428 replies to this topic

[zachdaddy_3000]

Actually, you can kill a ring hero. It's difficult as hell, and takes a few hero respawns, but you can do it. And what happens in the game, like what happens in the movies, there is a massive shockwave killing anything on the screen at the time (about that range). And then all that's left is the ring, waiting to be picked up by anybody. It is quite a spectacle to see. And it seems like it'd be a coding nightmare to use your idea, Arthadan. So, maybe if Sul or his future protegé wants to tackle it, be my guest.

[ttandchotmail]

G'day zachdaddy and arthadan

Good to hear others have already had ideas like mine. I know ring heroes can be fun and all I just think a ring hero for the good faction just goes against the purpose of the lord of the rings story. It's true that ilsidor ( probably didn't spell that right ) did have the ring but he couldn't use it and the ring eventually betrayed him and he was killed because of that betrayal a long long long time before the lord of the rings main storyline even began. So I find hard to believe that having the ring would bring back to life a king that the ring actually betrayed and had killed himself. I just feel that way about any suggestions for a good ring hero. The one rings only goal was to return to the hands of it's master. Any who used it would become twisted and evil. Gollum did and so did bilbo and frodo near the end of their times with the ring.

Edited by ttandchotmail, 17 April 2008 - 09:03 AM.

[Troll Ranger]

I'm with ttandchotmail and Zachdaddy, with the timer/bonus for the good guys and the ring heroes for the baddies.

[Thorongil45]

both options sound good. i lean toward the timer thing though. maybe both could be available and the player in question could choose their fate?

[elbenmensch]

i agree

wouldnt it be cool if you have the ring and the timer starts so you just have to defend?

[Nazgûl]

G'day to all

I have put a little thought ( not much really ) into ring heroes and all that really sat well with me was a timer idea. To stay true to the story and movie having ring heroes for the good factions just seems wrong somehow. Sure it's fun and all but it was all decided by the people that met at rivendell that the ring should be destroyed. The whole war was an effort to stop sauron by destroying the ring.

So my thought was for the good factions to have a timer that counts down when the ring is safe in their fortress to imply that the ring is being sent to be destroyed. If the timer gets to zero then the good faction in control of the ring wins automatically. Now I know that dosn't sound like much fun but given enough of a countdown it might prove to be a better option to using the good ring heroes. And of course if a bad faction gain the ring they can purchase sauron.

Could be yet another crazy idea but it's my two cents worth

Depending on how the coding problem will be solved, with Sûl being absent (or gone)... that suggestion is very fitting for my thoughts ^. I've decided long ago that there won't be any Ring Heroes other that Sauron (and maybe Saruman) for evil factions. But no other living thing could ever wield the Ring for their own purposes. So the timer might be a perfect way to "solve" that in a movie-way fashion Maybe we could even have Frodo having to run past enemies and exit the map before the timer starts?

[zachdaddy_3000]

If you decide to do that Naz, you'd have to make frodo available for all factions, or not available and just have him exit with the ring once a unit returns to the fortress. OOH! About having him run toward the edge of the map, remember in BFME I those "spotlights" you had to come to in order to further the level (such as after the wall collapses in Balin's Tomb and the spotlight appears in the hole in the wall and you had to step into the spotlight in order to open the next part of the level). Would there be a way to put a "spotlight" on the edge of the map? And then make frodo touch the spotlight and then the computer automatically makes him walk off the map and then a timer starts? Sounds like a coding nightmare, granted, but the spotlight is already in the coding, atleast for BFME I, so if there was a way to take the coding out, and, well, you know. Or, I guess instead of that "spotlight", what about those "position beacons" that no one really uses?

[ttandchotmail]

G'day arthadan

Not to sound like your idea is bad mate, I like it but I had another thought on the timer idea and just thought I better write it down here before I forget it

For all the bfme1 players here I'm sure we all remember the fantastic campaign. I loved it . But the part I'm thinking of is inbetween battles when the player is looking at the world map from above. I seem to recall being able to place my cursor over a certain map and without clicking on it a little part of the movie which happened in that map would appear in the orbs of orthanc ( I don't think that's the right name, sorry ). The orb that pippin picked up from the ground when sauromon took the dive off the top of his tower near the start of the return of the king.

