132 replies to this topic

[Creator]

I heard differently but it's moot.

Why? Do you really think they always store bombs on decks?

Japan lost the war for one main reason. The military culture and command lacked flexibility. The mindset of the Japanese in WW2 was still very heavily influenced by Busihido (The Way of the Warrior) Absolute obedience to Authority, no ability to qestion the orders of superiors, no ability to challenge someone of higher influence due to the loss of face for the superior.

Yeah, now say that they have incorrect language incorrect DNA, and in general, those japanese are error of nature. This is why they had lost. Briliant! You, americans always abuse cultures of another peoples. If you see that a people have another culture and another traditions then you cry that it is bad. How stupid it is!

Japanese had lost not because of features of their culture. They had lost because of real errors is fleet command, betrayal and lack of resources.

[wolfshadow]

Sorry guys: above 2 Guest posts were me.

AmericanMan: Creator had it right: Japanese carriers got caught reloading, IIRC, switching from Torpedos to Bombs or vice-versa... Not sure which.

Continuing my point above: The Transcripts of the translated Japanese intercepts made for some super interesting reading. I based my college History project on it. Guadalcanal was a very interesting campagin, starting with Ghormley's fuck ups and going from there. The Americans nearly got booted off that island so many times it's ridiculous. The Japanese high command, and thier intelligence screw ups were just rediculous. Thier refusal to belive the level of American forces was rediculous, and the midset that all American troops would surrender at the first losses was unreal.

Again, Mindset of the warriors, cultural arrogance in the extreme, and refusal to belive what the evidence showed due to what the General had sent to high command.

[AmericanMan]

Why do you think Americans are bigoted?


I don't want to fight I am only asking.

[wolfshadow]

AmericanMan: Again, this was a cultural phenomenon. The Japanese totally abhorred the idea of surrender, and anyone who surrendered to them was less than human... Civilian atrocities aside. (Mind you, look at how the serfs were treated in Fudal Japan. A Samurai/Lord had the legal right to behead someone pretty much on a whim untill the late 1700s/early 1800s) So Japan was not that far off those times when ww2 hit... We're talking 2 or 3 generations. I don't know about evil, but definately in need of reform.

[AmericanMan]

I know that they were stuck in the past. But morality does not change.

You know whats interesting? Japan got reformed by America forcing them to reform.I take pride out of that.
By the way I don't have disdain for today's Japan.

Edited by AmericanMan, 02 April 2006 - 10:48 AM.

[Creator]

Creator: Not american, Canadian, and a student of history. To ignore the mindset of the warriors fighting the battles is a drastic mistake. I did not say that the culture was bad, please do not put words into my mouth. I said that the culture hampered thier ability to fight a more flexible opponent. I have great admiration of the Japanese culture, and the warfighting ability of the Japanese. I have a copy of the Book of 5 Rings on my bookshelf.

It is incorrect approach. In you take into account only 1 war then you can think up as many reasons of defeat as you want. But if you will analyze longer period of history then you will understant that it is not right. One example: In WW1 Russia had lost Tsusima battle to Japan. Hence, you can make conclusion that mindset of japanese soldiers is better. In WW2 it took only 10 days for Red Army to destroy Kwantung Army (1 million soldiers and officers). Hence, you can make another conclusion: Rusian mindset is better. USA defeated Japan navy in WW2. Hence, American mindset is better. But USA had lost the war in Somalia, hence, mindset of Somalian primitive tribes is the best. Is it logical?

The Japanese slaughtered many people....
...
...

At first, look at youself. http://usatruth.by.ru/ - gigabytes of data describing thousands of cruel deeds made by americans during all of their history (photo and video footade is inside). After reading all of this, japanese seem angels in comparation with you.

At second, remember, if someone says such words as an other nation is so bloodlusty that it eats children then it means only that someone is trying to unleash international hatred and use you for some dirty purpose. I had heard a lot of such inventions of USA propaganda machine. Here are some of them:
-Soviets held all people in USSR in terror and killed them
-Cossacks eat children
-Russian idiots swim in ice-holes in winter
-Saddam Hussein dissolve his political opponents in sulfur acid.
-and etc, and so on.

Ones of such statements are incorrectly interpreted facts. For example, russians really swim in ice-holes in winter, but they do it to strenthen their organisms and increase immunity. Medics had already proven that such procedures really increase immunity. Another propganda statements are just naughty lie. For example, I was born in USSR and lived there until it collapsed and I saw nothing horrible. It was very comfortable there.

Please, before to believe in something ask yourself why people are telling it to you. And if you see a video footage then ask yourself where is it made (can be made in Hollywood). I don't want to justify Japan, but I see that all you are saying is just dirty propaganda. I'm familiar with the most of psychological tricks they usually use.

Edited by Creator, 02 April 2006 - 11:29 AM.

