5129 replies to this topic

[DarkEmblem]

The problem with relying on those clouds is that only newer players will remain standing in those. Every other player will just back up a bit (or advance a bit) and just continue whatever they were doing. Those clouds aren't reliable at all.

[Divine]

I'm not playing SC in PvP so can't judge their true usefullness from personal experience, but I wouldn't build them because of very low accuracy and mediocre damage against even their intended targets anyway. In PvE I don't use them because of that, they just feel weak and boring to use. While the armor debuff is nice, it is hardly useful if you'll never manage to hit the target you need to debuff, and unlike with the other artillery you can't rely on this unit to counter infantry or vehicles either because of low firepower and low accuracy (sure SCUDs aren't really useful vs moving units, but their range and damage against structures makes up for that, and Magnetrons affect one of the key parameters of units - their mobility). It is somewhat reliable against buildings and maybe deployed GIs/GGIs if you can come close, but that's IF you are lucky enough to hit them. So why would one actively use a unit which is effective only against one kind of targets, and even this efficiency is mediocre? That's why they aren't appealing to use. I would suggest to either give their shots bigger AoE/more poison clouds per explosion, or do one more thing: make them spawn not poison clouds but some sort of acid clouds (of grey, pink, yellow or any other distinct color), and make those clouds deal more damage to vehicles and structures than poison does. If that's not enough,make these clouds apply the armor debuff to any vehicle they touch (so it won't matter if you hit the vehicle with the initial shot or not, the clouds will do the job).

It would kinda makes sense. Rename the unit to Acid Splatter. Instead of virus clouds, let the residual gas be acid vapor (with a new animation, different from virus clouds both in shape and color), and the unit itself should be repurposed to be an anti-ground, artillery type equivalent of the Oxidizer, debuffing ground units and structures from large distances, with area of effect. There's only one problem: the unit would need a new voice set, because things like "The doctor's worst nightmare." would not make much sense with acid canisters.

 

By the way, I think the Oxidizer kinda contradicts logic. How come that all the acid that literally eats away the armor of the targeted unit, does no direct damage whatsoever? Especially to flying infantry. It would make much more sense if the acid warhead did damage over time, perhaps in addition to the armor debuff, which could also get more and more severe as the acid dissolves the armor of the targeted unit. I'm not talking about a buff here, but rather a rework of the way the Oxidizer works.

Edited by Divine, 18 February 2017 - 01:56 PM.

[triatmoic]

I was supersized aswell to know that oxidizer doesn't deal damage.

Edited by triatmoic, 18 February 2017 - 02:00 PM.

[Damfoos]

Well, harsh freezing with a cryo beam isn't harmless to infantry either, yet in MO it deals no damage to infantry which hardly makes any sense - maybe the armor of a soldier WILL become fragile upon freezing, but the guy wearing it will die long before that due to overcooling. What's the point of freezing infantry anyway? The beam speeds up too slowly to freeze a Tanya sneaking into your base, and non-commando infantry is too squishy to survive until the last freezing frame. Can't it just slowly kill infantry instead of freezing?

Edited by Damfoos, 18 February 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[X1Destroy]

The plague splatter really need to actually hit the targets before any other buffs. Remove the stupid random accuracy, increase the projectile speed and make it always hits everything it aimed at. On mountainous maps it's freaking horrible.

It is a siege unit but isn't a bit good at that. The only thing that it can do is killing massed infantry with the spreading gas, but buildings and other stuffs doesn't give a damn about it.

Edited by X1Destroy, 18 February 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[CLAlstar]

In other words, make them TS Nod Arty which was completely broken?

[Tyhednus]

Even in groups of 10 or 20 there is a chance they miss the target. On flat terrain this issue is not as apparent.

[X1Destroy]

In other words, make them TS Nod Arty which was completely broken?

 

How about Athena cannon, Prism tank......? Were they completely broken? No.

No point for a siege unit that can't even hit a static target without having to spam in a group of 10 or more and pray for RNG.
 

[Damfoos]

Please increase the volume of Tigr's machine gun, its wispering can barely be heard.

Also, is it possible to implement the "unit under attack" warning for EVA? I recall TI developers saying it should be possible to do on TS engine but noone bothered so far, so maybe it isn't impossible on RA2 engine either? Especially with Ares magic being a thing.

[Bernadiroe]

If we're gonna talk about realistic effects on what weapons being used, why oh why infantries can withstand a tank cannon thousand of times before they die?

