873 replies to this topic

[Strider]

This might fall under the category of a mapper but could it be changed so that when you start a match your fortress points towards the center of the map like in BFME1?

[Nazgûl]

We will try to make the AI build bigger armies...
But rotating the fortress wont be possible since they're all (the bases) build a certain way in WorldBuilder :/

[Lord of Mordor]

The changes to the arrows sound like a dream come true I always wanted some more archer realism in Bfme... (actually, I'd like to have that in ALL RTS - there are really few of them who actually care about arrow physics) I'm really looking forward to see that in-game.

Edited by Lord of Mordor, 10 July 2007 - 09:31 PM.

[Harad King]

Goblins could have goblin warg riders and spider riders removed

Haradrim could have a toggle of spear and bow and Ithilien rangers should have a toggle of bow and sword

Special extended edition mod rocks

Edited by harad king, 10 July 2007 - 10:11 PM.

[Garrison Nomad]

umm...yeah. Check out what they're already doing...but i like the haradrim idea.

[astrman]

well wont be able to get game for 2 weeks =( but i did some testing on my xbox Ii hope its the same i want to help you guys =)* and i had legolas and thranduill pretty far apart like legolas faced the right corner and thranduill faced the left corner... and they both still fired at the same guy! what i'm thinking is maybe you can switch the code for thranduill so he shoots at the opposite side of the batalion... not the back but the right or the left

[Nazgûl]

v v v

Yes, I agree (to the shooting the same target). Is there anyway to fix that. For any hero, actually. They always turn to the same spot in a battilion, melee or ranged, and try to attack the same thing.

You will be thrilled to hear that the whole setup of arrow and artillery fire has been reworked extensively. Took me about 3 weeks to go through the whole of weapon.ini.

Archers will have a fixed miss ratio (depending on troop qualitiy). The arrows will scatter within a fixed radius (depending on tq as well). They will also NOT follow targets like a heat seeking missile anymore if they actually scored a hit. Only hobbits and artillery had this in their weapons code until now. Furthermore, if they hit another target by chance, it will take damage, even if an allied object. Faster moving objects now have a better chance of evading hits. Large groups will almost always be hit, it's just a matter of which member gets it, hehe.

For Heroes i left it the way it was (100% hitchance, HitStoreTarget = yes).
The thing about everyone targeting the same object has to do with the fact that they attack the closest target indeed. I can't change that, only their accuracy and scatter radius.

Artillery has a much more pronounced and random scatter factor introduced (1.06 already had it, but Mark's Mod didn't, so i copied the codes and made some additional alterations)

Logic Fire (fire munitions setting off area fire) is also quite a bit more pronounced than before. Stray arrows (of which there are now quite a lot) tend to cause grass and trees to burn. Not on all maps though. Not all tree and shrubbery objects used on maps carry a FlammableUpdate and i'm afraid EA did not use logic when distributing those traits. To be fixed at a later date.

So, as you can see, parts of your concerns have been adequately addressed. In Beta 4.5.

^ ^ ^

[Lord of Mordor]

Now that arrows have accuracy rating and stuff, I think it would be pretty neat to add different kinds of Arrow Upgrades for each faction... (since fire arrows are not entirely realistic anyway - they were not used in "normal" combat like they are in Bfme, they were used to set buildings on fire)

For example, Elves get blessed bows or something like that to increase their accuracy, men get longbows to increase their range, Mordor gets spiked arrows to increase their damage, Goblins get permanently poisoned arrows, Uruks get bows that increase their firing rate, and Men of Dale get Knockback arrows. (Just examples of what kind of different upgrades there could be) Fire arrows would be automatically used against buildings.

I think this would add a nice additional element of diversity between the different factions

[Gherrick]

Rohan - Green Arrows(or Rohan Arrows just green in colour)
Gondor - Red Arrows(just powerfuller than normal- in books Gondor sent emissary with Red Arrow to Rohan)
Dale - Black Arrows
Harad - Barbed Arrows(red in colour-knocks back)
Elves- Silverthorne Arrows(blue/silver in colour)
Mordor - Spiked Arrows(red in colour- gives damage like poison)
Goblins- Poison Arrows(green in colour- gives damage after attack)
Isengard - Heavy Arrows(implies to xbowmen too- gives dark blue arrows which knockback)

[Mordor Slayer]

I really like that idea, but not the thing about the different colours... That would be weird ingame I guess...

[Lord of Mordor]

I'd do it like that:

-Elves: Blessed Bows, Bows of the Noldor, Bows of the Ancestors or something like that ^^ The Bows become white or silver, and the arrows either don't change or the they get a subtle white glow. It would increase their accuracy.

-Men: Well, I'd use longbows for them, but you had to change their model for that... Maybe just longer arrows? Or darker colored arrows? Longbows would give increased range. No green or red arrows for men, please

-Mordor: Barbed arrows, as he said, which would have that red FX and just increase damage.

-Goblins: Like he said, green poison FX.

