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New Ring Heroes? Debate - Movies v/s Books


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Poll: Should S.E.E. have new Ring Heroes for each faction? (113 member(s) have cast votes)

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#321 LordEcthelion

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 01:23 AM

Since Saruman wanted the ring for himself, i think he should be the ring hero for Isengard, but maybe it wouldn't add a new Saruman to the playing field, but rather have him come to the fortress and be replaced by a new, ring-hero type saruman, or maybe it could be an upgrade (maybe add a few new powers, making him stronger, more armor, &c.)

GALADRIEL AS A RINGHERO SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE ABOLISHED!!!!! In the books she refused to take the ring. Maybe for Gondor there could be a ring-upgraded Boromrir? :good: He wanted to take the ring from Frodo.

Maybe, since the good faction did not want to use the ring, there should be and anti-ring hero. A hero that could only be spwaned after the opponent spawned a ringhero. Or maybe for all factions. They could only attack the enemy's ringhero, and then both would die and Gollum would spawn somewhere on the map with the ring. Sorta like the ring-hunter gollum, but for attacking the ringhero (uunless gollum can already do this? if he can please disregard my foolishness.)
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#322 Cylleruion

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 12:51 PM

Gandalf is suitable as a Ring Hero for MotW. He did say once in the movies that if he were to take the Ring, he'd be more terrible that you could possibly imagine.

Well my idea for him is...
Normal Attack - Wizard Blasts
Instill Fear (SFX - use the line in the Extended Version of the movies, in which he recites the inscription on the Ring using Mordor language at the Council of Elrond, VFX - Current Instill fear?)
Bubble Shield (Gandalf gains invincibility for 30 sec or something)
Istari Light
Lightning Storm (instead of just Lightning sword)
Anyone else can think of other stuff?

Saruman for Isengard, likewise
Normal attack - Wizard Blast
Instill Fear
Inferno (instead of fireball)
Lightning Storm, again?

Edited by Cylleruion, 04 December 2007 - 12:54 PM.


#323 Thorongil45

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 07:49 AM

Since Saruman wanted the ring for himself, i think he should be the ring hero for Isengard, but maybe it wouldn't add a new Saruman to the playing field, but rather have him come to the fortress and be replaced by a new, ring-hero type saruman, or maybe it could be an upgrade (maybe add a few new powers, making him stronger, more armor, &c.)

GALADRIEL AS A RINGHERO SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE ABOLISHED!!!!! In the books she refused to take the ring. Maybe for Gondor there could be a ring-upgraded Boromrir? :lol: He wanted to take the ring from Frodo.

Maybe, since the good faction did not want to use the ring, there should be and anti-ring hero. A hero that could only be spwaned after the opponent spawned a ringhero. Or maybe for all factions. They could only attack the enemy's ringhero, and then both would die and Gollum would spawn somewhere on the map with the ring. Sorta like the ring-hunter gollum, but for attacking the ringhero (uunless gollum can already do this? if he can please disregard my foolishness.)

i agree with lordecthelion on saruman and galadriel. the anti-ring hero sounds great!
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#324 King_of_Blades

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 07:01 AM

S.E.E. is supposed to be devoted (well, based on) the movies, correct? Then perhaps more work should be put into the One Ring. All it does right now is enable the recruitment of Sauron and "Empress" Galadriel. In all three of the movies, the One Ring was the main plot to the entire story. If there was no ring, there would be no Battle of Pelennor Fields. If there was no ring, there would be no Battle of Helms Deep. :p

Perhaps the team (yes, team; not player-- team) should benefit from the One Ring by having obviously the ability to recruit Sauron/Galadriel, a decent attack bonus to all units, add uncancellable (is that a word?) fear to all enemies, and add all upgrades to the citadel that receives the One Ring.

So let's say, MotW finds the ring, and there was another MotW player on the same team. They bring it back to their citadel; citadel receives all (non build plot) upgrades. Army of Gondor marches out to Mordor fortress. Foot soldiers cripple Mordor defences. Enemy player defeated.

Edited by King_of_Blades, 15 December 2007 - 07:02 AM.

