5129 replies to this topic

[XoGamer]

I think Foehn needs nerfing and tweaking though that's just me.

 

It's not just you, there are tons of other people asking for nerfs on Foehn. Hopefully the devs are listening as I'm sure they will come to realise that it definitely needs to be brought down to earth. For example, try beating Wings Of Coronia as Confed. - They will get completely slaughtered. Maybe pro-level Confed players could win but it's definitely not balanced and whilst I am thankful for the new faction the MO team have blessed us with, it has thrown all the other factions out of balance - at least in the current update.

[X1Destroy]

I think the problem is that the new faction have a completely different approach to the game instead of trying to mix in with the standard formula.

See Last Bastion having no artillery but a mini super-weapon with unlimited range and a giant plasma turret with artillery range, a HT that doesn't actually kill anyone but never die and just keep healing itself and stuffs near it to emphasize its style of turtle and annoy the enemy till either you can spam troops with god know how much money or he quits.

See Haihead having mediocre siege weapons but can just charge its mech units mindlessly at the enemy to receive close combat bonus and use the instant kill infantry shield for distraction, then do a dice game with the MADMAN. If it's managed to get close to your base it's freaking doom for you. No getting back ever. But if it's failed, then you will bite them back.

Wings of Coronia don't even need ground forces. Quetzal shield make airborne artillery units become tanks. Seriously. Pteranodon's weapon counter even theirs own counters which are AA vehicles. Paired with Buzzars and you don't have to give a damn about infantry at all. And the Harbinger will ensure that trying to do nothing but camping with AA turrets is a bad idea.

Edited by X1Destroy, 05 January 2017 - 06:49 PM.

[Bernadiroe]

 

I think Foehn needs nerfing and tweaking though that's just me.

 

It's not just you, there are tons of other people asking for nerfs on Foehn. Hopefully the devs are listening as I'm sure they will come to realise that it definitely needs to be brought down to earth. For example, try beating Wings Of Coronia as Confed. - They will get completely slaughtered. Maybe pro-level Confed players could win but it's definitely not balanced and whilst I am thankful for the new faction the MO team have blessed us with, it has thrown all the other factions out of balance - at least in the current update.

 

 

 

There always been sub-factions that is strong against some and weak against some, since each sub-faction has their own pros and cons which can be taken advantage by other sub-faction cons and pros.

 

If you're playing with a sub-faction that's apparently weak against your enemy's sub-faction on purpose, that's just you asking to have more difficulty.

If you got matched with a sub-faction that would eat you alive without knowing, that's just your luck.

 

If you're asking for all to be balanced, then all sides will have no weakness/strong points which give them uniqueness.

Weakness/Strong points such as have superior AA but have little to no siege. Have very high mobility but weak firepower. Have precision strikes but only work on specific target type. Etc.

 

Foehn themselves have weaknesses.

Space (larger power plant), slow starting money plus weak individual miners, no unit to detect + kill spies, other than Wings of Coronia, the other 2 don't really have strong air units to go against armor/infantry type. Difficulty to infiltrate. Their basic AA allows jets to drop their payloads before getting destroyed.

[TeslaCruiser]

Due the amount of content this mod intruduce it is very hard to achieve balance but it must be a goal. A big problem is that you need a competitive ground to see the full potential of the new aditions and in this point many of us are learning the game.

[XoGamer]

I agree completely with your point - however, despite the many weaknesses of Foehn, they have way too much firepower for the amount of money they give in. The matchups between other factions such as China and USA for example or anything at all really between the vanilla factions can be won as either side without massive handicaps to either side. Sure, some factions can exploit the weaknesses of other factions but nothing can exploit the weaknesses of other factions with such ferocity and with so little weaknesses as much as Foehn. Yes, I fully understand that their AA is bad but they can just exchange those for Tier 3 AAs - they have so much money to do so with their reprocessor. And, they can completely block any way of getting in to their base with their way too powerful defenses and their signal distruptor thing that blocks everything, even superweapons from being used there.
Sure, Foehn was designed with many flaws in place as weaknesses but their flaws do not nearly compensate enough for their power as much as the other factions.

