Jump to content


Photo

MO 3.3 // Feedback & Suggestions (Balance, New Features, Modifications etc.)


  • Please log in to reply
5127 replies to this topic

#3141 Divine

Divine

    NGL, I was kinda drunk when I registered with this name.

  • Members
  • 1,182 posts
  • Location:Hungary

Posted 17 March 2018 - 12:48 PM

Since when is PsiCorps T3 all about speed?

 

 

Gehennas are slightly slower than your average Magnetron/Mastermind/Brute blob, which in my opinion is perfectly fine as they are after all a back up unit you dont want on the front line. Besides, every T3 AA needs to be micro'd properly to actually be efficient.

 

As far as I can see the sole reason you dumb down the Gehennas so much is because of their mobility, which in itself is compensated quite heavily by the range on their interceptor (Motherf*cking interceptors killing all my jets as soon they're about to land because interceptors chase throughout the entire map) and their rather absurd DPS for a unit that can strike down from a long range.

You could argue that the interceptor gets shot down easily, which is true if the enemy has invested way too much on AA just to keep your interceptors down, however that in itself can be exploited through other means, which PsiCorps has plenty of.

 

I found it hard to make the PsiCorps taskforce shine without maintaining mobility. Magnet beams + magnetrons open windows of opportunity, which need to be exploited quickly. Other times, a quick retreat is in order. Surely, Masterminds and Brutes aren't exatly lightning fast either, but Gehennas are always lagging behind. There's also the case when the game isn't completely in tier 3 yet, and tier 1 and 2 units are still the backbone of a strike force. In those cases, i found mobility to be even more important. If range compensates for the lack of mobility, then what compensates to the interceptor's slow reaction time? Most other tier 3 AA have insta-hitting or nearly insta-hitting weapons, the Gehenna needs a good 1,5-2 secs to engagege a target that gets in its range. I always thought that the long range exists to compensate for this. If the Gehenna is pushed back, away from the front lines, then this compensation is lost, and the PsiCorps player has to resort to Archer or Gatling Tank spam to prevent enemy jets from sniping Magnetrons, Elites, or even Masterminds. The downside of spending too much money on those units is obvious. Stopping Diverbees, or suicide attacks by jet fighters just with Gehennas is hopeless, regardless of their position.

 

It also doesn't take that much AA to keep the interceptors down. There are lot of units from tier 1 to 3 which aren't dedicated AA but can do the job and are used anyway, so extra spending is hardly ever required.

 

Gehennas can work. True. Almost everything can work if the player is good enough, and the enemy is bad enough. But these things are vastly underperforming compared to the rest of tier 3 AA. I'd have a Sentinel, Aeroblaze, Alanqua, or even Oxidizer instead of a Gehenna any day, not to mention things like the Wolfie, Thor, Shadray, or Colossus, which aren't purely AA but can do the job nevertheless. Compared to its peers, the Gehenna is a disappointment.

 

To say something positive about it tho, I think it's the best weaon to use against a Harbinger. But that's a niche role.


Edited by Divine, 17 March 2018 - 01:00 PM.

Some unofficial stuff I made for Mental Omega
 
Sidebar icons for normally not buildable stuff: Yuri Prime, Space CommandoAllied Jackal (obsolete)Gravitron
Skirmish Map: (2) Commietopia
 
Feedback and showcase thread

#3142 PACER

PACER

    RTS Lorewalker

  • Members
  • 547 posts
  •  Much to babble about

Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:40 PM

In fact, Minds and Gehennas both have 4 speed. While Magnets are slight faster at 5


In-game speed vs real life speed?   
Malver in Obisidian Sands?   
Strength-Agility-Intellect subfactions?    


#3143 Divine

Divine

    NGL, I was kinda drunk when I registered with this name.

