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MO3.0 Feedback // SUGGESTIONS


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#2601 CLAlstar

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:58 PM

Mercury Uplink is now a requirement for Battle lab. Same for Robot Ops and Shield command. They are avaible at same time as AFCHQ and beside units (Warhawk, Mirage and Zephyr) they also unlock support powers. About Wrapshop, lets count it as tier 3.5 - unlocking CLegs and some of most fun support weapons to use.

 

Soviets might have it easiest way, however price of battle lab is increased. It also takes longer to build. Also, dont forget that Radar is now moved to Airfield, which might not be requirement for t2/t3, but is still necessary if you dont want to be left out blind.

 

Epsilon to reach full tech requires Cloning vats, which is now a prequesitive for Viruses.


Edited by CLAlstar, 21 June 2016 - 09:59 PM.


#2602 Atomic_Noodles

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:51 AM

And how would a slow vehicle with it's only attack being to get into CQC going to be any effective or as viable as other units?

 

Ares has Bounty Logic. Also you can give weapons animations that can heal the unit. Give it 2 weapons. A Weapon to target the smaller units. And a second weapon it uses to target vehicles and buildings which it can "heal" with from the dummy animation. Additionally make it faster or lots of HP like the Nuwa Cannon. Red Alert 2 has Brutes which MO also has.

 

Regarding other RTS... Age of Empires had Battering/Capped Rams.


Edited by Atomic_Noodles, 22 June 2016 - 12:52 AM.

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#2603 BlackAbsence

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:19 PM

So you're introducing T3.5 structures. Lets compare them all.

 

Allies get the Experimental Warp Shop, which:

Unlocks the units - Humming Bird & Chrono Legionnaire.

Unlocks the support powers - Back Warp (Which seems to be buffed. Nice)

Costs $1000.

Seems befitting.

 

Epsilon get the Cloning Vat, which:

Unlocks the units - Dybbuk Evolver & Virus (Who seems to be nerfed. Nice).

Provides 1 clone of infantry you train (Excluding Heroes / Heroines)

Acts like an Oil Derrick.

Costs $ ? ? ?

 

Soviets get the ? ? ?

Industrial Plant ? ? ?

 

Foehn get the ? ? ?

 

Okay, it's really hard to compare their pros and cons to one other when I don't have all the pieces of the puzzle.

Maybe the Ore Purifier is less expensive than the Cloning Vat, whereas the Ore purifier + Experimental Warp Shop = the Cloning Vat (In the regard of being fully T3.5).

 

Edit:

That mobile Grinder unit idea sounds cool.

The Grinder structure could be the requisite for it.

It could also use it's grinding abilities to be subterranean.

 

What if, instead of the Cloning Vat providing addition funds like an Oil Derrick, we have a Mining structure act as a Oil Derrick instead? Its benefiting due to Epsilons subterranean tech.

 

Also, that Bloatick Trap power might be a pit over powered.


Edited by BlackAbsence, 22 June 2016 - 03:40 PM.

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#2604 Bernadiroe

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:09 PM

Make the mobile Grinder only give the player tenth of what the Grinder structure gives. The main point for mobile Grinder probably so that you can free the mind-controlled units so that the masterminds and adepts can move to other victims, while on the side make a bit of money.

 

And limit it to 1 or 3.

 

And make it so that it deploys into a miniature Grinder (in which only when in this form you can put your units inside) for easier micromanagements and can deploy back to mobile form (in mobile form it can do nothing other than squeeze infantry). Make it slow like Nuwa with fragile armor like Oxidizer.

 

$1500 :)



#2605 Oktavia

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:40 PM

You can force fire mind-controlled units to free adepts and masterminds.



#2606 BlackAbsence

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:57 AM

Once upon a time I started to theorize a mod of my own but never got around to finishing it.

In this theoretical mod of mine, I realised that the Yuri Gatling cannon held far superior than the other (soviet and Allied) T1 anti-infantry defences, so I made the other (Soviet and Allied) ones more interesting as compensation.

 

The Allies got the Component Tower (Inspired from TS) which acted like an IFV, as in, you could put 1 slot worth of infantry in it to alter its weapon, with a MG being its default weapon. This meant that the Allies could acquire a T1 AA via a GGI+CT (Component Tower) combo, however it too, requires power. Now you're probably thinking "But wait, wouldn't that render the T2 AA obsolete?" and the answer is no, because, in my mod, I made the T2 AA into a T3 AA that was more powerful with a large missile count but also had slow reload time (Nice punch / Bad recovery thing).

