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Realism is MISSING


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#41 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:08 AM

And it's called a "hidden" (I forgot the real name :shiftee2: ) gate. It's built into the walls. And since it's integrated into the wall, is it indestructible? :good:

The walls are not indestructable only the Hubs
One wall segment is an open Base so You need say 5 Trebs that will
take 1 min or so ...By that time you can take them out ... So your attacker Defend them with the
Melee and Archer units

Remember even in real you don't Destroy ALL the walls / Segments
You only need to breach the perimeter and then go straight for the Fortress

So you make it so this does not happen ...
If you Rush in You may get the Fortress Down to 1/4 Health using a full army
But are owned by the other player's army and their Tower Defence .

You stay out side the compound learing the enemy out with your constant Bombardment
Then the fighting Begins !

=================

Wall Balance was always a problem so I :

Increased Hub Health to infinite | but limit max allowed increased costs $1000
This makes a 10 segment compound cost the same as a Fortress $20000

The walls are $500 and weaker against Siege

The starting money is $20000 for each faction

You can
1. Build a New fortress and be broke
2. Build all your heroes and be broke
3. Build a good walled Compound and be Broke
4. Build a fully upgraded army and be broke

or any combination of the above ! (so mix and match )

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 01 September 2009 - 12:29 AM.


#42 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:14 AM

Huh. Please clarify in post next time. :shiftee2:
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#43 dojob

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 02:50 PM

But these are just simple walls and not the big walkable walls. The regular segments shouldn't be that strong, but if u wanna real siege then u should go on RJ/BFME1-style maps or fortress maps.
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And please add Bear-mans


#44 Devon

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:24 PM

With 20,000 starting money, one person rushes the witch king or drogoth and the other players are screwed :p

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#45 CTLN7

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:44 PM

i think this thread is pointless , i got a feeling that by the time rob gets back or the ce will start they will forget about this discussion

#46 Devon

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:00 PM

Then don't post here.

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#47 Dalf32

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 10:21 PM

well with that attitude we should just abandon the entire forum now shouldnt we?
thats the wrong way to go about things my friend

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#48 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 11:25 PM

With 20,000 starting money, one person rushes the witch king or drogoth and the other players are screwed :p

Drogoth Costs $10000
Remember I made the Fortress Really Strong to justify the Costs
and they spawn hordes of the Elite Tropps

Men - Archers
Isengard - Uruks
Elves - Mirk's
Dwarves - Axe Throwers

5 troops costing $500 each will take out the Flyers and then
Drogoth rebuild is much more !!so you actually have an advantage when
Drogoth's Dead .The other Guy is near Broke and now its your turn to rush ...

======================
Problem : Drogoth , WK dominate the game
Solution : They are costly and does have an achilles heal - Archers / Arrow Towers (or both )

Drogoth's FireBall IS Deadly so you make the Dormitory a save haven against air attacks
The Dorm is cheap and very strong except against Siege


What I mean is clearly Drogoth and WK are powerful Flyers so again
you Balance with weak against arrows or increased Buildtime and Build cost ..


==============================
And $20000 Start Money may sound like much
but not when the Armoury costs $10000 and a hero $5000
Everybody wants to upgrade to get the good stuff so you make this only possible with a stable economy which occurs
after a 30 min of gameplay

==========================
For every OUT OF BALANCE unit you FORCE balance with other attributes / Units

==============================

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 01 September 2009 - 11:46 PM.


#49 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 12:15 AM

But these are just simple walls and not the big walkable walls. The regular segments shouldn't be that strong, but if u wanna real siege then u should go on RJ/BFME1-style maps or fortress maps.

Again ...The Walls are not strong against SIEGE ...
But they do effectively keep everyone else out ....
When you hear ..'They are attacking the Walls' you see if they got siege ..
If not you relax and continue building an army inside the compound ..
If you see siege they you have about 30sec before they break a segment so you rush out to get the Catapults

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 02 September 2009 - 12:18 AM.


