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#701 Hasfusel

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 03:35 PM

Neither Damrod or Carthraen have leadership - this would be nice otherwise.

I agree with Wrath of Angmar being too common - Elrond, Galadriel and the Elven CAH's already have a Whirlwind power, and so does Círdan. Perhaps something akin to Saruman's Lightning Blast (which in any case, if kept, should be given more damage, faster recharge time and a larger radius - it's supposed to have the equivalent usefulness to Word of Power)? I was primarily thinking along the lines of something like Battle Rage or Bloodlust, something to give him a massive temporary boost in power due to his speech, which is warlike and agressive, but he already has that Dark Glory power, so...

I trust RJ's judgement on the Wizards fully. Their actual names were Alatar and Pallando; Morihentar (East-Helper) and Rómestamo (Darkness Slayer) were both titles they had, although Tolkein never specified which Wizard had which title. So it would make sense if these were included in the units.

I'm updating my viewpoint on Glorfindel, as well. I've just finished re-reading the whole Book One of TFotR, and it seems that he deserves much more glory than EA gave him.
He's supposed to be one of the mightiest Elf-Lords around. He slew a Balrog (although he died in the process), and actually hunted some of the Ringwraithes. The book said he was "terrible in his wrath", appearing surrounded by a brilliant light at the Fords of Bruinen. He is one of the few who have actually been killed and gone to the Undying Lands, then returned to Middle-Earth, meaning that he has power that other great Elves such as Elrond and Celeborn do not. According to Gandalf, people like him are "in both worlds at once, and are mighty against both the Seen and the Unseen".
If not for Merry and Pippin, he would most likely have gone with the Fellowship as one of the Nine Walkers.

Glorfindel
Cost raised to 2750 (4000 if I had it my way, but that would completely change his role in the game)
Health and armour increased
Trim changed to silver, although his hair remains golden.
Has the same "bubble shield" passive power as Gandalf when fighting Nazgul, Wights, Balrogs and other dark creatures
Mount/Dismount toggle button replaced with something better looking, like with the S.E.E mod.
Increased mounted speed, mounted armour and crush.
New Power:

Lvl. 7: Light of the Havens (attack similar to but stronger than Istari Light)

Arwen
Increased attack and rate of attack
Small splash damage
New Powers:

Lvl. 4: Beacon of Hope (I put this for Eowyn, too; passive, gives nearby units resistance to fear)
Lvl. 7: Hero's Aid (same as the power for Gamling and Hama)

I would also like to suggest having two different Aragorns, in the style of the Nazgul; When he dies (twice, though), you can revive him as the next model (although at the same level he was when he died), and when he dies (twice), revive him as the last model. This means that Heroes of Gondor will only give him Andúril, as a new armour skin for each one would be hard.
This idea means that Aragorn can be used in all his different skins and gives him the full depth of character from the books and film.

Aragorn No.1 (Strider)
Ranger hero. This is Aragorn as he was before the Fellowship was founded.
Strong Health and Attack, but weak armour. The only Aragorn with a ranged attack.

Lvl. 1: Toggle Weapon
Lvl. 1: Athelas
Lvl. 2: Dunedain Shot (ranged attack; does severe damage to an enemy hero or monster)
Lvl. 4: Blademaster
Lvl. 7: Rain of Arrows

Aragorn No.2
The EA Aragorn, without any changes.

Aragorn No.3 (King Elessar)
Aragorn as he was at the Black Gate in the film.

Lvl. 1: Toggle Mount
Lvl. 1: Leadership
Lvl. 4: Flame of the West (Elendil + Blademaster - two powers in one; he gains a boost, and nearby enemies suffer penalties to armour and damage)
Lvl. 7: King of Gondor (grants excellent experience to units and temporary boosts to attack or armour)
Lvl. 10: Light of the Evenstar (the same as Glorfindel's Starlight power)

Edited by Hasfusel, 03 October 2008 - 03:35 PM.


#702 Puppeteer

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:05 PM

But if you really wanted the King Elessar version, then it would be a shame to have to wait around and sacrifice him. I prefer the system of levelling up changes them, instead.

#703 Hasfusel

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:20 PM

Hmm... I don't know. It would be nice to include each individual model, but acheiving this would be hard... Perhaps just make it so Aragorn only dies once in each form before changing? As Strider, he's an early-game hero. As EA Aragorn, he's an okay mid-game hero that won't be missed much. As King Elessar, he's the one you've all been waiting for.
I had a similar plan to Saruman becoming Sharkey (see earlier), although Saruman is such a good hero that you would have to let him die three times before he changes.

