:46 PM

YEAH! And a major decrease to Bombard range, oh wait, it's gonna be shortened. :shiftee2: But other than that, it's great.
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#37 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:49 PM

But no matter what happens, if a good treb force comes by and hammers a segment down ur fucked, so as far as holding units out and being defeated by siege weapons, walls are already fine as they are, but if they cost more, then its even more of a hassle to rebuild.

This is a problem so we find a solution
Let them Hammer your Walls But not The SEGMENTS !
The segments last Forever unless you unbuild

WRT rebuilding you only rebuild the broken segment or two which is not so Costly

So again once they go up they stay up !

You get attacked through your WEAK gate !

A good Treb Force !!?? Then make it so no one has this ..
The treb will be costly ,with high CP and a limited amount

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 31 August 2009 - 11:54 PM.


#38 Devon

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:54 PM

A Good way to test Balance is to play a BRUTAL COMP (or 3) ..
They send in streams of units so you must Defend before
you have an army to give it to them ...



That's a terrible idea :shiftee2: One brutal is very difficult to take out by itself, they're meant to be quite a challenge. Play hards instead.

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#39 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:56 PM

True ! :shiftee2:
WRT : Realism Ive tagged Hours behind my mod trying to perfect the Balance
Which in turn makes it more REAL ...

For every annoying UNREAL Gameplay Flaw there is a solution
as remember there are alot of variables to each unit

Cost , CP , Health , Max number , Weapon Range , Reload times and accuracy ,
Re-Heal Ability , Armour , Strong against vs weak against ect

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 01 September 2009 - 12:05 AM.


#40 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:04 AM

And it's called a "hidden" (I forgot the real name :shiftee2: ) gate. It's built into the walls. And since it's integrated into the wall, is it indestructible? :good:
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