5129 replies to this topic

[Damfoos]

Nice, I like that duo and their guerilla warfare. Hopefully we'll see more missions with prototype units and exclusive capaign units. 

 

Something about coop missions. Some of them seem to have continuity errors: some units and weapons appear earlier than they should. Like in Research Stroke, you play as HQ (aren't they supposed to be Antarctica guards?) and can build Opus tanks (which will be featured in Lizard Brain as a prototype). But OK, I suppose this mission takes place after Lizard Brain. But why do the players have Colossus' tanks at their disposal? Isn't it supposed to appear in one of the last Epsilon missions with some introducton like "here's the latest weapon HQ scientists invented, it will help you in this situation"? Obviously Research Stroke takes place before Centurion's creation, and Centuirion seems to appear in the story somewhere in the middle of Act 2, so Research Stroke events happen in first half of Act 2. So why do we have these units already? (EDIT - NVM the Centurion part, I'm not even sure why I mentioned the engine, there's no engine in this mission's briefing, just some "new weapons". Still, the mission seems to happen too early to have access to Colossus) Someone also mentioned Athena Cannons used by Allied AI in coop missions which chronically happen during Act 1 events, even though you only discover them in 4th mission of Act 2.

Edited by Damfoos, 09 January 2017 - 11:14 AM.

[lovalmidas]

Rahn's rampage across the lands kinds of make HQ seem negligent if they stay home.

 

There are a good deal of T3 units introduced very early in the timeline. The singleplayer campaign should be the reference point for unit introductions.

 

On the other hand, big changes to the mod's core ini without updating some of the AI tends to produce the situation you see in Act One. Spot it, report it and we will look to verify and fix it.

 

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You will help us a good deal by collating a list of suspected* errors and posting in the bugs section in the forum.

 

*What you see as an error might be intended, but mention them anyway. The forum can use some discussion on that.

[Tyhednus]

Speaking of coop missions, I have in mind to write some more missions over the next few months:

- Reznov + Krukov coop missions (I started out envisioning Reznov and Krukov with the possibility of using them as cooperative commandos). R+K coops will likely be micromanagement / limited base missions

- Coop missions running in parallel to the main campaign. If you have something in mind to expand the story so far.
(And the actual campaign, and bugfixing existing missions, but those be secrets.

The work will be more likely based on Act Two rather than Act One, but if you have ideas to expand that front you can write them here as well. I won't be able to implement them all, but this will give me an idea on the kind of fights you desire.

I really like missions like Downfall and Balance of Power where both players get different tasks and different tech. And it is not that difficult and not too easy either. Panzer ace is also a great mission. Would love a mission where one player controls pf and the other China.
As for story links. We have not gotten all of the details of act 2 in the briefings. Would be fun to have a mission wheren you build a certain number of units and send them to another mission as reinforcements. Maybe a mission with SC how they beat the soviets and allies in Africa or how they assembled the Amplifier in Morocco.

[Damfoos]

Obviously I'd like to help with bug hunting, the more bugs get caught, the better. The most noticeable ones (which have been reported by other people already) are Happy Birthday Morales armorset bug, armorset bug in one of Epsilon mission, Virus being unable to survive some situations in Singularity due to nerfs, and Volkov being unable to destroy all AA in time in Lunatic on higher difficulties due to a serious weapon nerf. And I still insist on bringing the Radar Towers back into campaign, Field Bureaus look stupid as their replacements. Just look at the "communications outpost" in The Raven: how does it NOT look wrong with prison buildings instead of radars?

Spoiler

Edited by Damfoos, 09 January 2017 - 11:37 AM.

[Admiral_Pit]

 

I suppose I'll bring my input in some earlier topics.

Wished I knew bout my loss being posted up there, along with the discouraging words of someone towards me... *pouts*, but for the sake of knowledge, it's fine... I guess (good thing for that 3v3 vid).  I do recall originally picking PC in 3.3 to counter Foehn sometimes, that and to show variety outside the HQ and SC growing population (well HQ anyways).  I should consider using some subs to counter against others, perhaps.

 

However, I'd still love to figure out a way to counter Stolen Tech just in case I somehow screw up (or my partner if applicable), most specifically, Salamanders.  Infantry coulda worked, but eppy easily beats em, and no one really makes numerous base defenses, or at least I'd want to know what units besides heroes are immune to confusion effects.

 

Next, Giant Banes, despite being slow, are still bulky anti-armor and anti-air.  And don't underestimate their stun.  You can easily pick out heroes, spies, or high priority threats to stun, and its weapon range is pretty nice.  Meanwhile, almost everyone else prefers to just mass God Banes, and take away much of their AA resistances in doing so.