#704 Devon

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 07:24 PM

If we do implement different aragorns, there would be only two. Strider, then aragorn as a king after heroes of gondor is purchased.

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#705 Dalf32

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:12 PM

i suppose he could be strider until you purchase heros of gondor, at which point he would get his ea skin and then at level 9 or 10 he would get his king skin. i dont like the dying for skin changes, it should be more based upon levels for this imo.

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#706 Hasfusel

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:30 PM

Yeah, but these powers change, too. He can toggle weapon with Strider, and do loads of other stuff. The EA Aragorn is boring, too.

What about Saruman/Sharkey? It's supposed to kinda serve you right for letting him die so many times, while still being very effective.

Edited by Hasfusel, 04 October 2008 - 06:31 PM.


#707 Puppeteer

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:43 PM

By that logic of "serving you right" what's to stop Rob then making them have one life only? You let him die = he stays that way.
I myself don't like the idea at all.

Edited by Puppeteer, 04 October 2008 - 06:44 PM.


#708 Hasfusel

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:50 PM

I considered this. It does make sense, but game-wise, it sucks.
With Saruman/Sharkey, I think it works. After letting him die three times, he unexpectedly stops being an amazing Wizard hero and changes while retaining his amazing-ness.

#709 Dalf32

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 07:40 PM

that doesnt really make sense gameplay-wise because if a person has saruman dying 3 times then he/she obviously isnt doing all that well or he/she isnt very good and then when their uber-expensive hero comes back he is useless. thats not all that fair. and what if it is a very very long match? it is inevitable that the hero will die, so after a while one of your most valuable units is now crap? no, i dont like it very much at all.

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#710 rjorrin28

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:29 PM

I think the idea, while creative, is not too smart. It makes no sense to have it in the mod.

Edited by rjorrin28, 04 October 2008 - 08:46 PM.

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#711 Scryer

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 02:03 AM

I think the idea, while creative, is not too smart. It makes no sense to have it in the mod.


Hmm I definitely wouldn't say the ideas aren't smart, just some of them are just not right for the mod...
Anyways the following might be a longer post.

Elrond, Galadriel and the Elven CAH's already have a Whirlwind power, and so does Círdan. Perhaps something akin to Saruman's Lightning Blast (which in any case, if kept, should be given more damage, faster recharge time and a larger radius - it's supposed to have the equivalent usefulness to Word of Power)? I was primarily thinking along the lines of something like Battle Rage or Bloodlust, something to give him a massive temporary boost in power due to his speech, which is warlike and agressive, but he already has that Dark Glory power, so...


I agree with the bolded part. Except I think Cirdan is getting his water-spout power fixed - but don't take my word for it.

For Saruman, if you search through the Isengard thread, you'll see that his level 10 power was strongly discussed :unsure: . If you want to bring that up again, be my guest but I'm pretty sure that some people might be tired of discussing it. I think we toyed around with the idea of having the Isengard fortress get an "Orthanc Tower" upgrade where Saruman delivered more powers based on the power of his voice and stuff. Just check out the Isengard thread and you'll find some interesting things that was talked about there :mellow: !


I trust RJ's judgement on the Wizards fully. Their actual names were Alatar and Pallando; Morihentar (East-Helper) and Rómestamo (Darkness Slayer) were both titles they had, although Tolkein never specified which Wizard had which title. So it would make sense if these were included in the units.


This was a stylistic choice made by RJ, there's no way around it. You spoke earlier in this thread about giving them leadership powers, and I disagree with that because that would take away from the Haradrim Leaders' and the Rhun King's purposes (<grammar!).

Glorfindel
Cost raised to 2750 (4000 if I had it my way, but that would completely change his role in the game)
Health and armour increased
Trim changed to silver, although his hair remains golden.
Has the same "bubble shield" passive power as Gandalf when fighting Nazgul, Wights, Balrogs and other dark creatures
Mount/Dismount toggle button replaced with something better looking, like with the S.E.E mod.
Increased mounted speed, mounted armour and crush.
New Power:

Lvl. 7: Light of the Havens (attack similar to but stronger than Istari Light)


I see where you're getting at for this one. This was discussed in the Elves thread (not the Revamp thread). I don't believe that we honestly agreed to anything. I disagree with the lvl. 7 power because it is a cookie-cut from the Isatari Light power (except for the stats). I would like to see him get a power that combines the power of elven magic and his superior swordsman skills. But that's just me. If you want to continue discussing this, then let's bring this to one of the Elves threads because this thread (in my opinion) is for general suggestions like the camera system.


