5129 replies to this topic

[DarkEmblem]

Start bringing norio his health + armor into the equotation and we're done. Alone he can hardly do anything against a single AA turret, and one turret covers a lot of ground thus building a few shouldn't be a problem. The game shouldn't make static defences completely useless. And like I said, just a few AA turrets make Norio a lot less useful than other heroes. 

Eagles on the other hand need a small nerf to damage against buildings.

[Destroyencio]

Norio can 1v1 Flak Cannons, he can also 1v1 Gattling cannons iirc. Same with Shrike Nests. Allied Patriot Missiles are the exception to this

[Damfoos]

Speaking of AA, Patriot is the only good stationary basic AA in the game, IMO. Flak cannons deal pathetic damage (better get some flak troopers for same price instead, unless you're facing buzzards or thors), gatling cannons deal almost no damage to heavy aircraft no matter how fast they spin, and shrike nests are not reliable, sometimes jets can escape shrike missiles even if the shrike escorts the jet all the way through the map. I find it wrong when a small group of AA infantry is more effective that a stationary AA emplacement while costs less.

[X1Destroy]

Truely, AA turrets are only good for when you facing helicopters or rocketeers who can make your AA infantry useless but are weak vs structures.

Against the likes of jets and Kirovs they're crap. Especially for Foehn since spamming Knightframes is better than using shrike nests in just about every way but range.

Best AA is the PF cryo turret, but that one is tier 3 and cost so much power.

[SPCell]

Questions:

 

1. Why Chinese general doesn't say "Nuclear missle approaching! Flee! Get me out of here!" after the player launches a nuke in Dragonstorm?

2. Why Kirovs don't use "Bombardiers to your station" line along with their scream while going down?

3. Will tan (Chinese color from campaign) and dark red (used by Soviets in few missions) colors be added in Skirmish and Multiplayer?

Edited by SPCell, 11 April 2017 - 08:41 PM.

[mevitar]

I don't think Eagles should be able to snipe a power plant with just four. No other faction can do this with their jets without some kind of damage modifier(in 3.3.1 anyways). With the speed and armor of the Eagles they can pretty much get away scotch free. Also currently the Eagle just out classes every other Ally fighter, more damage than a Stormchild, and more armor than a Harrier.owly pass by a lot of stationary defenses.

Eagles outclassing other fighters is intended. They're the best of the best after all. 4 of them were always able to kill a powerplant in 1 run, even in 3.0, and they weren't buffed since then.

I'm not sure about tech (lab) sniping, though. I've heard that 4 of them will kill a lab in one run, and i don't think that should happen, because it makes Barracudas pointless.

[TeslaCruiser]

 

I don't think Eagles should be able to snipe a power plant with just four. No other faction can do this with their jets without some kind of damage modifier(in 3.3.1 anyways). With the speed and armor of the Eagles they can pretty much get away scotch free. Also currently the Eagle just out classes every other Ally fighter, more damage than a Stormchild, and more armor than a Harrier.owly pass by a lot of stationary defenses.

Eagles outclassing other fighters is intended. They're the best of the best after all. 4 of them were always able to kill a powerplant in 1 run, even in 3.0, and they weren't buffed since then.

I'm not sure about tech (lab) sniping, though. I've heard that 4 of them will kill a lab in one run, and i don't think that should happen, because it makes Barracudas pointless.

 

Yes, I know eagles are supposed to be good at buildings and overall the best jet, that is why I ask about Norio's tweaks to obtain a less insane anti-structure combo

 

And about the Eagles role, they are not as good as harriers against armor but they are the best jet in any other cathegory. Is that ok? the best anti-infantry (and AoE) good anti-armor, the best speed and armor.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 13 April 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[codyfun123]

• 
  

  that is why I ask about Norio's tweaks to obtain a less insane anti-structure combo

  Norio is a hero. Black Eagles are high-cooldown jets. Why don't you have a proportionate amount of mobile AA after knowing such a combined threat is on the battlefield?
• The complaining about EMP Mine/Grid plopping continues, as demonstrated in this ridiculous tournament match clip. Decreasing its build radius will indeed nerf it but will not truly stop the issue, plus will weaken normal usage of the building. There is another feature we can use to deal with this: AttachEffect with Negative Delay (no renewal). If these trap structures either spawn with an AttachEffect with a FirepowerMultiplier=0 or an animation that EMPs them for some duration, they can no longer be used to destroy enemy harassment forces with impunity.

Edited by codyfun123, 18 April 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[Graion Dilach]

AttachEffect doesn't support negative delays - those are read as infinite with an integer overflow. At least back in the days I coded it in. I have no idea where you got the idea that would work, Attacheffects are too much of primitive fire-and-forget stuff for such an effect to be triggered.

[Starkku]

AttachEffect doesn't support negative delays - those are read as infinite with an integer overflow. At least back in the days I coded it in. I have no idea where you got the idea that would work, Attacheffects are too much of primitive fire-and-forget stuff for such an effect to be triggered.

 

Likely got the idea from Ares documentation, which specifically states that negative values cause the effect to be only applied once, and never renewed afterwards. Might not be how you implemented it but it is how it works right now.

