5129 replies to this topic

[arandompersons]

aw man.... has anyone ever beaten the superweapons challenge? i can't even get close on easy -_-

 

kinda wish the a.i in the mission: dance with blood, would produce some units here and there. just for a bit of a hand... its hard having to ready up about 10 geheena platform things just to repel those kirov hordes... and then darn tanks firing up the cliff face >_< but either way... its fun. just haven't gotten past the last 1:40 mark on the timer. also. will we ever get the background music for that mission as playable music in-game? it sounds nice

 

mission: relentless, oh god... i end up getting bombarded to bits right around the final minutes of the weather controller activating. i also get my butt handed to me early on. but thats probs my fault for charging at a horde of apocalypse tanks i think they are :L but i'll figure a way out to fend em off. eventually.

Edited by arandompersons, 20 December 2018 - 09:02 PM.

[Divine]

It's probably too late now considering the game is huge now, but probably the best way to keep SP and MP separate would be to make a copy of every unit and building with a specific tag (like MP) so changing the MP stats wouldn't affect the missions. But this would be probably insane amounts of work.

I think that's a truly horrible idea. I mean no offense. Doing that, and then having different rules for SP and MP would literally make them separate games. It would violate the very integrity of the mod. It would also further divide the player base, SP players would become even more SP dedicated and MP players would play even less SP, and the divide would cause even more confusion in feedback & suggestions. I also fear that it would end in a feedback loop, as being completely unbound by SP would allow even more radical changes, and the sentiment would go from "because we must" to " because we can".

 

IMHO commandos having radically different stats in some missions is bad enough.

Edited by Divine, 20 December 2018 - 10:19 PM.

[Solais]

SP and MP games most of the time work by radically different rulesets to begin with. When campaigns in RTS games were nothing more than just skirmish games with restricted tech (and highly boring), that argument still worked. But when it tries to be more, tell an actual story, have special events that make the player feel different emotions as part of an experience, all that needs changes that line up with that experience. MO, with its complex and highly enjoyable missions is already way too far from the old "skirmish campaign" design. It's already a "separate game", and I love the mod for it. Imo, it's the best RTS campaign since Starcraft 2. So yes, I agree, separate rulesets would make the SP and MP even more different games, than what they already are, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a positive. If it would make the campaign even more enjoyable, more experimental, more unique, and decouple all the MP changes screwing with its playability, then I'm all for it.

Edited by Solais, 20 December 2018 - 11:52 PM.

[SukaHati]

I recall that Supreme Commander 2 have difference stat for its SP and MP.

[Polaris Starnor]

It’s not like Skirmish is being modified, we’ll just have to indicate that campaign units have different stats or that campaign units have the “realistic” stats where in skirmish/MP can be altered versions for balance, like it is with heroes, most notably Libra, she’s a god by all standards in campaign, but is watered down heavily in skirmish/MP for balancing. Separating the campaign from Skirmish and MP can lead to better missions with units as intended lorewise, along with improved balancing within matches. In the end, I don’t find it likely for the mentalmeisters to deal with the extra workload, especially with a common example of how the field bureau’s existence changed missions for so long.

[Endless]

It's probably too late now considering the game is huge now, but probably the best way to keep SP and MP separate would be to make a copy of every unit and building with a specific tag (like MP) so changing the MP stats wouldn't affect the missions. But this would be probably insane amounts of work.

I think that's a truly horrible idea. I mean no offense. Doing that, and then having different rules for SP and MP would literally make them separate games. It would violate the very integrity of the mod. It would also further divide the player base, SP players would become even more SP dedicated and MP players would play even less SP, and the divide would cause even more confusion in feedback & suggestions. I also fear that it would end in a feedback loop, as being completely unbound by SP would allow even more radical changes, and the sentiment would go from "because we must" to " because we can".

IMHO commandos having radically different stats in some missions is bad enough.

The community is already divided when it comes to SP and MP.
Besides most of the complaints regarding MP balance appear to stem directly from SP as MO itself is, first and foremost, designed primarily around the campaign.

At least that's the way I see things and why our lord and savior doesnt like taking risks

[Drezalnor]

It's probably too late now considering the game is huge now, but probably the best way to keep SP and MP separate would be to make a copy of every unit and building with a specific tag (like MP) so changing the MP stats wouldn't affect the missions. But this would be probably insane amounts of work.

I think that's a truly horrible idea. I mean no offense. Doing that, and then having different rules for SP and MP would literally make them separate games. It would violate the very integrity of the mod. It would also further divide the player base, SP players would become even more SP dedicated and MP players would play even less SP, and the divide would cause even more confusion in feedback & suggestions. I also fear that it would end in a feedback loop, as being completely unbound by SP would allow even more radical changes, and the sentiment would go from "because we must" to " because we can".

IMHO commandos having radically different stats in some missions is bad enough.

The community is already divided when it comes to SP and MP.
Besides most of the complaints regarding MP balance appear to stem directly from SP as MO itself is, first and foremost, designed primarily around the campaign.