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#325 Wundai

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 01:49 PM

To quote Frodo:

We're going in circles!
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#326 njm1983

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 08:25 AM

The most realistic way of implementing the ring would be for any hero to wield it and become super powerful, but the rings evil would errode that wielders life until he/she died and dropped the ring. the exception to that would be sauron. it is stated in the film that the ring would destroy each member of the fellowship 1 by 1. meaning they would eventually give in and try to possess it, then in that possession of it, would slowly errode and wittle away that person until they were a shadow of their former selves.

#327 Jonasking

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 09:43 PM

MoTW-Isildur
Dwarwes:Don't know . Its no dwarf that possible should be stronger with the ring but like a example : Fundin,Balin,Gimli(stronger),Dain(stronger),Gloin(stronger),Thorin etc etc
Elves:Galadriel
Mordor : Sauron of course(Melkor must be in his powers!or like a very expnsive hero !)
Goblin"Moria":Balrog has no allie only it self so Balrog is out . Goblin King I vote for.
Isengard: Saruman of course.
Evil Men:??.Maybe the Prince of Harad but stronger then the standard one.

#328 Guest_Grubbo_*

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 08:28 PM

MoTW-Isildur
Dwarwes:Don't know . Its no dwarf that possible should be stronger with the ring but like a example : Fundin,Balin,Gimli(stronger),Dain(stronger),Gloin(stronger),Thorin etc etc
Elves:Galadriel
Mordor : Sauron of course(Melkor must be in his powers!or like a very expnsive hero !)
Goblin"Moria":Balrog has no allie only it self so Balrog is out . Goblin King I vote for.
Isengard: Saruman of course.
Evil Men:??.Maybe the Prince of Harad but stronger then the standard one.


Isildur is long dead.
Melkor has been banished to the void, outside of this universe let alone the World of Ea.
Goblin king is too weak of mind to fully harness and control the ring. He would end up like Gollum, and have access to just invisibility and seeing the spirit world.
As for Evil men...sigh....don't like the idea of an evil men faction to begin with....as far as I'm concerned the entire kingdom of Harad is a fiefdom of Mordor, even their princes and kings are just thralls of the dark lord. They'd have less ability to control the ring than the Goblin King as far as I'm concerned.

I think because of the ring's ability to possess its bearer, any unit that is not a hero should over time become possessed by its evil: if a normal battalion were to capture the ring, it has a limited time to bring the ring back to the fortress before becoming a "rogue unit", that is, a unit not under control of anyone. In this state, the unit will fight off any other trying to take the ring, and will try its best to either escape or fight to retain possession. It could also be a little bit stronger as well.
If a hero were to capture the ring, they would have a slightly longer time to take the ring back to the fortress, but they are under the same contraints. If they manage to fall under the rings spell (ie. not take the ring back in time) they also become a rogue unit, with all of their abilities active and made at least twice as powerful.

However, assuming the ring is successfully brought to the fortress:
MotW- presumably, Denethor would have greedily taken the ring for his own. Under his madness, military expansionism increases, with bonuses given to troop production (increased build speed for units and buildings). It is assumed that the time it takes to "build" this ability is the time it took for Denethor to summon as much mental vigor to bring the ring under his control. We never see a Denethor unit. He is not a fighter. Instead he is a mad despot, who would rather rule from his vaulted throne than put himself in danger.
Dwarves- Dain takes the ring, and under his empowered leadership, mining production increases (huge econ bonus). Dain himself has his health increased, all of his abilities activated regardless of level and all twice as powerful (both degree and area of effect). It is assumed that the time it takes to "build" this ability is the time it took for Dain to summon as much mental vigor to bring the ring under his control.
Elves- I never minded the Galadriel ring hero. I figured if given a SECOND oppurtunity to take the ring, her resolve would weaken considerably and she would probably give in to the temptation. She was also a student of the maiar, Melian, who undoubtedly taught her much of the deeper arts. I would make some changes however: keep access to her non ring hero powers, in addition to her new ones, and just double their strength, duration and area of effect. Also, once created, the non ring hero version of Galadriel, if already created, disappears, or ideally transforms into the ring hero.
Moria- Sauron. The moria orcs are still thralls of the Dark Lord, and none would have what it takes to control the ring or to stand between Sauron and it.
Mordor- Sauron, obviously.
Isengard- I think its unanimous, people want to see Saruman. He spent much of his time in Middle Earth researching the ring, so it would be pretty obvious he has been training and waiting for the chance to bring it under his control and become the new Dark Lord. As a maiar, he has the mental and spiritual discipline necessary to control it as well. He would become Saruman of Many Colors, with his health, attack strength, all abilities doubled. He would also inspire fear, permanently convert enemy units to his cause and create a map wide storm (cloud darkening, freezing rain, AND lightning....ALL OVER THE MAP with all the perks of all the associated spells)

Thanks for reading.