[Damfoos]

There always been sub-factions that is strong against some and weak against some, since each sub-faction has their own pros and cons which can be taken advantage by other sub-faction cons and pros.

If you're playing with a sub-faction that's apparently weak against your enemy's sub-faction on purpose, that's just you asking to have more difficulty.
If you got matched with a sub-faction that would eat you alive without knowing, that's just your luck.

Uhm, that's not how balance works. Balance is when your chances to win depend on your skill and are not predetermined by matchup. Granted, for each subfaction there are subfactions which are harder to fight, but it shouldn't escalate to "faction X has very little chances to win against faction Y at any equal skill level". Then random becomes the only option, because players will change their faction according to other player's faction, then other player will do the same and we're back to square one. There's also such thing as skill threshold however, which means you can't play a specific faction effectively until you have enough skill. Like, if Allies are all about micro, you don't want to attack-move into enemy positions, you have to play carefully and avoid losses, which takes more skill than pure spam.

If you're asking for all to be balanced, then all sides will have no weakness/strong points which give them uniqueness.
Weakness/Strong points such as have superior AA but have little to no siege. Have very high mobility but weak firepower. Have precision strikes but only work on specific target type. Etc.

And this is right, because a faction which is good in everything would be indeed imbalanced. You cannot roll China over with heavy tanks as SC, but at the same time you won't outmaneuver SC as China. But if it'd turn into "you can't win China as SC nor in early, nor in mid, nor in late game", then it is not balanced.

[X1Destroy]

If you're playing with a sub-faction that's apparently weak against your enemy's sub-faction on purpose, that's just you asking to have more difficulty.

If you got matched with a sub-faction that would eat you alive without knowing, that's just your luck.

This sounds like Zerohour, and it sucks. A faction have to always loose to B faction no matter who or how you use it is stupid game design.
 

 

The matchups between other factions such as China and USA for example or anything at all really between the vanilla factions can be won as either side without massive handicaps to either side.

Even between the old factions there were still some imbalances between them. Try USA vs Psicorps on a big map where they can't rushes, you will see the entire US arsenal become obsolete very quickly.
SC vs China is both a hit and miss. SC may end up in a series of EMP and stuffs then got stuck. China can get rushed and be destroyed before theirs units can retaliate.
 

Edited by X1Destroy, 05 January 2017 - 10:18 PM.

[CLAlstar]

Even between the old factions there were still some imbalances between them. Try USA vs Psicorps on a big map where they can't rushes, you will see the entire US arsenal become obsolete very quickly.

 

You do realize that with changes inplemented in 3.3 USA from worst matchup against psicorps becomes the best one? All those sorts of anti-infantry untis + changes to bulldog + hummingbirds give you an insane edge.

 

SC vs China is both a hit and miss. SC may end up in a series of EMP and stuffs then got stuck. China can get rushed and be destroyed before theirs units can retaliate.

 

Call me crazy, but with introduction of hijackers for SC + tyrant change + trikes being immune to EMP and several other chances, i consider SC vs China an even matchup.

[X1Destroy]

I still have some troubles fighting Masterminds supported by Magnetrons, covered by Gehena and Gatlings. The infantry spam can be beaten now though, it sure did get better.

Maybe. It also depends on the players as well. SC is not an easy to play faction after all.

Edited by X1Destroy, 05 January 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[CLAlstar]

First thing is to deal with infantry. Tanya IFV, Rito Troopers, Athenas should do the job from safe range. About elliminating threats like Magnetrons/Mastrerminds, i feel like its good to have several jets. Either you wait with your engage on Black Widow and pick up most valuable targets or you hit it up with Hummingbirds to the front followed by rest of jets and your main army. Reminder: USA is the only faction capable of lowering all main stats (speed, armor, damage) at once with Hummingbird+Warhwak/Target Painter combo. However, going into this type of engage you need to be ready to go all in.