Speaking of stolen techs, ramwagons should be retweaked >:( Though i am open to strategies on dealing with them if either me or a teammate carelessly let enemy players steal technology like that. 

Salamanders should be dealt with using infantry and despite their range they are still slow as shit and some AAs outrange them anyway. Also not all maps allow you to kill infantry with infantry so easily which means it depends on what map you are playing anyway.

I still stand by my claim that giantsbane and godsbane need a nasty hp nerf to make them more durable than most infantry except for volkov and the cyborg commando(for godsbane their damage outputs against tanks and infantry are seriously different and could use a retweaking.)

speaking of cyborg commando i have no idea what his stats are. Anyone know what his numerical stats are??

 

 

Treat Ramwagons as mobile T3 Foehn defenses, and thus should do poorly against infantry (just be careful not to get ran over).  Otherwise, air units are also an option.

 

As for the Giants and Gods Banes... I kinda came across some LB players that prefer SWs off, and that actually is a buff to LB IMO.  Without SW, you can't cut through bastion that easily, or in my case, wouldn't have access to Iron Curtain'd Terror Drones to help clean up some Bane groups, especially since the latter is immune to EMP and its weapon causing stun messes with your army.

 

 

 

 

 

 

... or at least I'd want to know what units besides heroes are immune to confusion effects.

Robots, naturally

 

 

Tried it earlier, but the new confusion, as opposed to 3.0, can affect more units.  It even affects Robot Tanks and dogs., whereas Nano'd Huntress can target air units with confusion shots too.

[Nicholas Chau]

 

 

I suppose I'll bring my input in some earlier topics.

Wished I knew bout my loss being posted up there, along with the discouraging words of someone towards me... *pouts*, but for the sake of knowledge, it's fine... I guess (good thing for that 3v3 vid).  I do recall originally picking PC in 3.3 to counter Foehn sometimes, that and to show variety outside the HQ and SC growing population (well HQ anyways).  I should consider using some subs to counter against others, perhaps.

 

However, I'd still love to figure out a way to counter Stolen Tech just in case I somehow screw up (or my partner if applicable), most specifically, Salamanders.  Infantry coulda worked, but eppy easily beats em, and no one really makes numerous base defenses, or at least I'd want to know what units besides heroes are immune to confusion effects.

 

Next, Giant Banes, despite being slow, are still bulky anti-armor and anti-air.  And don't underestimate their stun.  You can easily pick out heroes, spies, or high priority threats to stun, and its weapon range is pretty nice.  Meanwhile, almost everyone else prefers to just mass God Banes, and take away much of their AA resistances in doing so.

Speaking of stolen techs, ramwagons should be retweaked >:( Though i am open to strategies on dealing with them if either me or a teammate carelessly let enemy players steal technology like that. 

Salamanders should be dealt with using infantry and despite their range they are still slow as shit and some AAs outrange them anyway. Also not all maps allow you to kill infantry with infantry so easily which means it depends on what map you are playing anyway.

I still stand by my claim that giantsbane and godsbane need a nasty hp nerf to make them more durable than most infantry except for volkov and the cyborg commando(for godsbane their damage outputs against tanks and infantry are seriously different and could use a retweaking.)

speaking of cyborg commando i have no idea what his stats are. Anyone know what his numerical stats are??

 

 

Treat Ramwagons as mobile T3 Foehn defenses, and thus should do poorly against infantry (just be careful not to get ran over).  Otherwise, air units are also an option.

 

As for the Giants and Gods Banes... I kinda came across some LB players that prefer SWs off, and that actually is a buff to LB IMO.  Without SW, you can't cut through bastion that easily, or in my case, wouldn't have access to Iron Curtain'd Terror Drones to help clean up some Bane groups, especially since the latter is immune to EMP and its weapon causing stun messes with your army.

 

 

 

 

 

 

... or at least I'd want to know what units besides heroes are immune to confusion effects.

Robots, naturally

 

 

Tried it earlier, but the new confusion, as opposed to 3.0, can affect more units.  It even affects Robot Tanks and dogs., whereas Nano'd Huntress can target air units with confusion shots too.

 

well if you describe the ramwagon like that then ok. As for the confusion rays, actually it can affect some robots too since it's not a drug weapon like the hallucinogen gases that epsilon used back then. You can also go check in the faction page. 

Ah terror drone spam, forgot about them  but i still think giantsbane and godsbane need hp nerf alongside the foehn infantry(INCLUDING the nano sync'ed versions of said infantry)except for commandos, engineers and duplicants.