#50 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 12:15 AM

No to making archers stronger. SOME PEOPLE (Looks at CTLN) can make an army on archers, upgrade them, and utterly own ALL ARMIES INCLUDING MASSED CAVALRY. MASSED CAVALRY. THE ONE THING THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE OUT MASSED ARCHERS.

upgraded ranged units ALWAYS have the advantage over melee and possibly heroes also Numbers count


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#51 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 12:17 AM

Really? Even when the number of cav outnumber the archers nearly 2 to 1? Really?
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#52 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 12:21 AM

No to making archers stronger. SOME PEOPLE (Looks at CTLN) can make an army on archers, upgrade them, and utterly own ALL ARMIES INCLUDING MASSED CAVALRY. MASSED CAVALRY. THE ONE THING THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE OUT MASSED ARCHERS.

upgraded ranged units ALWAYS have the advantage over melee and possibly heroes also Numbers count

LOL I love this Discussion ... :p

The topic should be like :
PROBLEM : Archers upgraded Kills everything
Solution : Except Upgraded Cavalry ...

#53 Dant

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:29 AM

Another solution:Monster unit,Heroes,Heavy infantry. :w00t:
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#54 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 10:34 AM

Another solution:Monster unit,Heroes,Heavy infantry. :w00t:

BINGO... ;)
Heavy Armour ...Significantly increases a units armour

And as a RULE Cavalry Trumps the Foot-Soldiers No matter what ..(Except for Pikes)...

#55 Dant

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 11:37 AM

I alway find out Cavalry tramped on my Pikeman..but it still turn into disater for Cavalry. :w00t:
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#56 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 01:06 PM

Its somehow EA's messed up way for making it balanced.I don''t know really.
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#57 Githiran

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 01:29 PM

I think that, ultimately, for balance to be achieved there has to be a way to balance both offence and defence through each of the game stages per faction, against each faction. For example, how to stop early game rushes vs. each of the different factions. So, if it was men vs. elves, and elves for with glorfindel and 2 battalions of lorien swordsmen, and men attacked with boromir and 2 battalions of gondor soldiers, then the fight should turn out pretty even (depending on how powers were used, plus the costs are quite close so theres no reason why it shouldn't).

Above was just an example, but IMO if two same costing units of the same class are fighting, it should turn out a close match. I think one of the most ridiculous i have heard of is that it takes 2 battalions of lorien archers to take out 1 battalion of orc archers, when, realistically, a single lorien archer should take out plenty of orcs on his own.
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#58 Dalf32

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:40 PM

not if he get shot...

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#59 Devon

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:45 PM

No to making archers stronger. SOME PEOPLE (Looks at CTLN) can make an army on archers, upgrade them, and utterly own ALL ARMIES INCLUDING MASSED CAVALRY. MASSED CAVALRY. THE ONE THING THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE OUT MASSED ARCHERS.

upgraded ranged units ALWAYS have the advantage over melee and possibly heroes also Numbers count


Maybe, but that's not how it's supposed to be.

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#60 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 12:46 AM

Above was just an example, but IMO if two same costing units of the same class are fighting, it should turn out a close match. I think one of the most ridiculous i have heard of is that it takes 2 battalions of lorien archers to take out 1 battalion of orc archers, when, realistically, a single lorien archer should take out plenty of orcs on his own.

True : Really one Elven Archer Horde = 5 Orc Archers Horde = 2 Men Archers Horde = 2 Isengard
But you modify Buildcost and make the Orcs a Bit Spammy and Cheap .

The Mordor Faction has this :
Weak FootSoldiers = Orcs = Spam
Medium Foot Soldiers = Costly to upgrade
Monsters = Their Trump Card = Takes out 5 Hordes but are costly !

The elves have = Best Ranged units = very costly
Other units = Costly to upgrade
Make infantry cheap and spammy

The men have = Tons of heroes
Best Cavalry = Expensive
Make infantry Spammy

The Dwarves have = Best Towers / Strongest Buildings ... Make it so
Make Guardians Spammy

==============================================
The units THAT SHOULD BE WEAK you make them a bit Spammy :w00t:
The units that Should be Strong you make them Costly
The boring units no-one really Builds eg Spiderlings / weak infantry make them Spammy
The UBER units that everyone likes eg Rohirrim , Berserker , Trolls , Mirkwood Archers = Costly

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 03 September 2009 - 12:47 AM.





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