How would this fit into MO? Well, I'd say it shouldn't replace the Pill Box, but rather be a new T1 garrison addition (because the Allies don't have one like Epsilon and Soviets do). It wouldn't have a default weapon, but once it does, considering it's a tower, it could fire over walls, making it a sturdy fortification similar to Battle Bunkers when behind walls. It's up to you if you wanna do that buffed T2 AA to T3 AA thing, but that might make your current T3 AA (Sky Ray Cannon) obsolete, so I'm not entirely sure. Maybe make the Sky Ray Cannon a quick punch / nice recover thing, maybe even a constant attacker? idk.

 

The Soviets... Well be to frank, the Sentry Gun was abysmal; it was rendered obsolete due to the far more suppressor, bang for your buck, Battle Bunkers, so I gave this little bugger a twist. What twist? why, mobility. Unlike any other Anti-infantry T1 defence, this new sentry Gun, named the Sickle Drone, could unpack into a slow, large Terror Drone like walker, which could aid conscripts. I found this balanced because Conscripts sucked, so it evened out the early game rushing capabilities. Then there's the T1 AA problem. What should I do about that, I thought. Well, what I came up with was a simple idea; I just moved the T2 Flak Cannon to T1, however I nerfed it in the process. How should this be implemented into MO? Maybe make Sickle Drones as powerful as the already weak (unless you buffed them for BR2) Flak Tracks (without AA) when in mobile form, and they could have a long deploy / unpack time. The Flak Cannon could just be nerfed and moved to T1, like I said.

 

There, now everyone (Excluding Foehn) has cool (imo) basic T1 anti-infantry and T1 AA defences: They are now up to Par with Yuri... but wait a second, Yuri doesn't have a T1 anti-infantry defence that isn't reliant on power... Well, I guess the Gatling Tank + Tank Bunker combo will have to do, and they have the best (Excluding Foehn) T1 infantry anyway.

 

Those are my ideas, that I'd like to share as a proposal (Take it or leave it) for your mod. No idea what to do about Foehn, though. They'll probably get some cool toys anyway.


Edited by BlackAbsence, 24 June 2016 - 01:51 AM.

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#2607 Atomic_Noodles

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:57 AM

With how Bounty is set up as is it's very limited to being global. Bounty Prices are a fixed set among all units so if you have 2 Bounty Hunter Units (Grinder) and (Assassin) as an example both would get the same cash on killing a target. That can be adjusted with the modder with the values with the bounty tags. I'm totally fine with Bounty Prices being generically 25% of the Units cost.

 

About Component Towers that is one way of using it again. Though Component Towers are permanent upgrades being having better weapons and what not. Also I could see that being an acceptable drawback/explanation to why the IFVs can easily interchange while their Structural Counterpart cannot.

 

In my own take on it I gave Soviet Defenses Mind Control Immunity on them being reliant on AI instead of manned Defenses like Allies and Yuri. Them being robotic in nature also made them eject no crew at all as well.


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#2608 Damfoos

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:02 AM

Is it even possible code-wise to apply IFV logic to buildings/defences? I haven't seen this in other mods yet, I bet it would be used already in every mod if it was possible. Sounds like an interesting idea though.


Edited by Damfoos, 24 June 2016 - 07:09 AM.


#2609 Atomic_Noodles

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:00 AM

Nope not possible closest I think would be using the Building Specific Garrison Logic. But even that means some "IFV Modes" would be shared with garrisonable structures. Using Component Towers in itself is just building upgrade system. Buildings are hardcoded to fire 2 times. (Note how all the component tower buildings in TS all fired at least twice or had 2 fire locations) Another method could be using special Tank Bunker Buildings which only accept IFV Units.


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#2610 CLAlstar

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:41 AM

~bla bla bla~

Dont forget about one thing. While it might be "superior", it still requires power to work. Epsilon have no defensive building that doesnt require power, so shutting it down renders entire base defenceless.



#2611 BlackAbsence

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:57 PM

 

~bla bla bla~

Dont forget about one thing. While it might be "superior", it still requires power to work. Epsilon have no defensive building that doesnt require power, so shutting it down renders entire base defenceless.