[AmericanMan]

There is proof of what the Japanese did in WW2.ALL WW2 historians agree on what the Japanese did in WW2.

Also jsut ask the Koreans,Philipinoes,and Chinese that lived through WW2.Or even American POWs.

I know propaganda is real. But my Government wanted to veil what the Japanese did durring WW2 so that they could portray them as the Democratic worlds outpost in the east.They didn't make up Japanese atrocities, they wanted to hide them.



P.S. I know what we did to the Native Americans.And we are not proud of it. But NO people are a sinless people. The Native Americans did horrible things to eachother and had been engaging in wars of conquest and butchery long before the Europeans arrived.
And when we arived we joined in with the wars.

One thing I don't like is when my fellow Americans say tripe like "The Indians had no concept of land owneriship." So why do you think they sold farm land to colonists for guns and jewelry!!!

Or that "They were peace loving saints." I'll tell you they were BRAVE and VISCOUS warriors.Especially the scalpers.


P.S.S. American atrocities started kicking up around westward expansion.

Edited by AmericanMan, 02 April 2006 - 11:55 AM.

[Capt.Drake]

Oh my good, don't start with, that!
The Americans did some stuff that was bad, Just think of the Indians
The Russians did some stuff that wasn't really great, like Stalin killed moire people then Hitler I think, ok, he had the power a bit longer
The Japans did some bad stuff, just as example, what they did to their POWs
The Germans ( I come from Germany) did enough bad stuff all over, just a big example Holocaust
The British commited crimes in the colonies, in fact they have invented the concetration camp

We could play this game the hole day as you see
So just say it like this, every country has it's posetiv and negativ sides
and just one thing we should learn from history, and don't try to look at history and try to make it looking better on a single country

[AmericanMan]

You are right.

[Pendaelose]

Oh my good, don't start with, that!
The Americans did some stuff that was bad, Just think of the Indians
The Russians did some stuff that wasn't really great, like Stalin killed moire people then Hitler I think, ok, he had the power a bit longer
The Japans did some bad stuff, just as example, what they did to their POWs
The Germans ( I come from Germany) did enough bad stuff all over, just a big example Holocaust
The British commited crimes in the colonies, in fact they have invented the concetration camp

We could play this game the hole day as you see
So just say it like this, every country has it's posetiv and negativ sides
and just one thing we should learn from history, and don't try to look at history and try to make it looking better on a single country

I would like too add to that that people are people, and even with our cultural differences, ANY culture is capable of atrocities... All people need is motivation and oportunity. There were several Psych studies on this topic. In one case, Grade school students were segregated by hair color (as an expierement) and the majority color (brown) was told they were better and that they had authority over the other students... Within minutes they were commiting child sized attrocities on thier friends and bullieing all the minorities.

[AmericanMan]

Children are ignorant and impressionable.That is how a strong hostile,beligerent,and fascist culture is able to populate itself with like minded fellows.

As adults we must be prepared to defend the the good and honorable points of our indivudual cultures.

My culture is danger because of idiocy.Our public schools decline to teach young Americans patriotism and a healthy knowledge of the government our ancestors created.They also teach children more about other nations history than our own.I remember being told to celebrate my Irish heritage even though my family has been in this country since the Mayflower.

Also anti violence hypocrites who who say nothing about gang, rap,and slasher flick culture like to attck the exposing of children to movies and literature that show sensible violence I.E. Westerns. And stick their children in sugar coated bubble worlds that ,when they pop open, leave them unprepared to see the insanity of the Whip Set culture.

As well our parents are declining to watch their children. Thinking that they will naturally grow into maturity and gain sensibility.

The only place you find inteligence and patriotism being taught are in the religous communities.

Edited by AmericanMan, 02 April 2006 - 05:10 PM.

[crave22]

Please, people, keep this from being a culture bashing fest. I think we can all agree that the world is fucked up as is.

Quit pointing fingers, dudes, because no culture is superior to another. There is no such thing as barabrians or less civilised people, only different cultures. Learn to understand them, and you won't learn about them the hard way.

Also, please stop all this bigotry. It gets us noplace except closer to a flame war. So what if my government and my culture have done terrible things? Does that make me the same as them? No. Same goes for you, Creator, and for that matter it goes for everyone. Just because my people and your people have done God-awful things doesn't mean we're the same as them.

Again, this is a discussion on WWII, not on who has the bigger... stick.

[Gredinus]

Hehe. While we are at culture bashing, Slovenia is the moust peaceful country of them all.
We had only 1 war (3 days) and it was the liberation war.
Moust of the agresive people hera are imports.

P.S. we arent beather than others (moust likely worse), only more peaceful.