 

Realistic effects are nonsense in a game where there's a rock-paper-scissors system. We don't need to be as accurate as possible, otherwise it will be completely broken and unbalanced game.

 

Why the Tactical Nuke not destroy ALL building in its vicinity? It's a freaking nuclear!

The mushroom cloud gone too fast! It should cover the area with heavy smoke and radiation far longer!

Why lightning storm destroy so much buildings while surely it should just make electrical failure and minor to medium damage.

Why Charon's weapon can't erase building even tho it supposed to be a superior one compared to what C.Legion has?

Why a blast from Mastodon's powerful plasma railgun won't melt any soldier in an instant?

Why any units can fire their weapon indefinitely? Surely they have limited ammo supply on-board??

Why your units and defense structures not immediately attacking the discovered spies?

Why there's no hole left where submerged units drilled down?

 

--------------------

 

As for the Plague Splatter, I do agree it needs a buff for being an artillery. Despite being far cheaper, it should at least deal more damage to buildings, if anything...

Don't buff it to become effective to infantry and armored units, instead make it focused on structural damage alone. So despite far cheaper, it has about the same damage compared to other expensive artillery, at the cost of only effective against buildings.

[Magma1Lord]

I would love a unit that can place booby traps just like the NOD saboteurs or the GLA soldiers could. 

 

Maybe for the scorpion cell or the confederation.

[Admiral_Pit]

Alstar did have a point in one of his vids.  Looking at things from his P.O.V, I can understand the frustration, and Iron Dragons could use a nerf too, and this coming from me, who loves this unit. While it's true they were meant to counter the durability of Foehn ground forces, non-Foehn suffers most from their more fragile units.

I'd like to suggest nerfing its RoF first by quite a bit, as one Iron Dragon is enough to keep an area under the damaging AoE influence alone. Imagine if you tell it to shoot an area on a map with narrow paths (Such as Country Swing). Only the more durable units can get through, and even then, they'd be fairly damaged. Sure the counter to em (besides preventing em from ever happening) is via flyers, or base defenses, but those 2 things can easily be filled. The true counters I can only see against em are Coronia's air divisions (which will also bust through Soviet AA), Jets (if little to no AA is present), Fin/Alize (only against about 1-3 Iron Dragons (the initial shots from the artillery must connect to do damage), and if Terrors aren't close), Zorbfloaters (same as Fin/Alize, but can only kill em by dropping them on cliffs or water), sneaky stealing/mind control (if no detectors), and probably something fast that can get to the minimum range fast enough, and that's considering if it's just Iron Dragons without escorts.

 

Long story short, let's start with nerfing Iron Dragon RoF a good amount. That way, it can at least prevent them from denying ground as much as they can now, but still be able to fulfill their main role to give Soviets something to take on Foehn's heavy ground units with.

 

 

While we're on the subject of Stolen Tech, the 3 that I find to be the most OP ones are Salamanders, Iron Dragons, and Scykles. Salamanders for being so powerful with their range and confusion is what makes em hard to kill, with only mass infantry (Giantsbanes have a good shot against em) and base defenses being the best counters, the former option easily countered by Epsilon's Viruses and other anti-infantry methods. Scykles... well, they're actually mostly just OP against ground stuff that are not immune to radiation (well, at least heavy armor can probably get some shots in), and if Iron Curtain/Guard is on the field, and I explained the situations with Iron Dragons already.

[DarkEmblem]

I think that with the plague splatter you could go multiple directions to make it a better unit. Either you could follow it's current design. Low impact damage -> low damage toxic cloud -> armor debuff. And focus on buffing the armor debuff by making the area of effect much bigger. 3x3 for example.

 

You could also decrease the armor debuff duration to 7 seconds for example, and make the armor debuff stackable. (If it isn't stackable already like other debuff units and it actually makes sense to make a bigger amount of the unit if it's stackable, otherwise only like 3 would be needed)

 

This would make the unit a great unit to have in fights, even if it may miss it's target slightly, it will atleast debuff the units near the impact.

 

Or you could go to the other end of the spectrum and focus on "plague".

Removing the armor debuff completely and make the projectile leave a much bigger toxic cloud. Units within would get poisoned, receiving damage over time. There could be a timer on units which are poisoned, allowing them to get damage over time for x seconds after they left the cloud. aka No impact damage -> moderate toxic cloud damage + damage over time for "x" seconds -> No armor debuff -> infantry units "explode" when killed, spreading the disease.

