1340 replies to this topic

[Airman]

Well, it's hard to know what a lie is, if you don't know. Anyways, some preachers of the Christian faith could have the power to heal people. I'm not so sure it's a lie...

[MSpencer]

I am.
They're nothing more than con artists.

And if they can heal so well, I don't think we really need hospitals anymore. I really can't even begin to link comparisons with some swindler hauling an old woman out of a wheelchair and the practice of medicine. That anyone believes in that ridiculous show selling is ridiculous, and quite disconcerting.

Edited by MSpencer, 05 October 2006 - 12:02 AM.

[cdmtx(YR)]

Yes, I assume this is where we equate modern science to a cleverly constructed lie and conspiracy.

NO!
That lie could be a mistake or coming up with the wrong/false conclusion.

Well, it's hard to know what a lie is, if you don't know. Anyways, some preachers of the Christian faith could have the power to heal people. I'm not so sure it's a lie...

Some people are blessed with that power by God. But then there are the morons that fake it.

Edited by cdmtx(YR), 05 October 2006 - 01:37 AM.

[MSpencer]

Ah yes. Blessed powers to completely contradict thousands of years of medical science. Magical healing. Elves too perhaps? Or lightsabers?
Now who sounds ridiculous?

Y'know, between the two of you, you make my argument so much easier! Thank you immensely! It's just obvious in a moderated view of what you two are saying that you're absolutely insane, perhaps suffering from mercury poisoning. I'm not complaining, but if you want to be taken seriously, come up with real arguments, otherwise, the two of you are making my case for me.
Miracles, healders, and gifts. It's like a Lord of the Rings convention.

Edited by MSpencer, 05 October 2006 - 03:12 AM.

[Airman]

Yes, I am insane, but the good insane. Anyways, it's not "magic", it's called faith to believe. I forgot what the dude is called, but I've seen a famous guy who video taped his services from the 60s, I think it was the 60s. He was healing lines of people. How do you explain that?

[MSpencer]

Hauling old ladies out of wheelchairs.
Medicine and faith are not linked. Medicine is simply the study of the treatment of the human body and its various ailments. People cannot be healed by any combination of faith. In fact, I recommend you go and tell someone at a hospital, prefferably a surgeon, what you have told me. They'll probably laugh at you, and then have you sent upstairs to the psych ward for an evaluation.

[Paladin58]

Just to tell you, Spence, Razgriz truely is insane. I have him on my MSN, and he speaks the strangest gibberish...
Well, now for me to throw my thoughts into the ring. Sometimes, stuff happens that cannot be explained. Like, for instance, the Bermuda triangle. I still haven't heard plausible theories for that. It is possible that a person was already on their way to recovery and they happened to walk into that televangelist crap and get 'healed'. Or, as you say, Spence, hauling old ladies out of wheelchairs. This is why I'm agnostic anymore. Because there's still unexplained shit happening in the world. So, I'm open to anything plausible. God? Probably not. Higher power? Who knows?

[Airman]

Just to tell you, Spence, Razgriz truely is insane. I have him on my MSN, and he speaks the strangest gibberish...

I barely talk to you...

Anyways, it wasn't just old ladies in chairs. I was adaults and children too, and of different deseases.

[duke_Qa]

also known as religious placebo imo.

how many people can't proclaim that they've been healed after some guy touched their head, and believe it for an hour or two?

[MSpencer]

And they still die of cancer.

[Tom]

If I tell a lie to my friend, and he believes it, and he tells another friend, and that person believes it. Then that lie spreads all around the world and millions of people believe that lie and accepted it as fact, and call anyone who doesn't believe that lie crazy or insane. Does that lie remain a lie or does it become the truth?

It will still remain a lie, no matter how many people believe that lie.

Thats true, all part of cause and effect. Everything affects everything, no matter how insignificant or small you believe it is, it all passes on in one way or another.

[Mathijs]

If I tell a lie to my friend, and he believes it, and he tells another friend, and that person believes it. Then that lie spreads all around the world and millions of people believe that lie and accepted it as fact, and call anyone who doesn't believe that lie crazy or insane. Does that lie remain a lie or does it become the truth?

It will still remain a lie, no matter how many people believe that lie.

And here we see how religion came into being.

[duke_Qa]

hmm, found some interesting links about the topic of religion and atheism and violence.