My thought was in regards to the timer and clicking on the fortress that has it. Usually when you click on a fortress you see the portrait of the fortress next to the map. But what if instead of seeing the portrait when the ring goes in we automatically see a bright ring around the portrait area start to appear. much like the light blue ring that grows around the heroes level number to show how close he/she is to going up another level.

And for example say every 30 seconds if we click on the fortress that holds the ring instead of the portrait we see those short clips of the movie in order to show the fellowship travelling closer to mordor the last clip probably being golums hand going into the lava.... maybe. Possibly the opponents are able to see this as well to give them an idea of how much time they have left. But why ruin the surprise

[zachdaddy_3000]

And both of our suggestions sound like coding nightmares, TT. That's just great.

[ttandchotmail]

G'day zachdaddy

hahahaha I was thinking the exact same thing as I was typing that idea yesterday. . It does sound like a coding nightmare and I consider ideas like this one to be very minor not at all important in any way but I thought it would be a nice touch. Their are probably hundreds more important things to do than this idea anyway

[Nazgûl]

Great ideas... but way beyond my coding skills...

[ttandchotmail]

G'day nazgul

Would sniggles have the time to help with coding? Just in general though, not for anything inparticular.

[Nazgûl]

You'll find all kinds of useful tutorials on T3A front page HERE

[spiderspag]

I'd rather see the Sauron/Galadriel system unchanged, despite the fact that several other parties including Saruman coveted the ring.

Having said that, there are some changes I would like to see made to the Ringheroes and the Ring system. Also, I am not entirely sure why you placed Galadriel into the game as a normal unit, but this changes matters greatly. It would look quite silly to have 2 Galadriel's fighting for your side in the same battle. Furthermore, it seems the poll demands that Evil retain Sauron, but that the Good side needs a shakeup when it comes to Ringheroes. Thus, my suggestions are as follows-

Make Galadriel quite subdued without the Ring. I suggest that she carry an Elven knife and have the following powers:
Level 1: Farsight
Level 3: Minds Eye (passive)- Reduces enemy damage
Level 4: Elven Gifts (passive)- Increases all hero damage by 50%
Level 7: Whirlwind
Level 10: Storm queen- Power that when activated, she assumes the dark appearance and swaps her knife for her mini-wizard-blast melee attack. All enemies cower in fear.

Firstly, when the Ring is picked up, the entire map shouldn't be made aware of it. I'm sure Sauron would have loved it if he was immeadiatley notified of its location, but that wasn't how it worked.

Secondly, if picked up by a hero it should immeadiatley render them invisible, even when attacking, except if made contact with or spied by a stealth-detector. Nazgul should be able to see them however, and if the Eye of Sauron is active at the moment the location of the Ring should be alerted immeadiatley. Also, the powers of whoever is holding the Ring at the time should recharge faster. You then have the option of allowing the Hero to keep the One Ring, or to return it to the Fortress. (This change would make the Ring useful even without a Fortress)

If the Ring is returned to the Fortress, then the halo appears above it, and all Palantiar powers should recharge faster and all resources be generated faster.

If you are playing as Mordor, Men of the East (when you implement them) or Goblins, you may then build Sauron.

Now here are some suggestions for Sauron.

-The Black Hand of Sauron power as I described in the Mordor suggestions thread, which is canon to the movie-lore and would deal extreme flame-based damage to single hero units. As it stands, heroes such as Gimli can face off with Sauron alone, which I find unnacceptable.
-The Necromancer power that again I detailed in the Mordor thread, which would result in any enemy or ally unit dying within his vicinity ressurected as a Barrow-wight to fight for your cause.
-The removal of his Rain of Fire power as Mordor currently has too many of these type powers (3.)
-Change his Terror power to the Dark Lord passive ability, which would make enemies cower in fear and make allies immune to fear.
-Sauron should be immune to flame-based damage if he isn't already.

If, however, you are Isengard, Dwarves, MOTW or Elves, you may choose to UPGRADE a certain hero from the Fortress with the Ring abilities. This upgrade is available from the Fortress, and would transfer the Ring to that hero. There is only one hero per side capable of carrying the Ring, and they are detailed (along with the changes the upgrade would make to them) below. Note that if this hero is unavailable in the concerned battle, the upgrade cannot be bought but the other benefits of possessing the Ring still are.