Good vs infantry & moderate against buildings, no damage over time against vehicles.

 

This would make the unit more of a "zoning" unit. Great to use on turtle-styled players since creating a plague in their defences would either force them to attack you,  spread their units a lot more or just move closer to the center of their base (being pushed back by the plague) so you can pick off a few defensive buildings. Not great to use in head-on combat since the toxic may affect your own units aswell.  But you could create a "wall" of toxic by forcing the units to attack the ground, zoning the opponent. 

 

Personally I would choose for the "plague" since the armor debuff would not only be "the oxidizer but against ground" but SC has malver already aswell, which is able to debuff ground already too. Also would it not be a "unit you just want to have in every fight" but a unit which could be used more creatively and in different situations.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 19 February 2017 - 04:06 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Actually the no damage over time on vehicle part would be false since the cloud damages tanks as well

 

And for some reason, probably buildings as well

Edited by Handepsilon, 19 February 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[siegelad]

Are the Paladin and Tank Destroyer tanks going to be trainable?

[DarkEmblem]

 

Actually the no damage over time on vehicle part would be false since the cloud damages tanks as well

 

And for some reason, probably buildings as well

 

I did say, not against tanks. And with damage over time I mean  AFTER leaving the cloud. It does damage when they are WITHIN the cloud 

 

Are the Paladin and Tank Destroyer tanks going to be trainable?

Probably not mate.

Edited by DarkEmblem, 19 February 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[isaac103]

Would it be possible to get a cheat mode for those who just want to mess around in the game (The cheats option should be locked when playing online though)?

[Bernadiroe]

Poison DOT while within + poison DOT with timer when within and/or outside of the cloud + more cloud when infantry die from it seems really deadly...

Would probably need to raise the price abit, maybe 1400~1600.

 

So there will be 2 ongoing damage from it, DOT from being inside the could, plus a timed DOT, which I assume the timer will always get back to max duration when touching the cloud again?

 

Then the cloud generated from Plague Splatter needs to be a different one, a specific one that triggers the ongoing DOT effect when touched.

 

Also I suppose they need a buff on damage, maybe on armored unit or structure, since it's said that it has explosives inside the barrel beside corrosive agents.

 

 

about Iron Dragon

They may be powerful in damage but their armor is pretty thin. Few rocketeers can kill them quickly. 

 

But seeing from Soviet's stolen tech, I think all of them are pretty powerful, compared to other stolen techs....

 

Grumble deny air units, in very large radius

Iron Dragon deny ground units, in siege unit-range

Apocalypse Tank deny both air and ground units, in medium range

Scykle deny most ground units and have portable iron curtain

 

...okay maybe they need abit of nerf... or other stolen units need massive buffs.

[DarkEmblem]

Hmm I actually meant it as 1 ongoing damage which continues for x seconds after leaving. But as long as you're within the cloud, the timer doesn't go down. :^) 

[Admiral_Pit]

 

about Iron Dragon

They may be powerful in damage but their armor is pretty thin. Few rocketeers can kill them quickly. 

 

But seeing from Soviet's stolen tech, I think all of them are pretty powerful, compared to other stolen techs....

 

Grumble deny air units, in very large radius

Iron Dragon deny ground units, in siege unit-range

Apocalypse Tank deny both air and ground units, in medium range

Scykle deny most ground units and have portable iron curtain

 

...okay maybe they need abit of nerf... or other stolen units need massive buffs.

 

Consider Iron Dragons when escorted by standard Soviet forces, or at least AA, so that's a no on Rocketeers.  I only see a Coronia air mass being able to stop em effectively with few losses, and that's factoring in each Soviet subfaction's various compositions.

 

When reviewing each Soviet Stolen Tech, here's how it goes from my view:

 

-Grumble:  Designed to counter Allied jets specifically (though it can counter other jets).  So they may struggle against spaced out flyers, heavily-armored ones, or if a single air unit baits the rocket for other air units to close in for the kill.

-Apoc:  All-around, fit for Soviet armored divisions.  They'd probably suffer against decently bulky anti-armor infantry though.

-Scykle:  Designed to mostly take down Epsilon's infantry and light units with ease.

-Iron Dragon:  Meant for hurting Foehn's bulky ground forces.

 

 

As for the other factions, well, maybe someone else can explain em.

Edited by Admiral_Pit, 20 February 2017 - 02:05 AM.