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MO3.0 Feedback // BALANCING


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#41 Oktavia

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:23 PM

But they do care about tanks.

Tier 3 ones, maybe.

And a simple wall is able to stop any Borillo from doing anything to your structures, since they can't burn through them. You can also deny them entrance to your base even from water if you wall there.

This reminded me about Pre-Firestorm TS argument regarding underground transport vs. paving base. You could pave all of your base, sure, but building transport required way less hassle and didn't gimp your building queue. RA2 isn't that bad in this regard, but still walling all base requires too much autism and way more attention than it should.



#42 Allied Commander ???

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:36 AM

My rookie Norio was shot down by one rookie flak trooper ? isn't it tough, like what the hero spotlight says ?
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#43 GameMaster0000

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:35 AM

My rookie Norio was shot down by one rookie flak trooper ? isn't it tough, like what the hero spotlight says ?

 

My Norio can kill most T1 infantry in 2-3 second for each one, I wonder that how can ypu lose on single Flak Trooper

 

Does T3 Defense do too less DMG on infantry? IMO T3 is not worth to use compare to T1 and T2 Defense



#44 Petya

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:07 PM

My suggestion is to let the Drakuv at least heal T2Infantry aswell. Letting it heal only Conscripts and Flaktroopers makes this thing quite pointless because you cant really do much damage with those anyway since they are throw away units. 

Id love to have an option to heal my teslatroopers ya know ;)

You can take control over enemy infantry permanently. Also Drakuv is a very fast, well-armored transport with lots of passenger slots and you can do infantry based rush assaults with them.



#45 Petya

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:08 PM

My rookie Norio was shot down by one rookie flak trooper ? isn't it tough, like what the hero spotlight says ?

Impossible. One rookie flak trooper can't take down Norio alone.



#46 mevitar

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:23 PM

Does T3 Defense do too less DMG on infantry? IMO T3 is not worth to use compare to T1 and T2 Defense

T3 defenses are anti vehicle (with exception of T3 heavy tanks and all stuff with heavy armor), especially against tight groups. They don't work well against anything else.
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#47 Hecthor Doomhammer

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:37 PM

 

Does T3 Defense do too less DMG on infantry? IMO T3 is not worth to use compare to T1 and T2 Defense

 

I had, in the LC beta a Grand Cannon that needed 22 shots on an Eradicator to kill it


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#48 Petya

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:49 PM

T3 defenses are anti-T1 and T2 tank mostly.



#49 WhiteDragon25

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:00 PM

Let me throw my two cents in: Fuck Headquarters.

 

In every match I've played so far as Russia, I've always consistently lost against fucking Epsilon HQ. No matter what I try, it is impossible to even lay a scratch on them.

 

Shadow Tanks make it impossible to scout and expand safely, killing any infantry and tanks with ease, forcing me to hole up in my base out of fear.

 

By the time I get Wolfhounds to deal with those Shadow Tanks, there's a fucking hoard of HQ infantry, tanks, and aircraft right at my doorstep.

 

The Basilisks are a pain in the ass on their own, but can be dealt with by Soviet flak units, but when combined with the Colossus and Stalker, they are impossible to shoot down.

 

The Colossus is my biggest gripe with HQ; they annihilate ground units with impunity, defenses don't have the range to touch them (and the fucking Basilisks destroy them if they do have the range), and the AA mode is fucking overpowered - being able to deploy/undeploy in an instant and annihilates Wolfhounds (the only dedicated heavy-AA unit the Russians have) - but all of this can be forgiven... if it wasn't for the fact that their movement speed is too fucking fast for a unit that size!

 

Oh, but the last issue I have with Headquarters is with the Irkalla: All of the above I can deal with, given enough tanks and flak, but with the Irkalla covering all of the above, it becomes impossible. The Colossus covers the air and ground, the Stalkers prevent anything from getting into range of the Colossus, the Basilisks rain hellfire from afar under the safety of the Colossus, the Irkalla makes any attempt at taking out any of them impossible, and the Shadow Tanks secure early-game dominance and late-game mopping up by making scouting and expanding a terrifying prospect and full retreat a death sentence.

 

Absolutely nothing the Russians have can defeat HQ mid-to-late game, and an early game victory against them is only possible under absurdedly speedy micromanagement - which is can only be done by only the most skilled players, which the vast majority of players probably aren't (myself included).


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#50 Hecthor Doomhammer

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:53 PM

Well, as you saw in that game where I was HQ, most damage to your base was done with the Basilisks, which are all round Epsilon, so it wouldn't have mattered it I was PC, SC or HQ, I still would've used them. 

 

Yes, I actually tried using my Shadow Tanks to block off ground unit production from your WF (idk if it was successful because the next time I checked, you already had some Wolfies in the air.

 

That small group of Stalker I used, was just to harass you a little bit but your Wolfies, once again, took quick care of them. Same with that group of Brutes, but all were single uniit type groups. I didn't have enough mass during your desperation attempt where you sent in everything you had, but you could have beaten me, but I guess my unts were just a little bit faster to that last standing Battle Bunker.

