1143 replies to this topic

[KingBradley]

I mean in elves faction, the Shrine of Iluvatar.
Well, they will if the code not change. I think we need a new object which have moving together function maybe just like when we select them but with some standard position while their attributes as individual heroes still functional. If we select the horde they will show some picture with no power at all or the shortcut to individual hero then the power of each hero will showed if we select the hero personally or the shortcut.

[Devon]

Oh, those were just unfinished also.

And that could work...but it'd still be rather troublesome, and I'm almost 100% sure rob won't do it.

[CIL]

And beregond wasn't captain until after the war of the ring. He was just a lowly soldier, not a hero...

Sorry Yoda, you're wrong about the second part. He was a Citadel Guard. And he was a hero. He killed 3 of Denethor's guards, probably the most elite of Gondor, to save Faramir. No Beregond, no Faramir.

[Devon]

He was a soldier of the guard, in some company or another, not a captain. I've read the books too....

After pippin is sworn in to the gondor army (or whatever) he asks beregond whether he is a captain and might vouch for pippin to place him in beregonds company. Beregond says no, he's just a lowly soldier, but even so soldiers of a gondor were respected above other men at the top of their crafts.

[myster]

i also thought beregond got promoted After the battle at minis tirith..

[CIL]

Right after it. And Yoda, was Caeser not a lowly soldier as well at one point? He was a good warrior and also... Denethor's guards WERE the best in Gondor, save MAYBE the Knights of Dol Amroth. Guards of the Citadel are actually a bit above the average soldier in rank and power. Beregond was no exception. He would have also had the power to become captain BEFORE he became captain. How else did he become captain? Did he magically acquire some mighty power after what he did? Look, heroes have their actual might magnefied (save the Maia like Gandalf). He could easily a good early-game hero. Anyways, he should be a hero because, as I said, he saved Faramir. Just put something like "Valiant Guard of the Citadel" as his description, not it it's captain (as he was not it's captain).

[Devon]

It was after the black gate, not minas tirith.

Some lowly gondor soldier probably saved aragorns life at some point during one of the battles, but he's not a hero...

[CIL]

But did he kill 3 of the Guard of Denethor and forfeit his life? And if what you said wasn't written anywhere, Yoda, then we may take it as it never happened. Also, Guards of the Citadel ARE better than normal soldiers. There were only a few companies of them. It's also represented in-game.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 19 July 2008 - 06:14 PM.

[mike_]

Not that great of an achievement considering he was in full battle dress and all they had were a few bundles of firewood and some flasks of oil

[CIL]

No, a porter drew a sword on him (not counting him, that's 3). The others probably heard some commotion. And it was certain that they had weapons and armor as well.

[tomy]

Denethor's guard must have been in full armour when Beregond faced them. They were in combat gear all the time, they had the job to protect the Steward! And even if Denethor didn't need any protecting at that moment, they would still wear it, because it's their uniform. And if that arguments weren't enough: there was an entire army of Mordor breaking through the gate!

[mike_]

None of that is explicitly stated..as a matter of fact, Beregond gets in some deep shat because the porter did not pull a sword on him, and so he killed him unlawfully and in cold blood.

Also..I doubt they were in full gear. If Denethor chose to not send them to fight, why would he order them to wear their full arms and armour?

One more thing...this is all rather irrelevant. Beregond was not a captain or elite soldier during this time frame; he became "Captain of the White Company", the personal guard of Faramir, some length of time after the War of the Ring.

[CIL]

The porter drew sword first. Anways, Denethor probably wanted his ritualistic suicide to go undisturbed, so his guards were certainly fully equiped. Also, Mike... Are the Guards of the Citadel not elite soldiers? Last I checked, they were. The Guards of the Fountain were a bit better, but that's beyond the point. The point is that Beregond has the potential to be counted as a hero because of his actions. Mike, you need skill to get a promotion, it doesn't come after it. Caeser started as a lowly soldier and became the Roman Emperor. Let me sum things up for you all.

Beregond should be featured as a hero as he saved Faramir from 3 of Denethor's guards, the most elite in Gondor. The guards were most likely fully armed and armored. He forfieted his life to save Faramir without much thought. And killing some of your own race under those circumstances would have been immensely emotionally crushing. And one must posess skill before acquiring a promotion. While his power was nowhere near the calibur of Aragorn, Elrond, Imrahil, Eomer, or anyone in their league, he would make for a good early game hero, something Gondor lacks, save Faramir and Boromir who need to be made into midgame heroes. There are plenty of good skins out there and I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to get one for the mod or to simply make one (just clone a Guard of the Citadel and give him some ok leadership powers, etc.), as he did wear a helm.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 19 July 2008 - 11:36 PM.

[Dalf32]

why does gondor need another hero!? iirc they have done fine with what they have for a looooooong time.

[CIL]

Accuracy to Tolkien lore, my friend. Accuracy to Tolkien lore.

[Scryer]

Accuracy to Tolkien lore, my friend. Accuracy to Tolkien lore.

Sorry to break it to you, but gameplay has to work with the lore in order to make it a fun mod. Otherwise, you'd just have characters/monsters with no real balance. Or there would be too many and they'd all have similar stats (cookie-cutting). Plus people could gain undefeatable advantages over their opponents. Or so I believe.

Adding Beregond to Gondor (which was indirectly suggested?) is not a great idea. Gondor already has enough heroes (Gandalf, Boromir, Faramir, Pippin, Damrod (is he available outside of the campaign?), and Prince Imrahil -yeah, I'm just gonna slide him in there.. ), another soldier-hero is purposeless. Boromir already fills the Gondor-Soldier/Captain hero. So what would Beregond do differently?

You could argue and say that Damrod is another copy of Faramir but Faramir is a lot more versatile whereas Damrod (in game) is a pure-ranger hero. Gondor's heroes are good as they are. They all have their own roles and they work together perfectly (assuming that Pimppin ould get some decent powers). <There is no need to screw that up with some extra soldier-hero who became captain after WOTR. Which is another reason not to add him. He wasn't too important (<I use that term loosely) until after the timeframe that this mod takes place in.

[CIL]

Beregond would be a few steps above Pippin and would be meant to cost something like 750. Faramir's anims, toggle, small leadership, nothing else. Simple early game toggle hero that will be a decent leader but weaker than almost all other heroes.

[mike_]

I don't think he's needed, but that's just my opinion.

Hehe..Greedo shot first

[Dalf32]

im in agreement with mike, not needed.

lol, either i missed something or that was spectacularly random mike

[mike_]

Well, I think it's rather fitting considering what he said beforehand "the porter drew first"