Edited by Nicholas Chau, 09 January 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[aethiraes]

I suppose I'll bring my input in some earlier topics.
Wished I knew bout my loss being posted up there, along with the discouraging words of someone towards me... *pouts*, but for the sake of knowledge, it's fine... I guess (good thing for that 3v3 vid). I do recall originally picking PC in 3.3 to counter Foehn sometimes, that and to show variety outside the HQ and SC growing population (well HQ anyways). I should consider using some subs to counter against others, perhaps.

However, I'd still love to figure out a way to counter Stolen Tech just in case I somehow screw up (or my partner if applicable), most specifically, Salamanders. Infantry coulda worked, but eppy easily beats em, and no one really makes numerous base defenses, or at least I'd want to know what units besides heroes are immune to confusion effects.

Next, Giant Banes, despite being slow, are still bulky anti-armor and anti-air. And don't underestimate their stun. You can easily pick out heroes, spies, or high priority threats to stun, and its weapon range is pretty nice. Meanwhile, almost everyone else prefers to just mass God Banes, and take away much of their AA resistances in doing so.

Plus, Giantsbane use Golden Rockets. So do Sweepers. So turtling power gets increased when you deploy a SODAR. You're basically meant to use SODAR with this subfaction.

It's insane to rely on nothing but base defenses, when you have things like the Giantsbane.

Edited by aethiraes, 09 January 2017 - 01:05 PM.

[Solais]

Coop missions featuring hero duos would be interesting. The Mermaid comes to mind, how you had two heroes working together as well. Or the first part of Divergence with Rahn and Malver.

[Tyhednus]

The Clairvoyant and Jackall combo is too strong imo, because they can just ignore everything and ride into your base, infiltrate all important buildings and get out. With Minermites it becomes even more annoying.

Maybe there could be an option to turn off spies completely.

[X1Destroy]

Sometimes I can't help but think minermite is one of the most creative and insane idea ever.

It's both weak and strong at the sametime. In groups the things are very annoying with theirs constant auto repairs. And with a spinblade around good luck catching them.

Of all the 4 miners, this one is the most trolling. You won't be able to harass them no matter how many terror drones you have because as long as there are 2 of them in one place they will keep licking each other and remove all infections.

The Chrono miner have to withdraw from the field to not die. The Warminer's gun can be overwhelmed. The Ghost can't do shit once it is exposed.

The minermites just don't care. And they are cheap and quick to build unlike the trucks.

Edited by X1Destroy, 09 January 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Admiral_Pit]

It is true that Jackal + spy rushes, especially with Minermites thanks to me, are OP, but there's very few ways to counter em, and as I experienced, a Tech-rushing Eppy with Adepts is all that's needed, and if the attacks does fail, you can be left right open since doing this attack already costs quite a bit of money and you're sacrificing economy time if you take some miners with you as it is.  However, I am looking to see what from different factions can counter em.  The basic staple for this rush is 2 Jackals filled with 2 spies each for those curious, and if you're gutsy, add 3 miners as healing escort (this wont work on maps where water blocks some areas as miners aren't amphibious).

[Divine]

I'd like to see the skirmish AI being upgraded in the next update. A few things that would be very important:

-Less obvious cheating. It doesn't actually make the game that much harder, but it makes PvE a completely different game than PvP. Early game spies and infinite money should be addressed. Spies should be used by the AI in more similar ways to how players do it, for example, Jackal+Clairvoyant, Driller+Infiltrator combos etc. The second one is a bit trickier, but key factors would be to make the AI build a stronger economy, and guard its miners. 

-Very important! The AI teams should retaliate if one of their units gets attacked. Ares made it possible, IIRC.

-The AI should attack towards the least resistance, always. Scorpion Cell sending its burrowing Tyrants right in front of my perimeter is just ridiculous.

 

In general, the task forces and their behaviours should be adjusted to have more similar composition and behaviour to those that are usually used by players. I'm not going to go into further details, everyone knows how the AI plays. But seriously, the current AI is just atrociously stupid, and frankly, it seems to be much worse than the vanilla AI in terms of tactics, even though the MO Ai obviously spams more units. A big improvement that I have to praise while I'm at it is that Kirovs finally attack the perimeter and not try to go over it to get to the CY. More like this, please!

[aethiraes]

I'd like to see the skirmish AI being upgraded in the next update. A few things that would be very important:

-Less obvious cheating. It doesn't actually make the game that much harder, but it makes PvE a completely different game than PvP. Early game spies and infinite money should be addressed. Spies should be used by the AI in more similar ways to how players do it, for example, Jackal+Clairvoyant, Driller+Infiltrator combos etc. The second one is a bit trickier, but key factors would be to make the AI build a stronger economy, and guard its miners. 