Arwen
Increased attack and rate of attack
Small splash damage
New Powers:

Lvl. 4: Beacon of Hope (I put this for Eowyn, too; passive, gives nearby units resistance to fear)
Lvl. 7: Hero's Aid (same as the power for Gamling and Hama)


Interesting idea of the "Beacon of Hope" thing... But I think that it only needs to be used for either Eowyn or Arwen. I suggested a while back that Arwen could have more powers focused on healing.... I disagree with Hero's Aid just because Gamling has it and I honestly hate seeing powers "copied + pasted" onto other heroes like this one.

But this is just my two cents.

Edited by Scryer, 05 October 2008 - 02:03 AM.

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#712 Hasfusel

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 08:50 AM

I think I agree.
Perhaps Glorfindel could have a Slayer power that makes him effective against enemy heroes and monsters?
Iunno.

I would like Arwen to improve powerwise, though. Only two powers (one Athelas, one that you can't use till lvl. 10) is pretty lame. This is why I suggested the Eagle thing earlier.
I would still like Sharkey implemented in the mod somehow, though. It seems very Tolkein-ish, and would be great fun to use. Heck, his powers make him even more effective than ordinary Saruman in some ways!
He has two Dominate powers, one with short range and permanent effect and one with the other. Maybe one could be replaced with MoS's Dissent , but it's true that copy-pasting powers gets tiring.
His special Last Remembrance ability is very Tolkein ("here's one last remembrance for you, Mr. Baggins!" *stab*), but maybe too similar to Wormtoungue...
Perhaps he could change by purchasing a power similar to Heroes of Gondor, called Saruman's Gambit? Or something like this.... I'm not sure. Having Sharkey would be great, though.
In any case, Isengard needs a new Power Tree. Having Summon Dragon is quite ridiculous - it appears that EA just randomly picked a Lvl.25 power. It has nothing to do with Isengard whatsoever. Maybe instead of Saruman's Gambit you could have Saruman of Many Colours, giving him a new skin, more health and armour, and a permanent blast attack like Sauron and Galadriel. These are just ideas...

#713 Ed Of The 3rd Kind

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 02:56 PM

Perhaps, if Saruman is going to go through a costume change at some level to Saruman Of Many Colours then it could be furthered that upon revive at that level (or above) he would come out in the Sharkey costume, I think it would work code wise.

Edited by Ed Of The 3rd Kind, 05 October 2008 - 02:57 PM.

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#714 Argeleb

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 06:28 PM

I'd say there could be a upgarde called "crown the Elessar" or something like that in the Gondor castle. That would upgarde Strider-Aragorn to Elessar-Aragorn

I would totally agree with making Glorfindel more powerful

Sharku idea sounds interesting.

I know it is hard but pleeeeeaaaaase make up more unique powers! All heroes seem to have same boring leadership-summonunits-blade master-specialshooting powers

Edited by Argeleb, 06 October 2008 - 06:32 PM.

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#715 Puppeteer

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 04:42 PM

Remember the mod isn't oriented around über-powerful heroes who can decimate heroes on their own, so unique powers that aren't OP are hard to come up with...

#716 Argeleb

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 06:03 PM

Yah, I know, I have tried myself :p
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#717 Hasfusel

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:39 PM

The Flaming Arrows upgrades for Good fortresses in RJ maps are kinda pointless, because they only affect the fortress itself at a price of 1500.
Perhaps the price could be increased, but the effect applied to all towers and catapults joined to the fortress walls?
Same with Evil camps on RJ maps; the price increased, but the effect applied to all those mini towers.

#718 Argeleb

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 06:01 PM

Thing that must be taken away: Catapult/Trebuchet/Ballista spam. enemy attacks with 10 ballistas and u can do nothing
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#719 Fyro11

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 06:57 PM

Thing that must be taken away: Catapult/Trebuchet/Ballista spam. enemy attacks with 10 ballistas and u can do nothing

Not really, just turn the difficulty down a notch, no? Just means one needs to brush up on their skills.
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#720 Devon

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:28 PM

Besides, cavalry with own any type of siege in seconds.

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