At least that's the way I see things and why our lord and savior doesnt like taking risks

Divided is putting things mildly.To be honest,the community is literally polarized when it comes to SP and MP.
MO's primary focus is the SP campaign,not the MP grounds.

[Solais]

That's actually completely normal for any game that got both a strong SP and a strong MP. And I'm sure that MO focuses on both.

 

But, it is true that I noticed that C&C games often seem to have more SP fans. With Starcraft, I always heard about the e-sports and the multiplayer and all that, all the time. While when it comes to C&C, what can be heard is people always talking about the FMV cutscenes and such, rarely about multiplayer.

Edited by Solais, 22 December 2018 - 11:18 AM.

[Damfoos]

It's probably too late now considering the game is huge now, but probably the best way to keep SP and MP separate would be to make a copy of every unit and building with a specific tag (like MP) so changing the MP stats wouldn't affect the missions. But this would be probably insane amounts of work.

 

Another option would be to put the most dangerous (to missions) changes into a separate INI file just like the extra game options (like MCV start, perma radar etc) and make this an always enabled "option" (enabled with no need for checkbox that is), however this means 2 rules.ini will have to be maintained, which requires additional effort.

Edited by Damfoos, 22 December 2018 - 02:49 PM.

[Divine]

Or just take the hard route and update missions to not be fugged by changes made for MP balancing.

[Drezalnor]

That's actually completely normal for any game that got both a strong SP and a strong MP. And I'm sure that MO focuses on both.
 
But, it is true that I noticed that C&C games often seem to have more SP fans. With Starcraft, I always heard about the e-sports and the multiplayer and all that, all the time. While when it comes to C&C, what can be heard is people always talking about the FMV cutscenes and such, rarely about multiplayer.

Exactly.Whichever C&C game you pick up,you'll find a giant majority of the fans to be SP.But Starcraft has more MP fans inspite of a robust SP(tbh).Warcraft however is a totally different league.

[Solais]

It's almost weird how Starcraft 2 was more MP focused despite also having the best damn RTS campaign ever made.

[Revan0123]

I mean...Mental Omega started off as a MP balance mod back in the olden days so...I guess keep it on the current course?

[Handepsilon]

That's actually completely normal for any game that got both a strong SP and a strong MP. And I'm sure that MO focuses on both.

But, it is true that I noticed that C&C games often seem to have more SP fans. With Starcraft, I always heard about the e-sports and the multiplayer and all that, all the time. While when it comes to C&C, what can be heard is people always talking about the FMV cutscenes and such, rarely about multiplayer.

When you have GIs that mauls practically everything, there really wouldn't be much to talk about

[Derxwna Kapsyla]

I mean...Mental Omega started off as a MP balance mod back in the olden days so...I guess keep it on the current course?

 

It's course eventually changed into "Giving Yuri a campaign", on top of the rebalancing, which in turn gave it more lean toward a Single-player focused experience (See also: half the advertisement for the game in history was "Come play the only mod with a fully complete campaign for Yuri!").

 

However, the mod itself is strongly frequented by people who like SP and MP, there is no sway to one side over the other, despite what some people might believe. The missions are high quality and engaging, and multiplayer is, at its peak, almost as active as Red Alert 1 in terms of active players (if I remember right). There is no dedicated focus, it's a mod that attempts to maintain a balance between both experiences, because both are extremely popular and prolific within the community. It is, however, a very difficult tight-rope act to maintain, as changes could easily create issues in either the Campaign or Multiplayer experience.

Edited by Derxwna Kapsyla, 22 December 2018 - 09:07 PM.

[Tathmesh]

It's almost weird how Starcraft 2 was more MP focused despite also having the best damn RTS campaign ever made.

The MP and SP were basically two different games.

SP was basically fanservice, with crazy, broken variants on preexisting units like the Tal'darim Vanguard.

[Solais]

SP always need to be a bit broken for the sake of the experience and enjoyment.

[Drezalnor]

It's almost weird how Starcraft 2 was more MP focused despite also having the best damn RTS campaign ever made.

The MP and SP were basically two different games.

SP was basically fanservice, with crazy, broken variants on preexisting units like the Tal'darim Vanguard.

I never liked the Tal'darim Vanguard at all,it was always the Nerazim Annihilator that seemed nuts and likable.Though as a character,I can't get enough of Alarak.

Talking of MP,the Co-op is at it's best now.With Tychus and Zeratul finally becoming Co-op Commanders,it feels surreal.I really want Tosh as a Co-op Commander as well.

Edited by Drezalnor, 25 December 2018 - 01:32 AM.

[Opus Custom Tank]

Why 3 Epsilons Apocalypse Tanks running to out of battle area in Dawnbreaker? Yuri have a plans for them?

Edited by Opus Custom Tank, 24 December 2018 - 12:59 PM.

[TerumasaReal]

Yeah, I didn't see it. As I said before, not much time - I'll re-read everything when I can.

Hummingbird artwork update is mentioned in changelog, but the unit image on official website is still not updated.

 

It was mentioned in 2 weeks ago: https://forums.revor...-etc/?p=1094643