 

That Irkalla of mine was used properly, TO DEFEND my remaining base

 

I admit I am not the most professional HQ player and I just tried out a few small things on you, but 1 thing I did notice, is that you were relying solely on Nuclear Power Plants lategame (selling your Tesla Reactors) which really cost you the match when my Basilisks came in.

 

Having 50 Wolfhounds in the air would also be considered OP, just like having a lot of Scuds; Each subfaction has their own strengths and weaknesses and you just got to learn how to properly take advantage of those weaknesses when you get a chance.

 

Like that other match, where I was Russia for instance. No need for T3 at all


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#51 D.Destiny

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:29 AM

Yunru is the weakest heroine that i have ever seen.

I don't think anyone will spend $1500 to train her. It takes too much time and money to train her in the game.

 

Firstly, earthquake This is the most useless skill that i have ever seen in PC games. I have found this skill is only used to damage the buildings. It is vulnerable to against soldiers(No Damage Deals ON Them) and vehicles.  The range of the earthquake is too short and too close. She is a scientist, why she has to be get close to the buildings to create an earthquake? If I am the opponent of the player who uses Yunru, I will definitely spend $150 to train a attack dog and kill her immediately before she gets into my base. Why Shouldn't you change the earthquake into long range?I hope this skill will be changed in the next incoming version.

 

Secondary, too vulnerable. She is not fit for T3 technology and $1500 in the game. Look at Tanya and Libra, They are much stronger and useful that her. What is Yunru's skill?Stop the movement of the vehicles? I have tested her skill in the game. She deals no damage on the vehicles but to stop their movement for a few second.WHO NEEDS HER TO STOP THE VEHICLES? I can train some spiders instead.Spider only cost $500. Even a spider can deal some damages to the infantry and tanks. She can't even resist the attack from an attack dog.A $60 conscript can kill her as well. Why should I train her?

 

inally, 2 slots in centurion? Are you kidding me? EVEN a guy who costs me $2500(I can not remember his name)only takes one spot. WHY YUNRU TAKES TWO SLOTS IN CENTURION? THE 3 SLOTS IN CENTURION are really valuable and she takes two of them. Is that fair? 

I hope the author of the game can read my comment and consider about the change on her.

I hope the game will become better in the future



#52 LordCesare

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:56 AM

well, the has a huge big Jamming gun, and she has a long range.

Keep her behind your main army or inside the Centurion, streams and some players uses her in various good ways. China is all firepower, she jam stuff, the army destroy it.


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#53 Atomic_Noodles

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:01 AM

She has the longest EMP Duration on a weapon.

 

She's a little girl wearing a Exoskeleton that basically doubles her body size not to mention her Earthbreaker (So she's technically occupying 2 spaces for infantry)

 

Tanya & Libra have different uses as Commando's. Your comparing a Support Type Commando to a Stealth & Assault Type.


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#54 WhiteDragon25

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:32 AM

Well, as you saw in that game where I was HQ, most damage to your base was done with the Basilisks, which are all round Epsilon, so it wouldn't have mattered it I was PC, SC or HQ, I still would've used them. 

 

Yes, I actually tried using my Shadow Tanks to block off ground unit production from your WF (idk if it was successful because the next time I checked, you already had some Wolfies in the air.

 

That small group of Stalker I used, was just to harass you a little bit but your Wolfies, once again, took quick care of them. Same with that group of Brutes, but all were single uniit type groups. I didn't have enough mass during your desperation attempt where you sent in everything you had, but you could have beaten me, but I guess my unts were just a little bit faster to that last standing Battle Bunker.

 

That Irkalla of mine was used properly, TO DEFEND my remaining base

 

I admit I am not the most professional HQ player and I just tried out a few small things on you, but 1 thing I did notice, is that you were relying solely on Nuclear Power Plants lategame (selling your Tesla Reactors) which really cost you the match when my Basilisks came in.

 

Having 50 Wolfhounds in the air would also be considered OP, just like having a lot of Scuds; Each subfaction has their own strengths and weaknesses and you just got to learn how to properly take advantage of those weaknesses when you get a chance.

 

Like that other match, where I was Russia for instance. No need for T3 at all

 

1. The Basilisks alone could be handled, and it was only via my lack of foresight that they managed to do as much damage as they did. My point was that they can be dealt with on their own, but when combined with HQ, they become much, much more deadly.

 

2. Those Shadow Tanks did indeed block my WF's production, and forced me to use the Wolfhounds to deal with them (the Wolfhounds, unfortunately, can't detect stealth). The problem I had with them, though, is that it is so easy to get a hoard of them and then just park them a little ways outside of your opponent's base, and then letting him try to scout or expand, before ambushing him thus forcing him to hole up in his base. As with the Basilisks, they can be dealt with given time, Wolfhounds, and a lot of dead troops to flush them out, but together with the rest of HQ? Exploration becomes impossible, and full retreat just results in dead man walking.