[Creator]

The Americans did some stuff that was bad, Just think of the Indians
The Russians did some stuff that wasn't really great, like Stalin killed moire people then Hitler I think, ok, he had the power a bit longer
The Japans did some bad stuff, just as example, what they did to their POWs
The Germans ( I come from Germany) did enough bad stuff all over, just a big example Holocaust
The British commited crimes in the colonies, in fact they have invented the concetration camp

Totaly agree. You are simply reading my mind. But I want to add one more mind to all of this. Of course, any country have black pages of its history. We have to remember them and do not repeat errors of the past in the future. But also we must know that some people love to make overstatements. For example, I saw the article where one idiot wrote that soviets catched random people on the streets, cut their legs and placed legless body into space rocket for that legless man to undock 1st stage of rocket in some minutes after launch and die. Of course it is bullshit. The logic is simple: if a country made something bad then why could not it make something worse we don't know about? Lets think up some sensation "discoveries". People will definetely believe in it! We will be popular! Hurray! Forward!

Another bullshit direction is ensuring people that their country is the only "correct" country, it have the most blue sky, the most green trees, and etc. In generall, Russia is homeland of elefants! Our elefants are the best! (yes, AmericanMan, I lived in "sugar coated bubble" too for some time).

Sources of such bullshit are very different: politicans, journalists, writers and of course propaganda machines. Bullshit-producing industry exists in all countries, but my observations say that USA is leader in this branch nowdays.

Edited by Creator, 02 April 2006 - 06:58 PM.

[AmericanMan]

We are not.When I went to Elementary school (primary school) the only time they did anything CLOSE to saying America is great was that stupid melting pot crud.

I later on what went to a pentacostal school in junior high and they WERE patriotic.But they weren't xenophobes.The ONLY thing they said America had that was better than what many other countries had was freedom and democracy.They never said we were superior to anyone else.
In much of our media you have eighther anti-patriotism(the movies),no mention at ALL of patriotism(other entertainment),or luke warm pseudo patriotism like on Bil O'Reilly.REAL Pro-Life Conservatives see RIGHT THROUGH that schiester.

Many Americans DO dislike other nations though, but I should tell you why.

They see the Canadian government considering setting up a seperate court system for Muslims based in Sharia Law.

They see Mexicans illegaly coming into their nation and claiming a right stay while waving the Mexican flag.As well we are GREATLY ANGRY that our Government does nothing to send them home and prosecute those who hire them for cheap labor.

They see the the human atrocities in China such as a Chinese dermatology company ADMIT to using the skin of executed political prisoners in their plants.

They see French youth demanding that they given jobs for life.

The see the Turks in Turkey and Germany LOVING a film called Valley of the Wolves wich includes a Jewish doctor performing live dissections on innocent Muslims in Iraq.This film has been condemned by the German Government.

We see Italy's national average age is 50.

We even see lazy bus drivers in New York who earn $63,000 a year(more than a liscensed vocational nurse)striking and demanding that they may retire at 52.


Americans see alot of idiocy in the most outspoken of their Country and in other Countries that sadly leaves us biased against other nations.


I would like to say that America is not a perfect nation wich is RIDDLED with IDIOTS.

I acknolegde that many of our Federal politicians and Governors are just as bad as the ones in Nations I mentioned here.I only wanted to state why Americans are increasing in dislike of other Americans and other Nations.The phenomenon that this is is not being instegated by the state or the popular media but instead it is the American temper.

When I see Whites being politically apathetic,lazy, and more interested in their owns personal life than in their Nation and their GOD.

When I see Blacks claimiming a White conspiracy against them instead of looking at causes within their subculture as to their progress in America.

When I see Christians digracing Christianity.


When I see men who do NOTHING when a crime is being committed.


And many other things I see just makes my blood boil.



Man I really got energized.Nearly 3000 characters.


I mean nothing as insult. And I see MUCH more morality and sensibilty in other nations than my own.

Such as Poland.



What I have said is a rebuttal to Creator's comment on nationalism in America.

Fannatical patriotism brings fascism and blind following.Sadly there are many who cannot tell the difference between conservative patriotism and fascism.Sadly they cannot see their own blindness when it comes to philosophy and political thought.

When a Nation leaves behind patriotism in ignorrant desire of avoiding percieved fascism or because they are liberal revolutionaries they leave themselves open to guaranteed cultural decline, lazines, cowardess, intelectual ingnorance, and apathy to an extreme.

This is happening in America but at less a rate than the rest of the Norwestern Hemisphere.

In Europe there is much more rapid decline.I am not being against all of Europe but, I must mention how how my last paragraph pertains to them.

You can see the decline of Europe in those Muslim riots.

You can see the decline of Europe in how the most popular name for new born boys in Belgam is Muhamed.
This statment is not directed towards Muslims but towards Europe.


This post is directed to you Creator on your comments on America.I am not a flamer.And I know this is off topic but I had to respond to your statements.Plus,I love a good debate.

Edited by AmericanMan, 04 April 2006 - 08:49 PM.