  • Members
  • 1,182 posts
  • Location:Hungary

Posted 17 March 2018 - 02:32 PM

Just checked the ini, it's true. I noticed that the Gehenna has slower turning rate tho, so I made a little testing (a race featuring a MM and a Gehenna). As it turned out, the slower turning rate barely influenced the Gehenna, and when they were ordered to move together, it could indded keep up with the Mastermind. I conclude that my perception of the Gehenna being unreasonably slow is either the result of the delay caused by usually ordering them separately from the main group, my own confirmation bias, or both.

 

I still maintain that it's underperforming, tho.


Some unofficial stuff I made for Mental Omega
 
Sidebar icons for normally not buildable stuff: Yuri Prime, Space CommandoAllied Jackal (obsolete)Gravitron
Skirmish Map: (2) Commietopia
 
Feedback and showcase thread

#3144 PACER

PACER

    RTS Lorewalker

  • Members
  • 547 posts
  •  Much to babble about

Posted 17 March 2018 - 03:56 PM

Just checked the ini, it's true. I noticed that the Gehenna has slower turning rate tho, so I made a little testing (a race featuring a MM and a Gehenna). As it turned out, the slower turning rate barely influenced the Gehenna, and when they were ordered to move together, it could indded keep up with the Mastermind. I conclude that my perception of the Gehenna being unreasonably slow is either the result of the delay caused by usually ordering them separately from the main group, my own confirmation bias, or both.

 

I still maintain that it's underperforming, tho.

 

It's true that Gehenna is among the slowest ground advanced AA (4 along with Sentinel and Shadray).

Its Interceptor is potent against heavier aircrafts, while at the same time guarantees that an enemy jet can never return in one piece (except when the drone itself is shot down). As a result Gehenna works better alone than in number.

 

Ofc these are all based on the assumption that the enemy do not deploy AA against the Interceptors themselves. In that case however I found it really hard to maintain balance so that the drones can stand AA firepower and don't overwhelm Wolves at the same time.


Edited by PACER, 17 March 2018 - 03:57 PM.

In-game speed vs real life speed?   
Malver in Obisidian Sands?   
Strength-Agility-Intellect subfactions?    


#3145 SPCell

SPCell
  • Members
  • 116 posts
  • Location:Russia

Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:00 PM

This was discussed even before 3.3.2's release, but are there plans to give Russia it's subfaction-specific version of Tesla trooper if Chinese have Eradicators instead of regular Desolators?


Edited by SPCell, 17 March 2018 - 04:00 PM.


#3146 PACER

PACER

    RTS Lorewalker

  • Members
  • 547 posts
  •  Much to babble about

Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:02 PM

This was discussed even before 3.3.2's release, but are there plans to give Russia it's subfaction-specific version of Tesla trooper if Chinese have Eradicators instead of regular Desolators?

It is called Volkov. Russia already got one more hero unit than the other two.


Edited by PACER, 17 March 2018 - 04:03 PM.

In-game speed vs real life speed?   
Malver in Obisidian Sands?   
Strength-Agility-Intellect subfactions?    


#3147 PACER

PACER

    RTS Lorewalker

  • Members
  • 547 posts
  •  Much to babble about

Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:05 PM

This was discussed even before 3.3.2's release, but are there plans to give Russia it's subfaction-specific version of Tesla trooper if Chinese have Eradicators instead of regular Desolators?

 

Btw that'll be a very bad precedent. People will soon start vowing for EA's special Cleg, LB's special Huntress, HQ's special Brute and so on


In-game speed vs real life speed?   
Malver in Obisidian Sands?   
Strength-Agility-Intellect subfactions?    


#3148 Divine

Divine

    NGL, I was kinda drunk when I registered with this name.

  • Members
  • 1,182 posts
  • Location:Hungary

Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:57 PM

I wouldn't mind at all if each and every unit was faction specific, like in Generals Shockwave. I know it will never happen, tho.