Stream of discussion about the last book

The End of Faith and the followup Letters to a Christian Nation

"Only 28% of Americans believe in evolution (and two-thirds of these believe evolution was "guided by God"). 53% are actually creationists."

"Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of the earth, more than half of our neighbors believe that the entire cosmos was created six thousand years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue."

"More than 50% of Americans have a "negative" or "highly negative" view of people who don't believe in God. 70% think it important for presidential candidates to be "strongly religious.

i really have to agree with the majority of the stuff i've read here, organized religion is not a good thing, and we should really do as much as possible to enlighten people on how much better things could have been without it.

Edited by duke_Qa, 06 October 2006 - 02:12 PM.

[MSpencer]

I don't know if I made it or not, but earlier this week I found out I was nominated for the senior class superlative most likely to be president. I can't see that happening with the 70% statistic.
I might have to create my own country. Godisfakeland sounds good to me.

Edited by MSpencer, 06 October 2006 - 08:29 PM.

[Airman]

Ok, we get your point, you don't believe in a god. I do believe in a god, but I don't worship. I know I'm doomed, but I don't want todo anything about it...

[Tom]

Your not doomed if you don't believe in God. Thats a christian misconception. If god does exist he will care not of what faith you follow he will care more about your actions and what you chose to do with your time here. If you chose to screw people and worship things like money, thats not spiritual. Spirituality is the ability to give up the physical for your own spiritual development. That is the argument. When i talk of spirituality I am so sure because i can feel it. It does not bother me if no one believes me, neither do i care if people take the piss or call it ridiculous or even call me insane.

And before spence says anything ridiculous, no spirituality is nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories on the other hand are entirely seperate because i'm too confused to really decide whats going on in this world. Something is not right and humanity as a whole needs to sort itself out. That is the only link that can really be made to spirituality from these theories.

[MSpencer]

All-inclusive spirituality, ridiculous conspiracy theories about those evil corporatists, and humanity stepping forward.
On another side we have the Christian healers "gifted by god", intelligent design, and mudflinging.
On even another side we have the literalists and the ones who dredge up ridiculous sources claiming the world was created six thousand years ago, with proof constructed by idiots and quacks who are viewed by the scientific community as absolute babbling morons.
It might just be from that already damned, evil atheist subversionist anti-christ bastard that I'm sure I'm referred to as, but it seems to me like you guys put way too much on the line here. It's not faith, it's not even reaching, it's as ridiculous as grasping at straws that are moving at the speed of light and aren't even part of the space time continuum. There is no evidence to support this ridiculous faith that all of you seem to have...

[Tom]

Thats why its called faith. Its a personal thing, like said, it doesn't matter. If you don't believe in it it does not matter to me. Difference is I will not judge anyone on my own beliefs because I myself don't know everything or even anything in the sense of infinity. Why does it concern you so much that people have these so called ridiculous ideas or "conspiracies."

When i talk of mankind i talk of us as one, as a whole. If god exists it looks at induviduals but it also looks at mankind as a whole. Everything on this planet, every problem is caused by our own stupidity. Imagine mankind as a single consciousness then by dividing ourselves through petty differences and greed, ego etc; its basically like looking at ourselves in a mirror then smacking ourselves over the head with a baseball bat laughing at the pain we cause "someone else" in the mirror. We are only causing suffering to ourselves as well due to our division caused by ignorance of humanity as a whole.

[cdmtx(YR)]

If I tell a lie to my friend, and he believes it, and he tells another friend, and that person believes it. Then that lie spreads all around the world and millions of people believe that lie and accepted it as fact, and call anyone who doesn't believe that lie crazy or insane. Does that lie remain a lie or does it become the truth?

It will still remain a lie, no matter how many people believe that lie.

And here we see how religion came into being.

And here we see how evolution came into being.

[MSpencer]

Except there's proof for evolution. Religion is a well crafted story book.

Y'know it's not my problem that you can't comprehend the subject with an open mind. It's also not my responsibility to try and make you understand, something which would probably be an effort wasted upon someone who can't grasp the simple biological concepts without bringing some third party into the equation. If you don't want to open your mind to legitimate scientific inquiry, that's fine, really, I could care less, but keep the storytelling out of our schools and within the confines of your own mind. The mind's like a gun, it only works when it's opened up, and it has tremendous power. You still need to get a basic grasp of the former.

Edited by MSpencer, 07 October 2006 - 02:18 AM.