-Isengard: Difficult here... before SEE, they only had crossbows, so you could make some sort of improved crossbows upgrade which colours the crossbows in black or dark metal and increases their firing rate, but that wouldn't logically work with bows. Maybe, as he said, knockback arrows for Isengard. A blue FX would look weird for Isengard, though... (You could also make one upgrade for crossbows and another one for bows)

-Dale: If Isengards gets knockback, they could get better firing rate. (I can't remember what black arrows do in-game... didn't they cause fear? I don't think that would be situable as a normal upgrade)

Edited by Lord of Mordor, 11 July 2007 - 05:15 PM.

[Nazgûl]

Quick reply:

I highly doubt that Sûl would liket to do even MORE work to the arrows at this stage

What he IS doing is removing the Fire Arrow upgrade for Goblins and making it into an ability sort of like the Black Arrows, Barbed Arrows things. And instead the Gobs wil get Poison Arrows when upgrading the arrow technology =)

We'll see what happens to the other factions, but we talked about having all Fire Arrows be abilities with reload time, just like that ^

[Sûlherokhh]

As Naz already mentioned. But i really like the ideas. It would be especially nice to have quite different arrow upgrades, and FX as well. Same for melee weapons i must add.

[Harad King]

Is the corsair hero really going be called captain jackson I don't think the name fits very well and the Mahuds could be called Mumak riders because not every mumak riders was called mahud

Edited by harad king, 12 July 2007 - 05:19 PM.

[Lauri]

a mahud is a mumakils rider, their not captains

[Garrison Nomad]

and go read about Mr. Jackson. He's a cameo character, not a realistic lotR (wow...oxymoron) character. Besides, Most think he's cool, and Naz's mod is a tribute to him.

[Harad King]

are spider riders going to be removed and is mordor going to get new heros like gorbag or mollock

Edited by harad king, 11 July 2007 - 09:54 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

Check the ToDo-List every once in a while (1st post).

[Nazgûl]

Is the corsair hero really going be called captain jackson I don't think the name fits very well and Legolas could get a cape and a knife toogle to make him look more like the movies the Mahuds could be called Mumak captains because not every mumak captain was called mahud

http://us.games-work...mumak_mahud.htm

Check the ToDo-List every once in a while (1st post).

Yes please do that ^

[Sûlherokhh]

I have to intercede on the Mahûd's behalf. I am not sure wether Tolkien invented the word or GamesWorkshop/PeterJackson and what exactly they were used for. For my intercession i quote from an article of wikipedia.org (yes i know, they are not exactly reliable either, but at least this reference supports what i have learned of (indian) elephant riders so far:

Wikipedia on War Elephants (click me)

And here the part that contained the 'mahûd' thing:

Tactical use

There were plenty of military purposes for which elephants could be used. As enormous animals, they could carry heavy cargoes and provided a useful means of transport before mechanized vehicles would render them practically obsolete in that respect. In battle, war elephants were usually deployed in the centre of the line, where they could be useful to prevent a charge or start one of their own.

During World War I, elephants pulled heavy equipment. This one worked in a munitions yard in Sheffield.

An elephant charge can reach about 30 km/h (20 mi/h), and unlike horse cavalry, could not be easily stopped by an infantry line setting spears. Its power was based on pure force: crashing into an enemy line, trampling and swinging its tusks. Those men who were not crushed were at least knocked aside or forced back. Moreover, the terror elephants could inspire against an enemy not used to fighting them (even the very disciplined Romans) could cause them to break and run just on the charge's momentum alone. Horse cavalry were not safe either, because horses unaccustomed to the smell of elephants panicked easily. The elephants' thick hide made them extremely difficult to kill or neutralize in any way, and their sheer height and mass offered considerable protection for their riders. Besides charging, the elephants maintained a vital role in providing a stable and a safe platform for archers to fire arrows in the middle of the battlefield, from where more targets could be seen and engaged. The elephant mahouts, and riders in the elephant carriages carried bows and arrows to attack oncoming cavalry and infantry and also carried long spears for close quarters combat. The archery evolved into more advanced weapons, and several Khmer and Indian kings have utilized giant crossbow platforms (similar to the Ballista) to fire long armor piercing shafts to kill other enemy War Elephants and chariots/cavalry. The late 1500s also saw the use of culverin on elephants, but the onset of gunpowder made the large and relatively slow war elephants obsolete.

A king chess piece. Note the two culverins on the back of this war elephant.

However, they also had a tendency to panic themselves: after sustaining moderate wounds or when their driver was killed, they would run amok, indiscriminately causing casualties as they sought escape. Their panicked retreat could inflict heavy losses on either side. Experienced Roman infantry often tried to sever their trunks, causing an instant panic, and hopefully causing the elephant to flee back into its own lines. Fast skirmishers armed with javelins were also used to drive them away, as javelins and similar weapons could madden an elephant. The cavalry sport of tent pegging grew out of training regimens for horse mounted cavaliers to incapacitate or turn back war elephants.

mahout = steersman

Sûl.

Either way. The trained Mûmak 'driver' would bear 'Mahûd' as part of his name, right?