#329 mysuitisnotblack

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 09:47 PM

What about
Men of the West: Denethor
Elves (or whatever you are going to call them): Galadriel (realistically I dont think that any elf would take the ring for himself/herself so she will have to do)
Erebor: Thorin (the movies and books said the dwarves were immune to the Rings)
Isengard: Saruman super upgraded and with a new skin (but I thnk that Saruman the Many Colored would look to much like a robed hippie with a staff)
Mordor: Sauron
Moria: Balrog (too cool) or the red dragon in the Hobbit
Men of the East: Maybe some super Mumak rider/ wizard with a super Mumakil
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#330 myster

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:40 PM

Men of the West: Gandalf(I know that he was too scared to take the ring, but i remember from the books that he also imagined what he would become with it) -> in this way, everyone has a ''ring-hero'', and not production alterations only..
Elves: Galadriel -> reasons of Grubbo
Dwarves: king Dain -> reasons of Grubbo
Isengard: Saruman -> reasons of grubbo
MotE: Prince of Harad, he would become somewhat the same as the nazgul...
Mordor: Sauron, ovbiously
Moria: depends, dunno yet... i agree with grubbo that each goblin would become the same as gollem if they used the ring. But i dunno what else..

#331 Guest_Jonasking_*

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 03:18 PM

Men of the West: Gandalf(I know that he was too scared to take the ring, but i remember from the books that he also imagined what he would become with it) -> in this way, everyone has a ''ring-hero'', and not production alterations only..
Elves: Galadriel -> reasons of Grubbo
Dwarves: king Dain -> reasons of Grubbo
Isengard: Saruman -> reasons of grubbo
MotE: Prince of Harad, he would become somewhat the same as the nazgul...
Mordor: Sauron, ovbiously
Moria: depends, dunno yet... i agree with grubbo that each goblin would become the same as gollem if they used the ring. But i dunno what else..


Gandalf says to Bilbo: Now its Gandalf the greys time to be evil.
But
MotW: Isildur , I cant be anybody else .
Elves: Galadriel,BTW : OT: Goldir Inglorien like a hero. Not sure that I spelld right.
Dwarwes : Tom Bombadill , "You are safe in the house of Tom Bombadill" says hes elven wife.
EvilMen: Prince of Harad ( Mahud Chieftain(spelling?)
Mordor: Sauron/Or Sauron , like Annatar that would be cool . I vote for Melkor too , Gothmog the Balrog.
Moria: Sauron , Balrg of Moria .
Isengard : Saruman

#332 Servant of Sauron

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 03:53 PM

Come on guys, surely we can think of suitable ring heroes who aren't dead.

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#333 Caluadan

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 04:22 PM

Yeah...
Dead guys tend to be boring
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#334 Wundai

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 08:27 PM

Aye! Just put in 15 wights and be done with it :rolleyes:
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#335 mike_

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:09 PM

Well, it's realism vs playability really. Due to The Ring's nature, whoever brings it back to their fortress would become the "Ring Hero." Not someone who's been dead for 50 years, not a suped-up evil wizard, but whatever unit or hero that brought the Ring back to their Fortress - except for Mordor. S.E.E. below:
If they (Mordor) managed to retrieve The One Ring, then Sauron would indeed be brought back to power.
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#336 Troll Ranger

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 07:04 AM

I think that whatever unit picks it up should get the powers of the ring, that is increased firepower, maybe a spell or two, that kind of thing. So you need to not only think about what unit initially goes after the ring, but who picks it up as well. Also, if playing an evil player, the unit should be unshrouded to them, to account for Sauron knowing where it is, or the ring trying to make its way back to him. Also evil players should be able to send the ring back to the fortress as usual to summon Sauron. Just tossing the ideas around. ^_^

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#337 Guest_Arthadan_*

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 08:11 AM

Hello all,

First of all, I would like to express my gratitude to all the people who has made posible this wonderful mod because I really enjoy it. So, I would like to make my little contribution with some ideas for Ring heroes:

For Moria I would go for the balrog. If he has killed Frodo and found out the Ring, I'm sure he never have bowed to Sauron (the two of them are fallen Maiar of Aulë, aren't they?)