ISENGARD: Saruman
-His powers regenerate faster
-Every one of his melee attacks become a Wizard Blast
-His Wizard Blast power is replaced by Falling Star, which calls a silver meteor from the heavens that causes AOE damage and starts a large fire.
-His conversions of enemy troops are permanant

DWARVES: King Dain
-His powers regenerate faster
-His health and armour are greatly increased
-His leadership abilities should be greatly increased
-Every one of his melee attacks becomes like Gloin's special attack.

MOTW: Gandalf
-His powers regenerate faster
-Every one of his attacks becomes a Wizard Blast
-His Wizard Blast is replaced by the Fireflight of Drogoth, which looks very much like his dragon firework from Bilbo's party. Call it "Fire-wielder" or something
-He shines with a silver light that makes allies immune to fear and stun and causes enemies to cower in fear

ELVES: Galadriel

-Her powers recharge faster
-Her Whirlwind power is replaced by Tornado as per BFME2 Collectors edition
-Her Farsight ability becomes replaced by a passive Truesight
-The Storm Queen ability becomes passive


Tell me what you think!

cheers,
spiderspag

Edited by spiderspag, 26 May 2008 - 04:06 PM.

[Zarnik]

I have a suggestion about the ring hero. Hmmm, galadriel won't use it. We saw in the movies that she could resist the power of using it. Gandalf isn't evil, he would never use it. And there is really no one else on the good side who could use it. They would only get Invisible cuz they haven't got the power like galadriel and gandalf. And they are not half gods or what you would call Gandalf and Galadriel.

So a good ring hero...I don't think it would be true to the movies. The timer thing you spoke of a few posts back sounds like a basic and cool idea, but it's a too powerful ability for the good side. It's almost like cheating. The bad side have to be able to get the ring back and find frodo somehow. So what about this, when the good side takes the ring and returns it to the fortress. The timer will start, it should be set to maybe 30 minutes or less/more.

Then just like you had to find gollum, frodo and sam will appear somewhere on the map, tiny little hobbits that only Gollum can see and find. All other units armies won't be able to see them. So when the good side gets the ring gollum will turn to the bad side and then the bad player/computer will send gollum out to look for Frodo and Sam. When Gollum find them, if he does. He should fight them, and win. Cuz Frodo and Sam are weak to be honest.

Then he returns back to his neutral side and the bad/good side have to go look for him again. But this idea is kinda complicated maybe, making the computer send out gollum to find the ring will probably be very hard. And also if you are the elves and already have bought Frodo or sam as heroes it would be weird to have them at two places at the same time. Maybe just remove them from the elves or make them dissapear and reappear when they have lost the ring or something. I don't know.

Also of course the enemy should not be able to see the timer, or know if the good side have the ring. A constant fear for the player who choose the bad side. But don't forget that the bad side got sauron who also is a constant fear for the good side. It's true to the movies and I like it. What do you think. Also you have to put some nice voices in when Gollum looses his ring to the good side.

Sum up:
1. Good side takes ring from gollum.
2. Returns it to the fortress.
3. Timer starts.
4. Gollum turns to the evil player.
5. He uses Gollum to find Frodo and Sam (or only Frodo).
6. If he finds them, he get the ring automatically.
7. Gollum wants it for himself, and turns to neutral side again.
8. And you have to find him again.

It's a way for the player to be able to prevent the timer from reaching 0 and loose automatically. Also it must be hell for the bad side, cuz they have to look for the ring and defend their base from the forces of good. It is just like in the movies, they march to the black gate to give frodo a chance to destroy the ring. Also maybe the eye could see frodo and sam, but they have to send out gollum to take it from them. So yeah what do you think.

The problems:
1. Frodo and sam are recruitable from the elven faction. If they already bought frodo and sam, then there are two frodos and two sams. ???
2. What if there is a battle between the dwarves and the elves. What then O.o
3. It's probably a coding nightmare.

Phew, now I stop writing lol. Of course you can reject the idea or polish it further.^^

Edited by Zarnik, 24 July 2008 - 12:02 AM.