 

Yes, Captain Obvious. I stated that in my post. If you had read it other than "blah blah blah" you would've known that.

The reason in my mod, to why I never gave Yuri a non-power-dependant-T1-Anti-infantry-defence-structure, was because they didn't need it due to their T1 infantry being the most powerful.

 

I also forgot to mention that even though the Allied T1 AA was best of its kind, it was also the least cost-effective of its kind. Yuri's T1 AA was the second least cost-effective, and Soviet T1 AA was the most cost effective, despite it being the weakest.


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#2612 Bernadiroe

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:19 PM

Cost-effective wise not really matter then since they're apparently balanced, right..?

Allied = high DPS / expensive

Epsilon = low~high DPS / middle price

Soviet = low DPS / cheap

 

I wonder how about Foehn's.

 

By the way is it possible to make carrier-type units to auto-fire?



#2613 Speeder

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:46 PM

It is.

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#2614 Bernadiroe

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:23 PM

It is.

 

But it won't be balanced if enabled..? I do hope them to be able to auto-fire if the mentalmeisters allow it.



#2615 CLAlstar

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:41 PM

 

It is.

 

But it won't be balanced if enabled..? I do hope them to be able to auto-fire if the mentalmeisters allow it.

 

Think about BR1 Shipwreck, when approaching Carriers. Nope Nope Nope.



#2616 lovalmidas

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:10 PM

And Allied Coop Enforcers, and Epsilon Coop Brain Reset. 

 

Players with auto-fire carriers will no longer be able to sneak them into an enemy base because aircraft will spawn and break any sneak attempt.


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#2617 Bernadiroe

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:55 PM

Can't you "script" them so that the ones in campaign (the ones not suppose to) not auto-firing..? I thought alot of things were scripted in campaigns to avoid any mishaps in the run.

As for pvp, I guess that's true for AC. I thought they work just like other artillery.

 

Also, I forgot, I thought artillery also considered carrier-type (I thought all carrier-type = target-able projectiles)

Would units like Resheph and Scud Launcher be able to auto-fire? (I'm guessing these types still can be used for sneak since they wont attack unless stationary)



#2618 BlackAbsence

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 11:26 PM

is it possible to make carrier-type units to auto-fire?

Yes. Way point one in a cycle and see what happens. They will use force attack movements, meaning they'll auto attack from point A to point B, and since they're in a cycle, they'll never stop... unless killed, of course. I like to do this with 50 or so Hail Storms.


Edited by BlackAbsence, 24 June 2016 - 11:28 PM.

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#2619 Schottkey 7th Path

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 01:20 AM

Now i have not thought of the idea of the Mobile Grinder being able to burrow, but i think that's a great idea to catch enemies by surprise. and yeah, Grinder structure would be a prerequisite for the Mobile Grinder

 

turrets

 

I like the "Multigunner" IFV turrets idea like Red Alert 3 had. this idea totally fits into the Allies theme. but should use power to avoid obsoleting the pillbox defense. though the more specialized Skyray and Patriot will be forced to compete with the Multigunner Turret. unless the Multigunner Turret is say subfaction exclusive as their versatile Anti-Air.

 

The Sickle Drone idea sounds very interesting. since it's true a fully loaded Bunker has the Sentry gun beat in terms of versatility and firepower. but if that wont happen, then Rename the Sentry gun to the Sickle Turret. makes a great name companion to the Hammer Defense.  :shiftee:

 

 

Also, Allies Ore Purifier's ore bonus feels like the weakest of ecoboosters? what if ore purifier either reduces construction time of base defenses or reduces building prices like it's an industrial plant for conyard? lore would be that the ore purifier helps building construction since there is more high quality building material to work with thanks to the purifier. though im sure someone might have a more exciting idea though.


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#2620 Damfoos

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:58 AM

 

 

Think about BR1 Shipwreck, when approaching Carriers. Nope Nope Nope.
Well, maybe it has something to do with the fact that I used Ares 0.5 instead of default 0.4, but they DO automatically attack anything that comes into their range in this mission. And that's on "Easy". Thankfully they don't move and don't pursue targets if these leave their range. Same thing with the Carrier in Road To Nowhere, if you will send your PsiCorps Troopers to it without distracting it first, you will loose a trooper or two. But I'm sure the reason here is the scripts and the agressive behavior set for them, not their unit code. 
 

Edited by Damfoos, 25 June 2016 - 07:06 AM.





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