Boromir for Gondor! As Gandalf was too wise to let himself to be tempted by the One, I would go for the heir of Denethor. The definitive Captain of the White City.

For Dwarves, Dain as propposed before looks great to me.

Saruman is the obvious choice for Isengard (powerful Sorcery there!).

For Mordor, Sauron himself. Maybe all the Nazgûl become stronger when their Master becomes more powerful.

And now the big problem, Elves. Who among the wise Eldar would be fool enough to allow himself to be tempted and corrupted by the One? Who will not destroy it? I proppose if the Elves capture the Ring, they keep it to destroy it when posible. As a result of this test, all Elven heroes become wiser and stronger (as Gandalf the White). They all would have their health, damage and powers increased and maybe Galadriel gains a new power.

For the new faction of evil men, I proppose something original like a Sorcerer or necromancer (permanent fear effect, able to send a host of spirits which will disable structures including towers and catapults and summon a little host of barrow-wights able to cause significant damage to structures and troops alike). Yes, I know you're thinking in a mix of the evil Vizir of "Prince of Persia" (the original!) and the Witch king.


Keep the good work!

#338 ttandchotmail

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:48 AM

G'day to all

I have put a little thought ( not much really ^_^ ) into ring heroes and all that really sat well with me was a timer idea. To stay true to the story and movie having ring heroes for the good factions just seems wrong somehow. Sure it's fun and all but it was all decided by the people that met at rivendell that the ring should be destroyed. The whole war was an effort to stop sauron by destroying the ring.

So my thought was for the good factions to have a timer that counts down when the ring is safe in their fortress to imply that the ring is being sent to be destroyed. If the timer gets to zero then the good faction in control of the ring wins automatically. Now I know that dosn't sound like much fun but given enough of a countdown it might prove to be a better option to using the good ring heroes. And of course if a bad faction gain the ring they can purchase sauron.

Could be yet another crazy idea but it's my two cents worth :p
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#339 zachdaddy_3000

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:13 PM

G' Day, TT. I actually agree wholeheartedly with you. I mentioned that very same idea a few pages back, and I think that's what Naz was going for, along with giving the Good side a bonus of some kind.
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#340 Guest_Arthadan_*

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:42 PM

G' Day, TT. I actually agree wholeheartedly with you. I mentioned that very same idea a few pages back, and I think that's what Naz was going for, along with giving the Good side a bonus of some kind.


But Isildur did keep the Ring and Boromir was tempted to do so!

What about this?:

- A good faction may keeps the Ring in their fortress, preventing the bad guys for taking it and grant them some kind of bonus (perhaps the evil creatures feel attracted to it and pay less attention to the fight).

- But Dwarves (Dain) and Men (Boromir) have a second option: They may give the Ring to their Ring heroes (if they are already in game, they go to the fortress to take the Ring or they can take it directly after killing Gollum. If they are not in game, you can create them only without the Ring and then make them enter again to the Fortress for taking it).

Anyway, when they get the Ring they gain special powers, but the more they use them, the more corruption they gain until they become the same evil they were fighting (that is, the other player gains control over them). You still can use their "innate" powers as increased health, damaged and so but when the hero uses the ring (and it must grants power of evil such fear, destruction or power over others), he becomes more and more corrupted. For Elves see my previous post.

- Evil factions get no bonus if they keep the Ring and have expensive Ring-heroes (when you recruit Saruman the Ring hero, the other one disappears and is available no more (maybe if normal Saruman is in game, Saruman the Ring hero could be cheaper. The rest can be only recruited when the Ring is inside the Fortress).

And could be interesting that when a Ring hero is killed (is that ever happens!) he drops the Ring on the battlefield, just like Gollum.




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