Some unofficial stuff I made for Mental Omega
 
Sidebar icons for normally not buildable stuff: Yuri Prime, Space CommandoAllied Jackal (obsolete)Gravitron
Skirmish Map: (2) Commietopia
 
Feedback and showcase thread

#3149 Tathmesh

Tathmesh

    title available

  • Members
  • 326 posts
  • Location:In the eye of the storm
  •  Degenerate Haihead Main

Posted 17 March 2018 - 05:25 PM

 

This was discussed even before 3.3.2's release, but are there plans to give Russia it's subfaction-specific version of Tesla trooper if Chinese have Eradicators instead of regular Desolators?

 

Btw that'll be a very bad precedent. People will soon start vowing for EA's special Cleg, LB's special Huntress, HQ's special Brute and so on

 

 

In an ideal world though, that would be a fun campaign-exclusive, like how SC2: Legacy of the Void has different tribal variations of the same unit. 



#3150 Solais

Solais

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Members
  • 1,648 posts

Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:12 PM

Those space brute graphics could be reused for that special brute.



#3151 NorthFireZ

NorthFireZ

    MO Caster, Community Ghost

  • Members
  • 330 posts
  • Projects:MO Faction Guides
  •  Random Asshole

Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:16 PM

Wouldn't mind an EA special Cleg or a LB special huntress to be entirely honest. 


I have a year-long Writer's block @ https://www.fanficti...1/At-Mind-s-End But youtube is doing well! https://www.youtube....ser/andywong545


#3152 Divine

Divine

    NGL, I was kinda drunk when I registered with this name.

  • Members
  • 1,182 posts
  • Location:Hungary

Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:17 PM

Those space brute graphics could be reused for that special brute.

Meh. That'd be cheap. It's literally just a recolor. If a special brute was to be added... I'd imagine it visibly larger than the normal brute, with like, huge, spiked brass knuckles or even better, a massive mace, and some sort of apparatus on its back, with tanks of mutagenic goo or combat drugs sticking out of it. Maybe even some steel plate body armor covering his chest, or some makeshift armor made of tank tracks, like what some Ogryns have in WH40K.


Edited by Divine, 17 March 2018 - 07:20 PM.

Some unofficial stuff I made for Mental Omega
 
Sidebar icons for normally not buildable stuff: Yuri Prime, Space CommandoAllied Jackal (obsolete)Gravitron
Skirmish Map: (2) Commietopia
 
Feedback and showcase thread

#3153 BlackAbsence

BlackAbsence

    BlargleGargle

  • Members
  • 360 posts
  • Location:Bottom of the Abyss

Posted 17 March 2018 - 11:11 PM

Couldn't the HQ stalker technically be considered that special brute?

A very long time ago, I did suggest the new kind of brute called the berserker.

The berserker would carry a miniature rage inducer built into his back which could be activated for short periods when deployed.

Back when chaos gas was a thing, he would also explode with chaos gas upon death.

 

Regarding the gehenna platform... 3 of them can level an irkalla quickly from a safe distance. I would have to agree with Alstar on this one and say that they're outstanding AA.

Think of them as heavy hitting artillery against air which should be supported with archers / gat tanks if air sneaks closer.

The worst thing about them would be countering little jets from aircraft carriers.


Infinitive absence.


#3154 SPCell

SPCell
  • Members
  • 116 posts
  • Location:Russia

Posted 18 March 2018 - 12:53 PM

 

This was discussed even before 3.3.2's release, but are there plans to give Russia it's subfaction-specific version of Tesla trooper if Chinese have Eradicators instead of regular Desolators?

 

Btw that'll be a very bad precedent. People will soon start vowing for EA's special Cleg, LB's special Huntress, HQ's special Brute and so on

 

I don't see a problem with that. This will make the game even more interesting in gameplay. Russia can get their own Tesla trooper, China has Eradicator, Latins can get their own version of Crazy Ivan due to their diversion/fire nature. EA can get their unique CLeg, USA maybe can get their unique SEAL, PF an unique Siege Cadre due to Kanegawa Industries being adepts at prisma tech. Unique Brute for HQ, unique Dunerider for Scorpion Cell due to their toxin nature, PsiCorps already has Epsilon Elites instead of Adepts due to being specialists at mind control. Then finally unique Huntress for LB, unique Clairvoyant for Haihead since they are intended to be a recon subfaction. Dunno for Coronia though.