[JeagerEX12]

What happened to the stolen tech infantry units are they removed in version 3.3? Because I did not see it in the Mental Omega website after its update.

[Handepsilon]

Removed or campaign only. And making sprites (Infantries) are harder than voxels (tanks)

[Divine]

What happened to the stolen tech infantry units are they removed in version 3.3? Because I did not see it in the Mental Omega website after its update.

Cyborg and Prism Hoplite are still in the game, a Fortress map has some Cyborgs for the defender. Virus was repurposed, now it's a normal unit for the Epsilon, all of their subfactions can train her once they built the Cloning Vats, or a Pandora Hub and any upgrade in Infantry Only mode. She's been nerfed to hell, and can be killed by 3 attack dogs, or by pretty much any other dedicated anti-infantry infantry. Pretty pathetic for an end-tier infantry that costs 1500$ (Seriously! That POS can't even one shot kill a Tesla Trooper from full HP!). The rest of the stolen techs were completely removed, as far as I know, with the exception of the Cyborg Commando, who can be obtained as usual. The CC is also featured on the same Fortress map where you can find Cyborgs.

Edited by Divine, 06 January 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[CLAlstar]

Virus is not nerfed to hell. Despite nerfs, it is still pretty viable unit, capable of elliminating even Foehn infantry blobs in small groups. I see them very often in the field during multiplayer games.

[Divine]

Virus is not nerfed to hell. Despite nerfs, it is still pretty viable unit, capable of elliminating even Foehn infantry blobs in small groups. I see them very often in the field during multiplayer games.

Well, Epsilon has no better anti-infantry. Regardless of that, I think she's still vastly overpriced, considering her performance. And damn she's slow as hell. Compare her to the Foehn Zorbfloater, who's only slightly more expensive (if you do the looming efficiently), but is so much better against infantry blobs, is amphibious, can levitate enemy vehicles, and srsly wtf is that self-healing. And it's also lower tech, not requiring a Reprocessor.

Edited by Divine, 06 January 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[CLAlstar]

Overpriced? 750 for one is not that bad of deal - remnder, she is avaible after cloning vats.

[Divine]

Overpriced? 750 for one is not that bad of deal - remnder, she is avaible after cloning vats.

Hmmm, true, how could I forget about that?

[X1Destroy]

Viruses are damn annoying if you mix them with initiates and adepts. As long as they are still alive they will keep spreading the gas like cancer.

What is nerfed to hell is the British sniper. No gas, expensive cost, slow and weak attack, doesn't heal itself in gas.......The only way to use it is IFV mode, deploying it on the field is completely pointless as it will mostly die to some stupid shits like Invader rushes. Because it take so long and so much to train one, you don't want to loose it recklessly.

The riot trooper on the other hand is a freaking superman. It just never die unless concentrated on, and it's good at both long and close range. And it can clear garrison.

Edited by X1Destroy, 06 January 2017 - 03:03 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Viruses are damn annoying if you mix them with initiates and adepts. As long as they are still alive they will keep spreading the gas like cancer.

For all we know, those gasses might actually cause cancers

 

Jokes aside, I seem to never be able to position Sniper on safe zone from Virus and shoot her good in campaign mode (maybe once). At best I can make her die, before the shot from the Virus herself kills him

 

And yeah, Riot Trooper is a great infantry killer, used it in Ghost Hunt as lawnmower in the Scorpion Cell base with reckless abandon

[Damfoos]

Speaking of Riot Troopers, why their thermonuclear (you won't convince me those are flashbang ) grenades don't clear buildings in IFV mode? Is it a bug or a feature? Also, their description says they are immune to dog attacks, but in fact dogs can eat them just fine. So where's the error, in their description or in their code?

Edited by Damfoos, 06 January 2017 - 03:49 PM.