 

3. The Driller/Stalker combination is painful on its own, but can be dealt with (albeit not before a lot of damage has been done). The problem is that combined with the Cloning Vats, they can be spammed easily, and then paired up with the Colossus, Shadow Tanks, and Basilisks. Stalkers alone are not the problem; it's their ridiculous synergy with the rest of HQ.

 

4. The Colossus I went into great detail why they are so damn overpowered: absolutely nothing I send at them seems to land a single hit on them. Absolutely destructive and overpowered on its own, but with everything else the HQ has? 

 

5. The issue I have with the Irkalla is when it's used to escort a massive force of Colossus, Stalkers, Shadow Tanks, and Basilisks; defending a base is different from providing covering fire support. In every match I've had against HQ, the Irkalla was used in that fashion.

 

6. Nuclear Power Plants I find more useful than Tesla Reactors, since they provide far more power than a Tesla does, and easier to wall in and defend against spies. Having Tesla Reactors lying around my base renders it vulnerable to sabotage.

 

6. Having overwelming numbers of any unit is ridiculous in any case, but can be beaten when properly dug-in (those Wolfhounds, for example? Copious amounts of flak. The flak may all die in the end, and the base wrecked, but all dead Wolfhounds in the end). The problem is that the same situation doesn't work in reverse: using 50 Wolfhounds to defend a base from an invading HQ force results in nothing but dead Wolfhounds and barely any HQ casualties. In fact, no matter what unit is spammed in response to defend against invading HQ, even when spamming multiple different units and using them in tandem, absolutely nothing works. Spamming defenses doesn't work, spamming tanks doesn't work, spamming infantry doesn't work, spamming aircraft doesn't work, spamming everything doesn't work.

 

7. The last problem is, of course, the sheer cost in trying to defend against HQ. When you have an army of Colossus, Stalkers, Shadow Tanks, Basilisks, and the Irkalla, trying to maintain an economy while under attack becomes impossible. You lose units almost as fast as you can build them, you can't enough money from your miners in time, the miners themselves are being harrassed and destroyed, you can only build one type of unit or structure at a time, and even if you stockpile up all of your units to defend against the HQ army on your doorstep, the enemy still has his production infrastructure intact and still sending in units, making such an endeavor utterly fruitless.

 

8. Tier 3 may not be required to beat HQ at all, but most people just don't have the speed or micromanagement skills to beat HQ before they get to Tier 3 themselves. Hell, I tried reproducing the strategy you used against me, but by the time I get the Borillos, Pyros, and Crazy Ivans as required by the plan, I'm either already under attack on another front, the opposing base is already too well defended, or both. The window of opportunity is so small that it is nearly impossible to achieve victory in the required time needed; once you lose your chance to attack, you are fucked.


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#55 GAMMA47

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:21 AM

Ok why is the AI so bad...they all come after only you and do whatever it takes to get to you and throw everything they have on you...the burrilo has to much health...and the allies doesnt even try to help me when they do all attack me...i feel like that just rushed this game out the door the ai is so poorly made



#56 Speeder

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:26 AM

There's not much you can do with this game's AI, especially when it comes to your allies. It will be worked on further but don't expect miracles.

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#57 Graion Dilach

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 04:46 AM

Regarding HQ vs Russia thingie... micro the Wolfhounds into constant attack-move. Colossus's AA weaponry while fires a lot, does bleh damage to moving targets, and Wolfhound is enough fast to evade most of the damaged caused by Colossus's AA. Not to mention that Wolfhounds have fire-on-the-move, so really, as long as you don't stop them, and your opponent isn't equipped with Gatlings as well, only Irkalla should be a trouble.

 

There's Volkov and Chitzkoi for Shadow Tanks. Use them along with some Tesla Troopers. Infantry ain't useless here and Barracks is a lot harder to camp around. If you don't build Borillos to detect them (keeping some Borillos in your base comes handy in every situation) then you're doing it wrong.

 

I find it funny that you say Colossus is OP, because from my own tests, Colossus is the unit which acts the most crazy, due to it's pop gun delivering damage to units next to the target buildings, and during my tests when I aimed to use that units along with Shadows, the Shadows got destroyed mostly by friendly fire.


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#58 mevitar

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:30 PM

Not to mention that Colossus deals crap damage to infantry, and unless you send Conscripts or dogs against them, they will die. Shadow Tanks might be good against infantry, but they won't be able to kill groups of anti armor infantry either.
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#59 Petya

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 04:07 PM

HQ isn't overpowered. Your problem was that your enemy was prepared for every kind of attack. And as I have seen from you you attacked blindly with those Wolfhounds and you forgot that Irkalla and the Basilisks were defended by 7-8 Colossuses, no wonder if they died too quickly.

 

For Yunru. Yunru may seem to be weakest of all, but within the Centurion she is devastating. She can be also used without the Centurion, but that may require more skill as China.



#60 Allied Commander ???

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:00 PM

What if the Centurion is in-chronosphereable? Once the AI chronosphered my Centurion into the water, along with my Yunru and Eradicator.
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