Edited by SPCell, 18 March 2018 - 12:54 PM.


#3155 TheWankBank

TheWankBank
  • Members
  • 236 posts
  •  What am I doing here?

Posted 18 March 2018 - 01:35 PM

Yes, they do have their unique crazy ivan, it's called the " Arsonist "


iy2vXkp.png

Games -

 

Command and Conquer Red Alert 2/3 and Yuri's Revenge

Command and Conquer Tiberium Wars/ Kane's Wrath/ and Sun

Command and Conquer Generals and Zero hour

 


#3156 Tathmesh

Tathmesh

    title available

  • Members
  • 326 posts
  • Location:In the eye of the storm
  •  Degenerate Haihead Main

Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:27 PM

I mean every faction basically has their own special infantry.

 

USA - Riot Trooper 

EA - Sniper

PF - Suppressor

 

CHINA - Eradicator/Gyrocopter

LC - Mortar Quad/Arsonist

RU - None(?)

 

PSI - Epsilon Elites (Libra Clones kinda count)

HQ - Stalker

SC - Hijacker

 

LB - Giant/Godsbane

HH - Syncronin/naut

CO - Zorbtrotter/floater

 

I don't think other factions need anything. But if Russia does get special infantry, I'm hoping it's not something boring like "Tesla Trooper but on steroids" like the Eradicator. The best infantries synergize with the subfaction's theme. Stalkers heal infantry so it complements HQ's "infantry tactics", Syncronin weakens building armor to maximize destruction. A Russia unique infantry should add something to their playstyle. 


Edited by Tathmesh, 18 March 2018 - 02:28 PM.


#3157 SPCell

SPCell
  • Members
  • 116 posts
  • Location:Russia

Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:48 PM

Months ago Voltmortar was suggested to be added as Russia's unique infantry. Just remove stealth and make them anti-unit or infantry artillery with Scuds being anti-building artillery. Tesla trooper can be replaced with a version with slightly more hp and range and a short EMP, but more expensive and slower. Plot-wise it can appear in last missions of Soviets with the justification like "With Chinese tech we completed these projects".


Edited by SPCell, 18 March 2018 - 02:48 PM.


#3158 Divine

Divine

    NGL, I was kinda drunk when I registered with this name.

  • Members
  • 1,182 posts
  • Location:Hungary

Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:53 PM

I liked the Voltmortar - it was my favourite stolen tech infantry. Unfortunately, making the unit sufficiently differ from LC's Mortar Quad would be a challenge. Mortar Quad is anti-armor, so the Voltmortar shouldn't be. SCUD Launcher already fills the artillery role, so the Voltmortar shouldn't. The only thing that remains is anti-infantry. I'd be ok with it being a blob killer.


Some unofficial stuff I made for Mental Omega
 
Sidebar icons for normally not buildable stuff: Yuri Prime, Space CommandoAllied Jackal (obsolete)Gravitron
Skirmish Map: (2) Commietopia
 
Feedback and showcase thread

#3159 SPCell

SPCell
  • Members
  • 116 posts
  • Location:Russia

Posted 18 March 2018 - 04:39 PM

Voltmortar can be a splash tesla trooper with damage and EMP like tesla cruiser has.



#3160 J00B

J00B
  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • Location:Sydney Cloning Vats

Posted 18 March 2018 - 11:04 PM

I think the Soviets Nuclear missile could use a small revision to improve on RA2/YR. It looks a little silly to have all stages come down with the warhead. Usually these would be jettisoned in flight.

 

G6G6gPS.jpg






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users