-Very important! The AI teams should retaliate if one of their units gets attacked. Ares made it possible, IIRC.

-The AI should attack towards the least resistance, always. Scorpion Cell sending its burrowing Tyrants right in front of my perimeter is just ridiculous.

 

In general, the task forces and their behaviours should be adjusted to have more similar composition and behaviour to those that are usually used by players. I'm not going to go into further details, everyone knows how the AI plays. But seriously, the current AI is just atrociously stupid, and frankly, it seems to be much worse than the vanilla AI in terms of tactics, even though the MO Ai obviously spams more units. A big improvement that I have to praise while I'm at it is that Kirovs finally attack the perimeter and not try to go over it to get to the CY. More like this, please!

 

That being said though, the recent changes to the AI are quite good. No more T1 spy spams. No more rapidly escalating MAD as the AI all develop superweapons within 5 minutes. In fact, it seems that the AI will only develop superweapons when it can't defeat you with an army alone. 

 

If this harder AI does get implemented, I hope Mental AI spamming stays somehow. Although its tedious to fight against spam, occasionally its fun to hold out as Last Bastion against a ceaseless horde of AI advancing on your position. 

[Nicholas Chau]

I'd like to see the skirmish AI being upgraded in the next update. A few things that would be very important:

-Less obvious cheating. It doesn't actually make the game that much harder, but it makes PvE a completely different game than PvP. Early game spies and infinite money should be addressed. Spies should be used by the AI in more similar ways to how players do it, for example, Jackal+Clairvoyant, Driller+Infiltrator combos etc. The second one is a bit trickier, but key factors would be to make the AI build a stronger economy, and guard its miners. 

-Very important! The AI teams should retaliate if one of their units gets attacked. Ares made it possible, IIRC.

-The AI should attack towards the least resistance, always. Scorpion Cell sending its burrowing Tyrants right in front of my perimeter is just ridiculous.

 

In general, the task forces and their behaviours should be adjusted to have more similar composition and behaviour to those that are usually used by players. I'm not going to go into further details, everyone knows how the AI plays. But seriously, the current AI is just atrociously stupid, and frankly, it seems to be much worse than the vanilla AI in terms of tactics, even though the MO Ai obviously spams more units. A big improvement that I have to praise while I'm at it is that Kirovs finally attack the perimeter and not try to go over it to get to the CY. More like this, please!

i really think the AI needs to be upgraded in the intelligence department; i mean cmon tier 2 they can train spys while not counting foehn, i have to reach tier 3 to train my spys for the original 3 factions. The infinite money and all seeing bullshit should be removed as well >:(

[Handepsilon]

A big improvement that I have to praise while I'm at it is that Kirovs finally attack the perimeter and not try to go over it to get to the CY. More like this, please!

Would've agreed to this, except when I was allying Soviet AI, he not only attacks the perimeter defenses and not going straight to production buildings. In fact, as soon as he was done with the front defenses, he turned the kirov around to the neighboring base, blatantly ignoring the presence of the ConYard he woulda been able to kill

Edited by Handepsilon, 10 January 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[X1Destroy]

Guys, AI will never play like humans no matter what. The infinite money cheat exist because you can easily do a 10-1 kill ratio against it with micro. Do you want fun siege battles where you will always see lots of actions on the screen or spend an hour to do nothing but look at your pretty base being impervious?

I agree that the current AI is weak even with mental boost on but instead of trying to emulate shits like economic guard or baitings just make it spam even more and spam faster.

Edited by X1Destroy, 10 January 2017 - 12:59 AM.

[FELITH]

 

at the same cost.

edit: I think anti tank weapons should be affect with Giant&Godbane.

Edited by FELITH, 10 January 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Divine]

 

at the same cost.

edit: I think anti tank weapons should be affect with Giant&Godbane.

If you think that is bad, compare the Basilisk and the Quetzal. For being 400$ more expensive, the Quetzal is on entirely a different level. Or the Buzzard and the Invader, for that matter.

Edited by Divine, 10 January 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[Handepsilon]

Why are you comparing tier 2 infantry to tier 1 infantry?

Also, with enough Anti Air, Quetzal drones can be shot down, rendering him useless if he's not almost at melee range

[Divine]

Why are you comparing tier 2 infantry to tier 1 infantry?

Also, with enough Anti Air, Quetzal drones can be shot down, rendering him useless if he's not almost at melee range

Yeah if you waste about 5k on AA and group it all together, then they can hold up like two Quetzals. Maybe. With the Basilisk the same comparison would be pointless, because it can't outrange AA to begin with, and doesn't have very heavy armor.

Edited by Divine, 10 January 2017 - 12:14 PM.