Edited by Starkku, 14 April 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[Graion Dilach]

Ohwait... delays. Right, I implemented that. Those prolly got an update to not even tick these days, but initially they ticked. On the other hand, even if they tick, they start on what, 2 billion ticks as delay, so it would take years in RL time to get them reapplied.

For some reason I read duration, sorry then. I shouldn't post stuff after I get home from my night shift.

[NorthFireZ]

Eagles have pretty short reloadtimes. And unless you have a couple dozen anti-air infantry or a couple t3 anti-air, no Eagle is going down. At tier two, however, you can kiss those reactors goodbye, rendering any AA defenses useless. While they are less effective per shot against vehicles than harriers, they are arguably better equipped to vehicle snipe because of their speed and armor.
Btw, Stormchild still have the best speed but they are made out of paper mache so it doesn't matter.
Eagles were the ultimate fighters in RA2 sure, but they didn't have any freaking competition then. Now we have given them to a faction that not only can tech snipe effectively without much repercussions but also macro up to an insane unbeatable ball. This is not even mentioning the horror that is suppressors.

Tldr; Norio+ 4 Eagles drop labs in seconds. Better than any airdrop or subversive factions. To fix, reduce Norio's dps against large buildings and buff stationary anti air defenses.

[TeslaCruiser]

 

• 
  

  that is why I ask about Norio's tweaks to obtain a less insane anti-structure combo

  Norio is a hero. Black Eagles are high-cooldown jets. Why don't you have a proportionate amount of mobile AA after knowing such a combined threat is on the battlefield?
• The complaining about EMP Mine/Grid plopping continues. Decreasing its build radius will indeed nerf it but will not truly stop the issue, plus will weaken normal usage of the building. There is another feature we can use to deal with this: AttachEffect with Negative Delay (no renewal). If these trap structures either spawn with an AttachEffect with a FirepowerMultiplier=0 or an animation that EMPs them for some duration, they can no longer be used to destroy enemy harassment forces with impunity.

 

Mobile AA is way slower than Norio and/or Jets, the problem is the amount of damage they can deal by the time you reach the place. AA Defenses spam is the only good counter to keep your base safe unless you build a tiny base.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 14 April 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[Kpion]

Is there a chance that Allies will have an epic unit ?
Because they are the only faction that donesn't have epic unit.

[codyfun123]

Mobile AA is way slower than Norio and/or Jets, the problem is the amount of damage they can deal by the time you reach the place. AA Defenses spam is the only good counter to keep your base safe unless you build a tiny base.

How far do you need to travel that they can remain out of range for longer than a few seconds?

Is there a chance that Allies will have an epic unit ?
Because they are the only faction that donesn't have epic unit.

Allies don't need one, because they have Mercury/Shield/Hunter-Seeker.

[TeslaCruiser]

 

Mobile AA is way slower than Norio and/or Jets, the problem is the amount of damage they can deal by the time you reach the place. AA Defenses spam is the only good counter to keep your base safe unless you build a tiny base.

How far do you need to travel that they can remain out of range for longer than a few seconds

 

"the problem is the amount of damage they can deal by the time you reach the place" few seconds= dead lab/wf/pp/sw/..

 

Or let me put it this way: PF players don't build barracudas at all.

Edited by TeslaCruiser, 16 April 2017 - 12:55 AM.

[Damfoos]

Who needs Barracudas anyway. 2 of them (that's 4k) can't kill Barracks, and you need 4 for T3 defences... that's 8k worth of money, and while stationary AA (except Patriots and Skyrays) won't do much damage to them because their damage output is pathetic, Archers, Gattling tanks, GGIs and T3 AA will bring Barracudas down pretty quickly. The best use for them right now is for sniping tech and SWs, but it requires 8k and is just as vulnerable, except the results worth it. Unlike other jets, Barracudas are effective only against one kind of targets and can't do much against anything else, so you get them to snipe structures but you need to invest a lot to get results. Eagles are cheaper, faster, more universal and are available earlier, what makes them better in almost all cases except for SW sniping.

Edited by Damfoos, 16 April 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[NorthFireZ]

Technically the Baracuda is the most cost efficient building killer. 

[SPCell]

I have a suggestion to make Fake Psychic Domintor even more confusing for enemies: after fake domination is being activated, sky turns purple and we get Yuri's face and line like from original Dominator along with psychic wave, but it won't do any damage. This way enemy can be provoked into selling some key structures he thinks will be destroyed.

[Damfoos]

This is unnecessary. As the color change occurs and the animation + speech appear, you only have split seconds to react, and if a sell is considered complete (you get the money) with the first frame of sell (reversed buildup) animation then it makes sense to sell buildings in this little time, but if the last frame is where you get the money, then there's no point to sell anything if the sky have turned red already, because the blast will destroy selling structures before the animation is finished. Fake domination forces you to relocate your forces or cast force shield/curtain, and you do it straight after you heard the announcement, not when the blast is already happening. So I think the current fake domination is fine.

Besides, it doesn't make much sense. The lighting change, the voice and the image are all caused by a powerful impulse of psychic energy, with the lighting change being a side effect and the rest being the way to channel Yuri's will into the minds of the weak. Fake dominator doesn't generate such a psychic impulse, so there can't be same consequences of its use (lighting change, voice, image), it simply has no means to achieve that.